Skip to content 12/23/2025 For Some People, Celebrating Christmas Involves the Threat of Arrest and Persecution Dec 23 · 54 min ...more
12/23/2025 For Some People, Celebrating Christmas Involves the Threat of Arrest and Persecution
December 23, 2025 · 54 min
Israel anticipates possible Iranian hostilities as Nigeria seeks peace during the holidays. At home, as some Christians share their faith at Christmas, others face the threat of arrest for doing so.
Series Washington Watch with Tony Perkins - Audio
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December 23, 2025 · 54 min · Washington Watch with Tony Perkins - Audio
Israel anticipates possible Iranian hostilities as Nigeria seeks peace during the holidays. At home, as some Christians share their faith at Christmas, others face the threat of arrest for doing so. ...more Show the full description Show less Israel anticipates possible Iranian hostilities as Nigeria seeks peace during the holidays. At home, as some Christians share their faith at Christmas, others face the threat of arrest for doing so.
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In this video 0:00 Geopolitical Tensions and Christian Persecution Abroad14:00 Celebrating Christmas Amid Domestic Challenges24:33 Sharing the Gospel with Loved Ones This Christmas33:52 Reflecting on 2025: Top Stories from a Biblical Lens
Geopolitical Tensions and Christian Persecution Abroad 0:01 From the heart of our nation's capital in Washington, DC, bringing compelling interviews, insightful analysis, taking you beyond the headlines and sound bites into conversations with our nation's leaders and0:12 newsmakers, all from a biblical world view. Sitting in for Tony is today's host, Jody Heise.0:20 Well, good afternoon. Welcome to this December 20 third edition of Washington Watch. Hope you are having already a fantastic Christmas week. I'm Jody Heise, your host today. I'm a senior fellow0:32 here at the Family Research Council and an honor today to be sitting in for Tony. Alright. Coming up on this edition of Washington Watch, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is preparing0:44 for his upcoming meeting with President Trump here in the United States. That is expected to take place early next week. And all that happening while recent missile exercises0:57 are taking place in Iran, and those, exercises have raised some concern of a possible attack on Israel. But still, the top agenda when the prime minister comes1:08 here is the second phase of president Trump's Gaza peace plan.1:13 Our basic expectations from Iran have not changed. The level of enrichment, and the other activities, the ending of the proxy wars against us, that has not changed. And I don't think it's changed in1:25 the, in the I know it's not changed on the American position. So, obviously, it will become it will be an item in our discussions, but I have to tell you that I think the focus will be, on
1:37 Gaza, the next stage, and on other, issues that, engages from the other
1:47 h's.
1:48 That was prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu at a press conference yesterday. And by the way, when he says the other h's, he's referring to Hamas, to Hezbollah, and to the Houthis in
1:59 Yemen, all of whom pose a threat to Israel of as well as Iran, of course. But, I'll I'll discuss this when I'm joined here in just a few
2:11 moments by Texas congressman Keith Self, who's a member of the foreign affairs committee. He'll also share with us about a recent trip he had to Nigeria, which continues to draw attention
2:23 over the dire situations for Christians there. Meanwhile, here in the United States, we continue to see different types of attacks on Christians, especially right now during the Christmas
2:35 time. For example, in Tucson, Arizona, a resident was threatened with arrest after he and a group of friends simply attempted to share their Christian beliefs at a Christmas festival.
