Skip to content Finding Courage When You Feel Discouraged: Standing Strong in Changing Times, Ep. 265 Oct 27 · 33 min ...more
Finding Courage When You Feel Discouraged: Standing Strong in Changing Times, Ep. 265
October 27, 2025 · 33 min
In this powerful episode of The Built Different Podcast, recorded backstage at the Refuel Conference at Thomas Road Baptist Church, Dr. Zach Clinton and cohost Joshua Broome sit down with Pastor Gary Hamrick — Senior Pastor of Cornerstone Chapel in Leesburg, Virginia. Gary has faithfully led Cornerstone from a small group of believers to a thriving congregation of thousands. His ministry sits at a unique cultural crossroads, just outside Washington, D.C., giving him a front-row seat to the intersection of faith, culture, and government. Over the years, Gary has become a trusted voice on religious liberty, biblical truth, and courageous leadership in a rapidly shifting cultural landscape. In this conversation, Gary shares his heart for revival and renewal, unpacking why gatherings like Refuel are vital for weary ministry leaders. He offers insight into what he’s seeing in the flock — from mental health struggles and spiritual discouragement to growing cultural hostility toward Christianity — and provides deeply biblical encouragement for overcoming discouragement in ministry through Psalm 42. His voice is both a pastoral encouragement and a prophetic challenge for the Church to rise with courage and conviction in this cultural moment. Mentioned in this episode: Visit Cornerstone Chapel: https://cornerstonechapel.net/ Watch some of Gary’s Sermons: https://cornerstonechapel.net/teachings/teaching-library/ Feeling Downcast? Get Help Today: https://christiancareconnect.com/ Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.
Series The Built Different Podcast with Zach Clinton October 27, 2025 · 33 min · The Built Different Podcast with Zach Clinton
In this powerful episode of The Built Different Podcast, recorded backstage at the Refuel Conference at Thomas Road Baptist Church, Dr. Zach Clinton and cohost Joshua Broome sit down with Pastor Gary Hamrick — Senior Pastor of Cornerstone Chapel in Leesburg, Virginia. Gary has faithfully led Cornerstone from a small group of believers to a thriving congregation of thousands. His ministry sits at a unique cultural crossroads, just outside Washington, D.C., giving him a front-row seat to the intersection of faith, culture, and government. Over the years, Gary has become a trusted voice on religious liberty, biblical truth, and courageous leadership in a rapidly shifting cultural landscape. In this conversation, Gary shares his heart for revival and renewal, unpacking why gatherings like Refuel are vital for weary ministry leaders. He offers insight into what he’s seeing in the flock — from mental health struggles and spiritual discouragement to growing cultural hostility toward Christianity — and provides deeply biblical encouragement for overcoming discouragement in ministry through Psalm 42. His voice is both a pastoral encouragement and a prophetic challenge for the Church to rise with courage and conviction in this cultural moment. Mentioned in this episode: Visit Cornerstone Chapel: https://cornerstonechapel.net/ Watch some of Gary’s Sermons: https://cornerstonechapel.net/teachings/teaching-library/ Feeling Downcast? Get Help Today: https://christiancareconnect.com/ Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us. ...more Show the full description Show less In this powerful episode of The Built Different Podcast, recorded backstage at the Refuel Conference at Thomas Road Baptist Church, Dr. Zach Clinton and cohost Joshua Broome sit down with Pastor Gary Hamrick — Senior Pastor of Cornerstone Chapel in Leesburg, Virginia. Gary has faithfully led Cornerstone from a small group of believers to a thriving congregation of thousands. His ministry sits at a unique cultural crossroads, just outside Washington, D.C., giving him a front-row seat to the intersection of faith, culture, and government. Over the years, Gary has become a trusted voice on religious liberty, biblical truth, and courageous leadership in a rapidly shifting cultural landscape. In this conversation, Gary shares his heart for revival and renewal, unpacking why gatherings like Refuel are vital for weary ministry leaders. He offers insight into what he’s seeing in the flock — from mental health struggles and spiritual discouragement to growing cultural hostility toward Christianity — and provides deeply biblical encouragement for overcoming discouragement in ministry through Psalm 42. His voice is both a pastoral encouragement and a prophetic challenge for the Church to rise with courage and conviction in this cultural moment. Mentioned in this episode: Visit Cornerstone Chapel: https://cornerstonechapel.net/ Watch some of Gary’s Sermons: https://cornerstonechapel.net/teachings/teaching-library/ Feeling Downcast? Get Help Today: https://christiancareconnect.com/ Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.
