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Stress, Burnout & Finding Rest: A Conversation with Dr. Eric Scalise
July 17, 2025 · 56 min
Are you running on empty?
In this episode, Haley and Dustin sit down with Dr. Eric Scalise, President of Hope for the Heart, to talk about one of the most pressing issues in our fast-paced culture: stress and burnout.
With more than 40 years of experience as a licensed counselor, Dr. Scalise brings both clinical insight and biblical wisdom to this important conversation. We unpack the difference between stress and burnout, how they impact your mind, body, and faith, and why stress seems more intense today than in past decades. We also explore how our thought patterns can intensify our stress, and share practical strategies and biblical insights for coping with and preventing burnout.
If you’re tired, overwhelmed, or feeling spiritually dry, this episode is for you. We also discuss the Hope Together Conference happening this fall – a time to pause, be refreshed, and be poured into by an encouraging, Christian community. See the link below for details.
Subscribe to the podcast and tune in each week as Haley and Dustin share with you what the Bible says about real-life issues with compassion, warmth, and wit.
So you have every reason for hope, for every challenge in life. Because hope means everything.
Hope Talks is a podcast of the ministry of Hope for the Heart.
Listen in to learn more
(08:24) - Self-Care
(21:45) - Navigating Stress and Thought Patterns
(25:13) - Healthy Habits for Managing Stress
(31:41) - Returning to the Jesus Yoke
(43:00) - Hope Together Conference Vision
--------------
Hope for the Heart resources
Learn more and sign up for our fall Hope Together conference: https://hopetogether.com/
Connect with Hope for the Heart on social!
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hopefortheheart
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hopefortheheart
Learn more about the ministry and resources of Hope for the Heart: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/
Learn more about Hope Talks and catch up on past episodes: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/hopetalks/
Want to talk with June Hunt on Hope in the Night about a difficult life issue? Schedule a time here: https://resource.hopefortheheart.org/talk-with-june-hope-in-the-night
God’s plan for you: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/gods-plan-for-you/
Give to the ministry of Hope for the Heart: https://raisedonors.com/hopefortheheart/givehope?sc=HTPDON
----------------------------
Bible verses mentioned in this episode
Psalm 46:10 – “Be still, and know that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth!”
Psalm 68:19 – “Praise the Lord; praise God our savior! For each day he carries us in his arms.”
Matthew 11:28 -- “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.”
Hebrews 4:14-16 – “Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.”
Series Hope Talks July 17, 2025 · 56 min · Hope Talks
Are you running on empty? In this episode, Haley and Dustin sit down with Dr. Eric Scalise, President of Hope for the Heart, to talk about one of the most pressing issues in our fast-paced culture: stress and burnout. With more than 40 years of experience as a licensed counselor, Dr. Scalise brings both clinical insight and biblical wisdom to this important conversation. We unpack the difference between stress and burnout, how they impact your mind, body, and faith, and why stress seems more intense today than in past decades. We also explore how our thought patterns can intensify our stress, and share practical strategies and biblical insights for coping with and preventing burnout. If you’re tired, overwhelmed, or feeling spiritually dry, this episode is for you. We also discuss the Hope Together Conference happening this fall – a time to pause, be refreshed, and be poured into by an encouraging, Christian community. See the link below for details. Subscribe to the podcast and tune in each week as Haley and Dustin share with you what the Bible says about real-life issues with compassion, warmth, and wit. So you have every reason for hope, for every challenge in life. Because hope means everything. Hope Talks is a podcast of the ministry of Hope for the Heart. Listen in to learn more (08:24) - Self-Care (21:45) - Navigating Stress and Thought Patterns (25:13) - Healthy Habits for Managing Stress (31:41) - Returning to the Jesus Yoke (43:00) - Hope Together Conference Vision -------------- Hope for the Heart resources Learn more and sign up for our fall Hope Together conference: https://hopetogether.com/ Connect with Hope for the Heart on social! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hopefortheheart Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hopefortheheart Learn more about the ministry and resources of Hope for the Heart: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/ Learn more about Hope Talks and catch up on past episodes: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/hopetalks/ Want to talk with June Hunt on Hope in the Night about a difficult life issue? Schedule a time here: https://resource.hopefortheheart.org/talk-with-june-hope-in-the-night God’s plan for you: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/gods-plan-for-you/ Give to the ministry of Hope for the Heart: https://raisedonors.com/hopefortheheart/givehope?sc=HTPDON ---------------------------- Bible verses mentioned in this episode Psalm 46:10 – “Be still, and know that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth!” Psalm 68:19 – “Praise the Lord; praise God our savior! For each day he carries us in his arms.” Matthew 11:28 -- “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.” Hebrews 4:14-16 – “Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.” ...more Show the full description Show less Are you running on empty?
In this episode, Haley and Dustin sit down with Dr. Eric Scalise, President of Hope for the Heart, to talk about one of the most pressing issues in our fast-paced culture: stress and burnout.