2:48 So you have to ask, is sharing the true reason for Christmas at a Christmas festival a potential arrestable offense. Well, we'll discuss that later with Mike
3:00 Berry, First Liberty Institute. And speaking of sharing your faith during the Christmas season, how is the best way to share your faith with non Christian family
3:11 members and friends during this Christmas season? Well, we'll discuss this when I'm joined by doctor John Sorensen, who is the president of evangelism explosion. And then also on the program today, I'll
3:23 be joined by our panel from right here at the Washington stand to take a look at the past year and discuss what were some of the top stories in 20 25. So as always, we've got a
3:35 lot coming your way over the next hour. You don't want to miss any part of it, but if you do, of course, our website is Tony Perkins dot com. I encourage you to, of course, visit that website where you can find
3:47 not only this, but other archive programs and a host of resources as well. I also want to encourage you as we enter into a new year. You want to focus
4:00 attention on developing a deeper and stronger, more solid biblical worldview. And we encourage you to join us here at FRC for our stand on the word plan. It's a 2 year
4:12 chronological journey through the Bible. And it will only take you about 10 or 15 minutes a day. But in so doing, your life can be transformed by getting into God's word and
4:23 joining us. You're gonna love it. For more details, visit f r c dot org slash bible or simply text the word Bible to 6 7 7 4
4:35 2. Alright. Now let's jump into our first news item for the day. As I mentioned a few moments ago, there's been some concern over a possible Iranian missile strike
4:47 against Israel. This is all coming about amid reports of some missile exercises in several cities yesterday by the, Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard.
4:59 However, while Israel certainly is keeping a close watch on Iran, the top focus of the Jewish nation is reportedly the second phase of its ceasefire agreement
5:11 with Hamas. Now that is expected to be a top conversation when Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu visits the United States and visits President Trump early next
5:23 week. So what might come out of that meeting? Well, joining me now to talk about this and more is Congressman Keith self. He serves on several committees, including the Foreign Affairs Committee.
5:35 He also faithfully served our country for 25 years in the army before retiring with the rank of Lieutenant Colonel. He represents the third congressional district of Texas.
5:47 Congressman himself always always an honor to have you join us on Washington Watch. Welcome back to America, and welcome back to Washington Watch.
5:57 Thank you so much, Jody. Great to be with you.
6:00 Alright. I do wanna get, to your, trip to Nigeria. But before we get there, let's talk about Iran and, what kind of threat do you think that they potentially really pose to Israel?
6:12 Are they as strong as they were, before the summer, for example?
6:18 Well, make no mistake about it, Tony. The Iran is Tony, excuse me, Jody. Iran is rearming with the help of China and the axis of evil. We know that. So, yes,
6:30 exercises make sense because they've now got to rearm. They've got to refit. And, yes, the threat is growing from Iran again because as they rearm, they certainly will, will pose the threat that they always
6:42 have and will continue to have. Iran has laid no none of their dreams aside.
6:49 So, obviously, Israel is not going to nor can they afford to take any chances with this. I mean, they they certainly lower the the the tolerance bar after our October seventh attacks.
7:01 But, Israel has been experiencing at least for the last couple of months, a degree of peace, to some extent, but they are certainly not out of the woods.
7:13 Are you saying that that, is an increasing threat for them right now with the help of China and maybe others?
7:21 Abs absolutely, Jody. Their neighbors have not laid aside their dreams, as I said, of, doing away with, Israel as a state. They don't believe that Israel has the right to exist as a
7:33 sovereign state, and their stated goal, no matter how time how many times we attack them, their stated goal will continue to be, to eliminate the state of Israel from the face
7:45 of the earth.
7:47 Wow. So what are you anticipating the meeting next week to primarily consist of between Benjamin Netanyahu and president Trump?
7:56 Well, as, the prime minister said, I think Gaza will take up most of it because how are we moving forward in Gaza? And again, Hamas is rearming. In fact, they've they have declined to
8:07 disarm. So they are rebuilding as well. So when you look at Iran, when you look at Hamas, the threat is growing, because they are rebuilding, which they always do when they
8:19 when they are taken down a notch. So I think that Gaza will be very important both to president Trump and the prime prime minister Netanyahu because if Hamas refuses to
8:31 disarm, which they have heretofore, that is I don't know how the process moves forward until Hamas agrees to, and I don't expect them to do that.
8:42 Yeah. That's a really good point because, I mean, Hamas has yet to even return the the body of the last deceased hostage. And, of course, many people are out there saying that that is a tactic, for them to buy more
8:54 time, so to speak, because turning over that body would by what you just mentioned, it would mean moving into the second phase of this piece still, which would require them to disarm. So
9:06 how concerned are you about, what Hamas may be doing right now with all of this?