Series The Built Different Podcast with Zach Clinton
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M.A. in Clinical Mental Health Counseling, doctoral student in Clinical Psychology. Host of ‘The Built Different Podcast’ with guests like Kirk Cousins, Albert
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0:02 Life audio.0:03 Built Different is a production of the American Association of Christian Counselors. To support this podcast and learn how you can help us to promote all our biblical content, spread the gospel, and provide mental health0:13 resources and training to people everywhere, just go to a a c c foundation dot o r g. Again, that's a a c c foundation dot org.0:23 Looking for a simple way to stay rooted in God's word every day? The daily bible devotion app by Salem Media gives you morning and evening devotionals designed to encourage, inspire, and keep you connected with0:34 scripture. Plus, you'll enjoy daily bible trivia and humor, a fun way to learn and share a smile while growing in your faith. Get the daily bible devotion app for free on both iOS and Android. Start and0:46 end your day with God's word. Search for the daily bible devotion app in the App Store or Google Play Store and download it today.0:57 Welcome to Built Different. I'm Zach Clinton, your host, and each week, I come to you exclusively on the Life Audio podcast network. I'm proud to partner with Life Audio and bring you entertaining, life changing, family1:07 friendly podcasts for a new At Build Different, our mission is to provide encouragement, hope, and challenge to help push you past your limits and reach goals you never thought possible. Colossians 2 verse 6 says, so1:18 then just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, rooted and built up in him. Amen? Now let's roll.1:26 What's going on everybody? And welcome back in to the Built Different podcast where we have real conversations with leaders who are
1:38 shaping culture, standing firm in truth and leading with conviction in a changing world. I'll be your host today, Doctor. Zach Linton, joined by my cohost, who's also my dear friend and author, speaker and
1:50 pastor Joshua Broome. And today's conversation is both timely and vital because we're joined today by pastor Gary Hamrick, senior pastor of Cornerstone Chapel in Leesburg, Virginia,
2:02 a church that has grown from a small group of faithful believers into a thriving congregation of thousands. Gary has become a trusted voice in the national conversation on faith, culture,
2:14 and religious liberty, especially given his close proximity to the hill up there at Washington DC. He's here at the Refuel Conference, a gathering for ministry leaders seeking to be refreshed and equipped in these
2:25 challenging times. It's taking place right here at Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg, Virginia. If you've never been, check out the website, Refuel dot o r g. I promise. If you show up to this free 2 day event, you
2:37 will be educated, you will be equipped, you'll be encouraged, and you will be energized to continue walking in and walking out the calling that God has placed on your life. Today, we're gonna talk about cultural
2:48 pressure. We're gonna talk about standing firm on biblical truth, and we're gonna talk about how the church can lead with both courage and compassion in this season of life. Gary, my friend, thank you so much for joining
2:59 us today.
3:00 Thanks, Zach. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
3:02 Yeah. It's always great to see you. You too, Joshua. And I was just thinking about we were out there listening to the message, and it was an opportunity for people who may have been
3:13 discouraged to be encouraged. And for leaders, why is that so important?
3:18 Yeah. I mean, ministry takes a toll on people, because as I was saying earlier, ministry is 1 of those unique vocations where you are and it's a calling, but you're you're pouring out constantly. And and
3:30 the more you pour out, the more depleted you can become. And then you have your own regular daily issues that hit life like everybody else, and so you add the regular challenges of
3:42 life on top of the fact that you're pouring yourself out constantly to people, and it can become discouraging. We can hit personal walls where we're just like really discouraged in life or in
3:53 ministry, and so I just wanted to, you know, go through Psalm 42 today and encourage the brothers and sisters to keep on trusting the Lord and press on. The Lord knows what we go through, and, he wants to be our
4:04 encourager through it.
4:06 I'm grateful for the word that you delivered because I know it touched our lives. I'm sure it touched the countless lives in that room as well, sir. But I'm just thinking about, it was such a fitting word in knowing the
4:17 times that we live in culturally. Yeah. It's been a tough go.
4:20 Yeah.
4:20 Pastor Gary, the the past couple of years, but especially the past couple of months as of this recording, I mean, a lot has happened. Evil has been on full display. There's a lot of people that are living in fear. You
4:32 being somebody who's leading on the front lines, especially there in DC, sir, what are you seeing and what are you hearing?
4:38 Yeah. Ministry is not for the faint of heart. It used to be it used to be this thing where, you know, people would make a joke like, what do you do besides preach? You know? Like the rest of the week, I golf or go
4:47 fishing, you know, like Right. Like, so ministry used to have this reputation of, well, fun is that? Now ministry has this reputation of, like, how many death threat letters do you get, you know? And and so it's crazy,
4:58 the world in which we're living now, because there's such, well, my opinion, it really is demonic principalities are on the rise at the same time the Holy Spirit is bringing about revival. Well, as
5:10 the Holy Spirit brings about revival, you have demonic principalities that are angry in the supernatural realm, and so guess what? People are being incited to do violent things. We've seen this just with the
5:22 assassination of Charlie Kirk, and we're seeing this kind of vitriol and hatred and animosity like I've never seen before. You know, it used to be people would respectfully say, okay, you're a Christian, I I'm not
5:34 interested, or thanks for the invite to church, but it's not for me. But now there are there's such, like, hatred and animosity that what's happening in the culture now, I think, is a sign of the times.
5:46 Like, we're obviously getting closer to the return of Christ with every day that goes by, but I think more so we're we're seeing these things unfolding in our culture because the Holy Spirit is working, and so
5:57 demonic principalities are working against that, and there's going to be this clash that we're seeing in our culture between good and evil and right and wrong, and we're living in days of Isaiah 5, where Isaiah talked
6:09 about how, woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who substitute light for darkness, bitter for sweet. Like, this is an upside down culture now where people are celebrating things that we used to kind of
6:20 universally, even if people weren't a Christian, universally realize that's not good or that's not right. Now it's being turned upside down. The things that used to be called wrong are now called right, even celebrated,
6:32 and so now you have this clash in the culture of like mindsets and philosophy, not to mention, as I said, the demonic principalities. And so it's just a wild time, but it's also an encouraging time
6:44 because the Lord is on the move.
6:45 Yes, he is.
6:46 Yes, he is. Like you said, revival is it's going across this land. I think it's going across the globe. And you talk about culture and the cultural moment we find ourselves, and it's a time of great confusion. But I also
6:57 think it's a time where a lot of people are trying to cancel the move of God. They're trying to silence the voices that are willing to stand on biblical truth and the foundation that I know you've built your life on
7:08 trying to build this ministry for the sake of the kingdom. And I wanna talk to you for a moment because I know out there you chatted about in your 38 years of ministry, you said the first 7 were difficult and there was a
7:18 lot of discouragement, but I know this about you pastor Gary, my dad has shared with me the last several years, especially in the previous administration, were tough go.
7:26 Yeah. There's a
7:26 lot of scrutiny. A lot of people coming at you. You talked about death threats and more. Yeah. I'd love for you just to share a little bit about your experience and how deep and dark and difficult of the time it was.
7:37 Yeah. I think what really started it was in 20 20. I I preached an election message every 4 years around a presidential cycle. I talk about the issues, and, and so that
7:49 kinda, I think, got the ball rolling because then in 20 23, the IRS came after us for that message, and at the same time, you know, I'm I'm trying to focus on what's happening in our world.
8:01 You know, we have 20 20, we have COVID, and then we we see just this rise of all this cultural confusion with the transgender movement and same sex marriage and all of this just
8:12 bubbling to the surface, and I've always felt strongly that as a pastor, I need to address these current issues as as we go through scripture with the lens of the Bible.