9:12 On this show before, Jody, I have said, Hamas will rebuild. The threat continues. Israel will have to continue to defend itself in the wake of the rebuilding, of the proxies or that surround it and
9:24 Iran and certainly the help from China. So this is nothing new. It is to be expected. We just need to continue to support Israel as they continue to defend their right to
9:36 exist against their neighbors.
9:39 Well, it's not only Israel is making news as I mentioned, with with you coming in here. You just returned from another part of the world from Nigeria. And tell us about your
9:51 trip. What you did there, what you saw, what you heard.
9:55 It was a very quick trip. We were on the ground for 29 hours. We met with senior government officials. We met with the, national security adviser, with the minister of defense, with the attorney
10:07 general to express our concerns on the lack of government action against the, the killings of Christians in Nigeria. President Trump's redesignation of Nigeria as
10:19 a country of particular concern and a congressional delegation in early December, plus our trip, this over the weekend, have all brought more attention to Nigeria. And And what we're hearing from
10:31 people is the government is starting to pay attention. They're starting to make progress. We need to watch it. We need to continue. And then we attended a church service of the Christian reformed church. It was
10:42 a wonderful service. In fact, the minister of defense, who is a committed Christian, went with us and made remarks to the church. I think that was a really important service. 5,
10:54 4 congressmen were there, and the minister of defense, Jody, I can't tell you how important I think that was. And frankly, it was 1 of our major, intentions in the trip is to go to a
11:06 service. Because Christmas time historically for several years now has been very dangerous for Christians because the Islamic militants take the crisp the Christmas, season as an
11:18 opportunity to kill Christians. So it was important we were there just 3 days before Christmas.
11:24 I totally agree. Totally agree with that. And and hats off to you and the others for going. There's there there obviously has been a change in how the US, the media, and a host of others are handling Nigeria as
11:35 this becomes more and more a talking point around the world. And what do you think? Are we entering into a a turning point? Do you think is there a
11:47 path this positive that Nigeria is going to step in and start protecting Christians?
11:54 Well, they they're starting to understand. They cannot allow Boko Haram, ISIS West Africa, the Fulani militants to simply, destroy Christian churches and kill Christians
12:06 at will. They know that. So how are they going to? Now we're providing them some intelligence. They do the attacks, but we're now providing them some intelligence. If they make good use of that, then I'll think they'll
12:18 make progress. But the most important thing is that the Nigerian government now understands they have to take this seriously. And frankly, Nigeria is the largest country in Africa by population.
12:29 240000000 people. This is a major player in Africa. We have got to get Nigeria right. We've got to defeat the, Boko Haram in the northeast, not we. Nigeria
12:41 needs to defeat Boko Haram in the, northeast and in the middle belt, where the Fulani militants are killing Christians. They've gotta get a handle on this, and we emphasize that to them.
12:54 We 30 seconds real quickly. How would you encourage our viewers and listeners to be praying for this situation and Christians in Nigeria?
13:03 Well, pray that the government starts to protect its citizens. Here in the United States, we expect the first job of our government is to protect the citizens and our rights. The Nigerian government needs to step up
13:15 and do that as well, protect all of their citizens. Now, when you look at the percentages, there's a fairly close relationship. A small majority of Nigeria is Muslim, but they have a
13:27 very significant Christian population. They need to protect the Christians as well. So that's how I would ask you to pray. Pray that the government that the Lord speaks to the government, because the minister of
13:38 defense, as I said, is a committed Christian. He was taking notes from his own Bible at that service. Pray that he has
13:45 Texas congressman Keith Self, we're gonna we've gotta end it right there. Merry Christmas to you, my friend. Thank you for joining us on Washington Watch. Alright. Coming up, we've got some important news about
13:57 Grinches and those who are dealing with it. Stay tuned.
Celebrating Christmas Amid Domestic Challenges
14:01 Hello. I'm Tony Perkins, and I wanna invite you to join me for Stand on the Word, a daily journey through the bible, 10 to 15 minutes a day. That's all it takes. And in no time, you'll have finished the entire bible. And
14:12 along the way, we'll learn how to apply God's truths to the world in which we live. As As we're about to start a new year and as our nation is about to celebrate 2 50 years, there's never been a better time for a fresh
14:24 start in the word of God. To join us, text bible to 6 7 7 4 2. That's bible to 6 7 7 4 2. Family Research Council, along with congressional
14:36 friends of FRC, present the Christmas story, a reading from the gospel of Luke. And it came to pass in those days that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus
14:47 that all the world should be taxed.