8:24 You know, I I'm always reminded, Martin Luther once said, if you preach the because a lot of people talk about, I'm just gonna preach the gospel, but Martin Luther said, if you preach the gospel in all aspects with the
8:36 exception of addressing the issues of your time, you are not preaching the gospel at all. And so, you know, took that to heart, like, you know, I have to be going through the whole counsel of God. We're gonna
8:48 touch all the hot topics, and as I've touched on the hot topics, it raises the ire of some people who don't who don't like that. But but, you know, Zach, that's kind of the nature of truth. Like,
8:59 truth truth will either convict and you will have a, revival, or people don't like the truth and so you have riot. You know, you look in the Bible like I was just on Sunday going through,
9:12 the first chapter of Ephesians, and I gave the backstory on Ephesus. Paul Paul goes into Ephesus. It's a very ungodly, immoral city, and when he preaches and brings the good news of Jesus, what did he get? He
9:24 got a big riot. The whole the whole theater of Ephesus, which seats we've we've uncovered it. They've uncovered it. 25000 people were in this mob against Paul, and so he had riot, but he also
9:35 had revival, and so you're going to get both. But yeah, the pushback has been pretty strong, because we're touching on subjects that are not popular, but, you know, it's true,
9:47 and the truth has to set people free. We either believe what Jesus said, that if you know the truth, the truth will set you free, or we don't. And when you start telling the truth, even if you tell it as much wrapped in
9:59 love as you can, it's gonna be offensive to people because it confronts them. And, and so we have to accept that that's the reality of the pushback we're gonna get when we talk about the truth.
10:10 I'm gonna stop this right there and jump in to say, you're listening to Built Different. I'm Zach Clinton. We need to break for a brief message from our sponsors. I'll be back with our guests to keep the conversation
10:19 flowing right after this. You're listening to Life Audio.
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11:50 I've I've heard you share, and and this is obviously, we we know the answer to this, but I would say, hey. Speak to a pastor or a ministry leader that, you know, what I've heard you talk about where
12:02 I'm not going to waver from truth, not for, you know, a 5 0 1 c Yeah. 3 status, not for a tithe. Just the reality of that, how how do you push back about that, you know, that fear?
12:13 Like, speak to a young pastor, wrestling with that tension.
12:16 Yeah. Well, first of all, 1 of the reasons why I've heard from pastors that they are reluctant to really address these issues is because of either money or numbers, and they're usually tied together. Yeah. If I start
12:28 talking about these issues, people are going to leave, and with them go their tithes and offerings, and the first thing is, look, we have to trust the Lord with everything or it's not really his. If we claim
12:40 he's Lord, then he's Lord of our churches, too, right? So we have to trust him with our churches and our ministry, and and so what why I have found though, Joshua, is that the more I was truthful,
12:51 yes, some people left, but for everyone who left, 3 came because people are hungry for the truth. Yeah. Amen. And and our tithes and offerings actually doubled within within 3 years. So it's
13:03 that's a lie of the enemy that if you start talking the truth, you're gonna drive people out, and you know, you know, like, be careful because well, they need to hear the truth because it'll it'll set them free. Amen.
13:12 But the other thing along those lines that I've said to our folks is like, look, when the IRS came after us in 20 23, it really was the weaponization of the Justice Department under the Biden administration, and they
13:23 came after us, and we held our ground thanks to Alliance Defending Freedom, and so we fought through it, and we were able to keep our tax exempt status. But I've said to our folks, and I would say to other young
13:35 pastors, the tax exempt status cannot be a sacred cow. No. If you are preaching only in ways to make sure you keep your tax exempt status, then you're watering something
13:47 down for the sake of trying to please government, and you have to be willing to trust the Lord and let him build your church, but you have a mandate and a responsibility to be truthful in the pulpits and address the
13:59 culture of your time.
14:00 Amen. Yeah. Amen to that. Like you said, we do live in a season of kind of postmodernistic, relativistic culture where it's my truth versus your truth, which drowns out the truth. But like you said, when you're standing
14:11 on the truth and you're doing it with courage and conviction and compassion, that's where God can have his way throughout a congregation. And I think with that then comes the importance of like protection, protecting
14:22 religious liberty. Yes. Because we've been under persecution in this country for far longer than people would really recognize and actually note. You have faced it personally. But I wanna go to now the importance of the
14:34 religious liberty commission that has been kind of enacted under president Trump and dished the White House faith office, and then you, Burley, taking part in this task force to eradicate anti Christian bias. Yeah. Speak
14:44 to the importance of that and what that means for pastors going out there and preaching biblical truth in the days we live in.
14:51 Yeah. I I got a call from the White House a few months ago about joining that task force, the initial start up. It was actually on a date I couldn't go, so I sent 1 of our elders who also was the lead attorney
15:02 in our case. He he was then, president and CEO of Alliance Defending Freedom, Mike Ferris. And so I sent Mike, and Mike went to that task force and I and I said to Mike, like, I
15:14 can't believe we're even having to do this. Like, felt honored that they were inviting us to be around the table for that discussion. But it's like, what country are we living in? You know, in America religious
15:26 liberty is being threatened, but it is. And churches are being targeted, religious liberty is at risk right now. And, before he used to be the
15:37 Solicitor General for the US, Ken Starr. Before Ken Starr died, I had him at my church and because he had just written a book, it was the last book that he wrote before he died, on on religious liberty. And so I was
15:49 interviewing him on a Wednesday night service, and and I was asking Judge Starr about, how is this possible? We've come to this point where it is so threatened that you had to even write a book. Right. But he
16:01 detailed it. He itemized all the different ways that churches are being attacked, that ministry and ministry organizations, parachurch ministries are being attacked, and that there really is this concerted effort
16:13 that we have become blind to. I think in large ways, the American church has been asleep and we are not aware that what we see in other countries has come to America. That is,
16:25 that where in some countries, like you're like Saudi Arabia, you try to convert somebody to the gospel, I mean, you're going be imprisoned.
16:31 Yeah.
16:32 Well, we can't imagine that something that terrible would come to the US, but I tell you what, the symptoms of it are already here. And, and so we're being silenced. I was just watching this
16:43 clip, on social media the other day about this guy being arrested in London because on the streets he's just preaching the gospel. And so free speech is being jeopardized right now, and particularly
16:55 free speech as it relates to Scripture and to the gospel. There was a case in Houston, Texas a few years ago where they they rounded up some pastors and demanded their sermon notes. Like, we can't imagine this has come
17:07 to the United States, but it is being targeted. Religious liberty is being threatened. We need to safeguard what we have and not take for granted what we have for as long as we may still have it.
17:17 Wow. Man. And in that, I mean, I think like your word that you were bringing around discouragement is so important because 1 of your
17:28 first points, it was around, you know, us succumbing to our feelings.
17:34 Yeah.
17:34 Yeah. And I I think, feelings are important, but they're they're terrible lords.
17:39 Yeah. Yeah.
17:39 You know? Yeah. Would you would you speak to that?
17:42 Yeah. You can't trust your feelings. Faith needs to lead. Your feelings can follow. But I mean, if we if we based our relationship with the Lord on feelings, well, you know, that's that's pretty shallow.
17:54 So, yeah, feelings are not trustworthy. Of course, God has given us feelings. But, you know, I have a friend of mine who who said, there's a new 4 letter word that I don't put in my vocabulary. And he was a guy, of
18:04 course. You know? He's feel, f e e l. Like, it's another f word. Get it out of your vocabulary. And he's like, well, that's a little harsh, but I get what he's saying. Like, you know, feelings can be deceptive. We can't
18:14 rely on our feelings. And and but we're seeing such a trend in our culture. It was back to what you said, Zach, about my truth versus your truth. That's all based on feelings. It's what I feel. It's what I feel is right.
18:26 What I feel is wrong. Very self centered, a very, you know, individualistic view of the world.