14:49 And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.
14:53 And all went to be taxed everyone into his own city.
14:57 And Joseph also went up from Galilee out of the city of Nazareth into Judea.
15:01 Unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem.
15:05 Because he was of the house and of the lineage of David, to be taxed with Mary as a spouse's wife, being great with child.
15:11 And so it was that while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
15:17 And she brought forth her firstborn son and wrapped him in swaddling clothes and laid him in a manger.
15:23 Because there was no room for them in the end.
15:27 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the fields keeping watch over their flock by night.
15:32 And lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shown around about them, and they were sore afraid.
15:39 And the angel said unto them, fear not, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy.
15:44 Which shall be unto all people.
15:46 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a savior, which is Christ the Lord.
15:52 And this shall be a sign unto you. You should find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
15:59 And suddenly, there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host.
16:03 Praising God and saying glory to God in the highest and on earth, peace, goodwill toward men.
16:10 And it came to pass as the angels were gone away from them into heaven.
16:14 The shepherd said to 1 another.
16:16 Let us now go even in into Bethlehem and see this thing which has come to pass.
16:20 Which the Lord hath made known unto us. And they came with haste
16:24 And found Mary and Joseph and the babe lying in a manger.
16:29 And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child.
16:34 And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds.
16:39 But Mary kept all these things and pondered them in our heart.
16:42 And the shepherds returned glorifying and praising God.
16:46 For all the things that they had heard and seen as it was told unto them.
16:51 Merry Christmas.
16:52 Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas from FRC.
17:03 Welcome back to Washington Watch. Good afternoon. I'm Jody Heise. I'm honored to be filling in today for Tony, and thank you so much for joining us on this special week of Christmas. Well,
17:15 with, every Christmas, I suppose there comes certain Grinch's who are out there getting angry about public nativity scenes and other Christmas displays that remind us of the true
17:26 reason of Christmas, which is Jesus. Well, this year, there's no exception. Among the Grinch's that we have this year are government officials in the city of Tucson, Arizona. Officials there
17:38 threatened a resident with arrest after he and a group of friends attempted to share their Christian faith at a Christmas festival. So is sharing the true reason for
17:50 Christmas at a Christmas festival an arrestable offense? Well, joining me to share his client's story is Mike Berry. He's executive director ex of external affairs and senior
18:02 counsel at First Liberty Institute. Mike, welcome back to Washington Watch. Always great to have you.
18:09 Thanks for having me. It's great to be back on.
18:12 Well, this sounds like quite a bizarre story. Why don't you kinda share with us how this situation in Tucson unfolded?
18:21 Well, it starts with First Liberty's client, David Hoffman, and his friends, who as you said, Jody, they just wanted to attend this, what's called a a festival of lights in an area of Tucson,
18:33 and it's open to the public. There's no charge for admission. Anybody can come and go as they please. That is unless you are there to share your religious beliefs as David Hoffman and his friends wanted to
18:45 do. And as you pointed out, you would think that this would be something that would be acceptable and welcome when it comes to the real reason for the season, as we say, which is, the birth of
18:57 Jesus Christ. And and David Hoffman and his friends wanted to simply share that message, but they were told that they couldn't do that. And I can think of few things that are more unconstitutional and un American, during
19:09 the the Christmas season than to tell somebody that they can't even share their religious beliefs and their faith, about the birth of Jesus Christ during the very holiday that we observe
19:21 the birth of Christ on. So, First Liberty Institute is is we are going to send a a demand letter to the city of Tucson, and we're going to demand that they allow
19:33 mister Hoffman and his friends to continue to do what the constitution has always protected their right to do.
19:40 And, well, thank you for doing that, Mike. We that was 1 reason. We we just love you guys at First Liberty. But what what is going through the minds of these, officials in Tucson? Did they
19:52 really think that sharing the true purpose and reason of Christmas is an arrestable offense there in Tucson?