18:33 Yeah.
18:33 And it really is the difference of when someone has the Lord on the throne of their life, then it is about what God says is right and wrong. When self is on the throne of life, then it's
18:45 all about what you say is right and wrong. It's all your feelings, and that's our culture right now.
18:49 Yeah. I mean, makes me think of second Corinthians 10 5, like, just taking every thought captive because, you know, your your thoughts, well, they're gonna take you somewhere. Exactly. And if if if if I'm surrendered to
18:59 to me being at, you know, the the helm of of my own ship and, you know, I'm I'm the lord of my own life and I'm trying to maintain autonomy, well, that's gonna lead to my destruction.
19:10 Yeah. That's right. Serving as a Christian counselor. Right? You spoke a lot about just even in leadership roles, when you have responsibility that you can have needs, we all have needs, but not to be needy. Yeah. Right?
19:22 And not to be, again, driven by those particular feelings and emotions. I always try to remind my clients that feelings are not final because feelings can be fiction. Right? So like we can't be swayed by it. They're
19:32 great indicators that something might be wrong, that we need to take something, present it before God. But they can't dictate every decision, every emotion that we feel based on that particular thing. You go on after you
19:44 said, do not surrender to the emotion of discouragement because it's easy to succumb to that or to fear in this particular cultural season. But number 2, you said remember the God things. Yeah. And I think that's a huge
19:56 facet of actually resilience, being able to adapt in times of adversity. Remembrance is really the thing that helps root us in a life of resilience. Speak to remembrance, I
20:06 like that. I wish I'd had that for my notes. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. I mean, it's the idea. When you look in Psalm 42, 1 of the things that the psalmist says is that I remembered going to the house of the Lord. I
20:16 remembered being with my friends worshiping the Lord. And and so in the moment, when we're in the moment and we're wanting to be, you know, we want to succumb to whatever the feelings are in the
20:28 moment, the danger is you lose sight of reality sometimes because our feelings are not trustworthy, and it's, you know, it's how we feel is valid in the moment, but it just may not be reliable or true. And so we have to
20:39 rely on what we do know is reliable and what is true, and that's what the psalmist was saying. It's like, I know when I went to the house of the Lord, I know what God did in my heart, so I have to remember those days. I
20:50 know what it means to be with my brothers and sisters in the Lord and what that fellowship does to encourage me. And then so he relied on what he did know, because somebody
21:02 once said, like, when you don't when when you're in a place where, you know, you don't know what to do, you you rely on what you do know, and and that's what the psalmist was talking about. Let's rely on the things we do
21:13 know to be valid and true and stand on those things instead of the emotions of the moment.
21:18 Yeah. I think about the the emotion that, numbers 13, 14, they they get to the promised land. They send in the spies. 10 of the 12 come back, and they're like, yeah. There's fruit.
21:30 It's prosperous. Land's great. But But you know, there's these there's fortitude walls and these big guys, and Yeah. Maybe we should go back. And then then in Caleb's, surely we can take them. It's it's in the
21:40 remembrance of who God is, and not only who he is, but what he's proven himself, you know, trustworthy of in the past.
21:47 Yeah. And the and the bad part, just building on what you said there, Joshua, is and then the 10, it said the bad reports spread throughout the whole group. That's right. Like, you know, people who who are
21:59 driven by, you know, the worst things can have this negative impact on everybody else around them, so we have to rely on what what the Lord says and who he is because that's what makes it and then Joshua and Caleb were
22:10 the only 2 guys who got to go in from that generation, so there's
22:13 a lot of lessons there. That's a word in itself.
22:15 Oh, yeah.
22:15 Yes, there are.
22:16 For sure.
22:17 That idea of remembrance though, think is pivotal just because again, it's based and rooted in the consistency of God. That he's the same God yesterday, and forevermore. That God that's done it before is the same God
22:27 that can do it again. I remember interviewing Sean Johnson, a pastor out of Red Rocks in Colorado recently, and he's writing a book called Kiss the Fire on Resilience. And he said 1 of the best ways to kiss the fire is
22:38 by remembering past fires because God has carried you through every step of the way. Your third point though, Gary, is probably my favorite. Talk to yourself.
22:47 Talk to yourself. Well, as a counselor, I'm glad you could appreciate that because, you know, saying it sounds like people are gonna be like, what are you nuts? Are you talking to yourself? But that's what the psalmist
22:56 does. Why so downcast, oh my soul? Why so disquieted within me? I mean, he's talking out loud about himself and what he's walking through, and and I just think it's important that we sometimes have to out
23:08 loud remind ourselves of the faithfulness of God and his hand upon our lives, and, you know, the joke I made was, it's okay to talk to yourself, just don't answer yourself. Right? Like like, there are times that I'll be
23:19 driving in the car and I'll be like, you know, Lord, I know you're gonna help see me through this, or Lord, I know you are faithful, or, you know, Lord, just kind of that self talk. There's nothing, you know, that's not
23:29 psychobabble, it's just the idea of you're as much as in ministry we preach to others, like it's a monologue every Sunday for me, I need to have that monologue with myself sometimes. I need to I need to
23:41 preach to myself and and hear with my own mouth the faithfulness of God and remind myself with my lips the goodness of God and trust him out loud. So, yeah, that's what I
23:53 meant. It's just an encouraging thing for us to just talk things out loud and and remember the faithfulness of God.
23:58 Yes. We we have a friend, I forget who, but, he often will say, it's it's it's important. Maybe you say it, But it's it's important that we we talk to ourself more than we listen to ourself. Yeah. Because, you
24:10 know, in our in our flesh and the incompleteness of our humanity, it's it's, you know, more likely that we're gonna think negatively things. And even if we don't we have an incomplete diagram of what's going on, well,
24:22 we're probably gonna interject something in a negative, you know, kind of sex, you know, more often than not.
24:27 Yeah. It's true. There's an old quote that says, you are the most influential person in your life because nobody talks to you more than you do.
24:33 I like that.
24:33 And it's like that idea of the self narrative and dialogue that's always ruminating in our minds. But that quote, nobody or talk to yourself more than you listen to yourself. There's a guy named doctor James Gills, who's
24:45 1 of the greatest athletes ever walked the face of the earth, but nobody knows his name because he's not 1 of the big 5, baseball, football, basketball, soccer, or golf. He was an ultra athlete. And so do you know what
24:55 an Ironman competition is? 2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike ride, 26.2 mile run. Doctor James Gills completed a world record 6 double ironmans. So he would do an ironman. He'd go to sleep
25:07 for 8 hours. He'd do a second ironman in 2 days. His sixth 1 was over the age of 59, so he's almost 60 years old. He retires from his athletic career and they're interviewing him afterward. And they're like, how in the
25:18 world did you do something that nobody else would possibly ever even consider attempting? And he said, I I mastered the art of talking to myself rather than listening to myself. Because he talked about if I were to
25:29 listen to my negative default setting, I would have given up. I'd have thrown in the towel. It wasn't worth it. Yeah. But when I spoke those things over my life, and he actually referenced meditating on God's word,
25:40 reciting scripture in his mind and over his life while he was running. Can you imagine that? Wow. While he's running that second Ironman, a competition. That's what really got him through and pushed him to the finish
25:50 line. Talk to yourself. Number 4 is talk to God. Yeah.
25:54 Yeah. Because we can't just, you know, talk to ourselves out loud. We have to be in that constant meditation and prayer with the Lord. We have to just seek his face. And a lot of times, you know, I think that
26:06 our default is we seek God for his hand. We want something from him. But really what we need to do is seek God's face. We we need to spend that time in his presence. We need to just draw near to him. And so in
26:18 talking to him, praying to him, just, you know, taking our burdens to him. I mean, he invites us to do that, you know, just, you know, be anxious for nothing. But in all things, through prayer and supplication, with
26:27 thanksgiving, make your request known to God. Yeah. And the peace that passes all understanding will guard our hearts and our minds in Christ Jesus. So we have to do that talking to him and praying to him and and seeking
26:38 his faith.