20:03 I certainly hope that's not what they think. And if it is, they need to, you know, consult their attorneys or find a new attorney, because they need to take out the constitution, dust it off, and and read it every once
20:14 in a while. Clearly, when when American citizens engage in religious speech, particularly in a public place like this, in a public setting, it's doubly protected. It's protected under the free speech
20:26 clause, and it's also protected under the free exercise clause of the first amendment. So the city officials, have no right to deny mister Hoffman's ability to do this, and they especially have no right
20:38 to threaten him and his friends with arrest or any other type of punishment for simply doing what Americans have always had the right to do in this country, which is to live out their faith openly and freely, especially
20:49 in public places. Again, it's important to recognize that this is an open festival. There's no charge for admission. Anybody is free to come and go as they please. You and I could go there, presumably, Jody, unless we
21:01 were there to, I guess, share our religious beliefs. But, and and and so this this has no place in America.
21:08 So what is First Liberty asking of the city? What are what are you, requiring or calling on them to do to right this wrong?
21:18 Well, put simply, we're asking them and demanding that they change their policy or at the very least allow, our client and his friends to be able to do this, this during this Christmas season.
21:30 And if they're not willing to do that, then, you know, we're we're not taking anything off the table. We're really ready to take the next steps, and take legal action if necessary. Certainly, we hope it doesn't come to
21:41 that, but First Liberty has a long and established track record of being able to do that and doing so successfully if necessary. In fact, we just had a case at the US Supreme Court a couple weeks ago on a very similar
21:53 issue where a, a citizen of of Brandon, Mississippi, simply wanted to share his beliefs at a public festival and was told that he couldn't do that, and we had to take that case all the way to the US Supreme
22:05 Court. So this isn't happening just in Tucson, Arizona. It's happening across the country, and it's important that we, not just as First Liberty Institute, but as American citizens, we gotta stand up for our rights.
22:16 That's the fastest way to lose our freedoms in this country is for American citizens to to cower and fear when the government tells you no. And instead, we've gotta stand up for our rights. We've gotta restore faith in
22:28 America, and so we're proud to stand with our clients, here in in Tucson as well as in Brandon, Mississippi.
22:35 And elsewhere across the country. Is this is this type of problem increasing across the country, from what you you were seeing right now?
22:44 Yeah. It's a great question. I think it's something that's always been going on, but what I think is as we've had more and more good positive religious liberty decisions come down from the Supreme Court in recent
22:56 years, I think Americans are starting to wake up. Their eyes are being opened, and they're realizing, wait a minute. We actually do have a right to live out our faith openly. Whether you're a football coach like coach
23:07 Kennedy, whether you're a a street preacher like Gabriel Olivier in in Brandon, Mississippi, or whether you're like David Hoffman in Tucson, Arizona who simply wants to share his faith out in his community, I think
23:18 Americans are starting to realize, we've been, as as especially as believers, I think, we've been a little bit apathetic about our freedoms and our rights. And so I think part of it is
23:31 it's things like this have always been going on. I think the reason we're seeing more flashpoints now, Jody, is because I think Americans are starting to wake up and and to say, wait a second. We need to assert our
23:41 rights and our freedoms. Otherwise, we lose them. President Reagan was the 1 that said freedom is never more than 1 generation away from extinction. We don't pass it on in the bloodline. It's gotta be fought for and
23:50 protected.
23:51 Absolutely. So for for Christians who may be facing some issues over, Christmas or beyond Christmas for that reason, how can people get in touch with First Liberty?
24:02 Well, it's easy. Just go to first liberty dot org. That's first liberty dot o r g. You can learn about, David Hoffman's case, Gabriel Olivia's case. Or if you're having issues of your own, you can reach out to us there,
24:13 and we're happy to take a look and see if we can get involved and and help you and your community.
24:19 Well, we thank God for First Liberty and all the incredible work that you do. And, Mike, Barry, we thank you for joining us today on Washington Watch, wishing you and your family the best of Christmases.
24:31 Thank you, and Merry Christmas to all of you.Show more
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