26:38 Let me ask you this, Carrie. Somebody out there that's going through a really difficult season, and they might, you know, they've been preached their whole life, like, we have this respect and reverence for God. So, you
26:49 know, go to him and we should praise him first. And they have this methodical way of prayer and confronting the Lord. But for some people, like they're doubting and they're just in a season of wrestling with God. Is
27:00 there anything too big that God cannot handle for us present to him? Absolutely not.
27:04 And it's okay to wrestle with those big questions. You know, God is a big God. You read through the Psalms, and you see David and and others you know, some of the Psalms are unnamed. But you see that David just often
27:16 pours out his heart to God, and he pours out his heart in very vulnerable, open ways where he's doubting God or he's asking God why. You know, there are a lot of people through the Bible ask God the why questions.
27:27 Why God this and that? And I think we've, in Christianity, only almost made that taboo, like you can't ever question, don't ever ask God why. Well, it's in the Bible. People ask God why all the time.
27:38 Yeah.
27:39 And and, you know, I I think it was, I think it was J. B. Phillips, but I'm not sure, who said, If God were small enough for me to figure out, He wouldn't be big enough for me to
27:50 worship. And so, you know, there's this part of ourselves where we have to realize we won't always understand, and we have the why questions, but we have a big God. It's okay to
28:02 have these moments of doubt and questioning, but God's bigger than all of it, and he'll see us through it.
28:08 Man, the fifth point, the final point is just thirsting for more of the Lord. Yeah. And I'm thinking of second Samuel 11 and 12 where, you know,
28:20 David is is blown it, you know, he he wasn't where he was supposed to be. He did something he shouldn't have done. He covered it up and he thought he got away with it. And the the Lord sent Nathan and Nathan confronted
28:30 him. And in his confrontation, he didn't run from it. He didn't justify it. But I I love where you see David being a man after God's own heart where, what he petitioned was that,
28:43 Lord, please don't take your spirit from me. And I think, in our discouragement, like longing for a second touch or more from the
28:54 Lord, I don't think there could be anything that's more important. Would you just touch on that?
29:00 I totally agree. Yeah. Yeah. The psalmist at the end of the day in Psalm 42, he didn't pray that God would destroy his enemies. There are other places you see that in the Psalms, you know, that's not always a bad thing.
29:12 Like, Lord, you take care of our enemies. He didn't pray even for a quick exit from his problems. He just prayed for more of the Lord. He just sought more of the Lord, and because he knew
29:24 that the more he pressed into the Lord, that God would help him wherever he was. And, you know, there are plenty of Davids in this world who need second chances, third chances, and
29:36 the twelfth chance, the hundredth chance. And that's the wonderful thing of God. He is gracious and long suffering.
29:42 Yes.
29:42 And he forgives us, he restores us, and he can still even use us. Yeah. You know that story. Yeah. Right? Absolutely. And so and so God is good and God is faithful, but if we try
29:54 to find our fulfillment in other things besides the Lord, we'll always be empty. It's only in him and seeking him that he'll really fill us up.
30:02 1 of my favorite characteristics that Wayne Grudem talks a lot about about God is the incomprehensibility of God, that we can never run out of new findings.
30:14 Right? Because if we did, then we would be Him ourselves. So it's the recognition that we can always come to the foot of the cross, always yearn and hunger and thirst for more of Him. And that's the beautiful present, is
30:26 His presence alone. Pastor Gary, I'm thinking here for a moment, just a closing word to a leader that maybe feels depleted and
30:37 detached, discouraged, disappointed, drained, downcast. What's the final word of hope, encouragement, motivation for that leader?
30:46 1 of the stories I shared in the teaching today was out of first Samuel 30 when the Amalekites had ransacked Ziklag and David and his fighting men came back to
30:58 Ziklag to find their wives gone, their children gone, the whole city burned, and it talked about how the the men thought of stoning David because he was the leader, and
31:09 so they held him responsible for, you know, the the their wives and children being taken captive. But first Samuel 30 verse 6 says, but David strengthened himself in the Lord.Show more
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