With more than 40 years of experience as a licensed counselor, Dr. Scalise brings both clinical insight and biblical wisdom to this important conversation. We unpack the difference between stress and burnout, how they impact your mind, body, and faith, and why stress seems more intense today than in past decades. We also explore how our thought patterns can intensify our stress, and share practical strategies and biblical insights for coping with and preventing burnout.
If you’re tired, overwhelmed, or feeling spiritually dry, this episode is for you. We also discuss the Hope Together Conference happening this fall – a time to pause, be refreshed, and be poured into by an encouraging, Christian community. See the link below for details.
Subscribe to the podcast and tune in each week as Haley and Dustin share with you what the Bible says about real-life issues with compassion, warmth, and wit.
So you have every reason for hope, for every challenge in life. Because hope means everything.
Hope Talks is a podcast of the ministry of Hope for the Heart.
Listen in to learn more
(08:24) - Self-Care
(21:45) - Navigating Stress and Thought Patterns
(25:13) - Healthy Habits for Managing Stress
(31:41) - Returning to the Jesus Yoke
(43:00) - Hope Together Conference Vision
--------------
Hope for the Heart resources
Learn more and sign up for our fall Hope Together conference: https://hopetogether.com/
Connect with Hope for the Heart on social!
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hopefortheheart
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hopefortheheart
Learn more about the ministry and resources of Hope for the Heart: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/
Learn more about Hope Talks and catch up on past episodes: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/hopetalks/
Want to talk with June Hunt on Hope in the Night about a difficult life issue? Schedule a time here: https://resource.hopefortheheart.org/talk-with-june-hope-in-the-night
God’s plan for you: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/gods-plan-for-you/
Give to the ministry of Hope for the Heart: https://raisedonors.com/hopefortheheart/givehope?sc=HTPDON
----------------------------
Bible verses mentioned in this episode
Psalm 46:10 – “Be still, and know that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth!”
Psalm 68:19 – “Praise the Lord; praise God our savior! For each day he carries us in his arms.”
Matthew 11:28 -- “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.”
Hebrews 4:14-16 – “Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.”
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Hope for the Heart is a worldwide biblical counseling, coaching, and caregiving ministry founded by June Hunt in 1986. We’re passionate about helping people
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0:00 Burnout is what's going on with you inside your heart and your head, and stress impacts what's going on inside your body. You need to pay attention to that.0:10 Welcome to Hope Talks. We're your hosts. I'm Haley Scully along with Dustin Anderson, and we wanna give you every reason for hope for every challenge in life because hope means everything.0:23 Hey, Dustin.0:23 Hey, Haley.0:24 Guess what day it is? It's bring your boss to podcast day. Cool. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. It's bring your boss to podcast day and guest day here on Hope Talks. So tell0:36 Hope Talks, those that are listening, who we've got with us.0:39 We have doctor Eric Scalise with us today. He is the president and chief strategy officer of Hope for the Heart, but he would first introduce himself, I know, as Donna's Thank you.0:48 Thank you.0:49 Shout out to Donna.0:51 Thank you, Donna's husband for being with us today. Yeah. Husband, father, we're just talking about your boys, 2 combat veterans. But also doctor Eric Scleese, he's been on the podcast before, and so there's longer1:02 introduction there, but just a wealth of experience over 40 years in the mental health field helping churches, ministries, organizations, but also having your own practice as an LPC and LMFT and author1:14 of a couple of books, especially around, like, counseling, addiction, and recovery, and also our lead course instructor on our foundations of care training course and a number of our coaching courses with
1:26 ICCI. And so today, we wanted to get into the topic of stress and burnout because this is 1 of your areas of specialty.
1:33 I do like that topic, and I guess bring your boss to work day is gonna increase some stress right here.
1:39 Well, that's what I'm saying. A little bit. A little bit. But not burnout. We're not we're not quite there. This is actually an intervention, Eric. That's what this is. Okay. I'm gonna keep going. Let's go.
1:49 We wanted to have this conversation around this topic because the world in general, I feel like I hear so often about just people being stressed, but also that word burnout has I feel like come
2:01 into our vocabulary over the last few years. People don't just say I'm stressed or I have anxiety, but we say stuff like I'm just burned out. It's a way of communicating I'm really just exhausted, but I think there's
2:11 actually more to it than that. And so what I wanted to ask upfront is you have a lot of areas of specialty as a counselor, but the first 1 in your bio actually is on professional and pastoral
2:23 stress and burnout. And so I wanted to ask, what has been kind of your interest in this topic? How had this become an area of specialty for you? Was there a personal story, or or is it just something that as you kinda
2:35 started in counseling years ago, you just saw it so much?
2:38 Well, sure. I saw it a lot, and part of it is me just being a sheep. Over the years, I would have pastors come up to me and share different things going on or ask my 2
2:50 cents about something, many times about things going on in their personal lives. And I'd done interventions with pastors, and probably everyone listening has been in church settings or
3:02 ministry settings where you've had unhealthy, broken, stressed out, burnout out leaders. And I remember having a conversation with a pastor. I was actually doing a little webinar on stress and asked me
3:14 the same question. I said, listen. I said, I'm not a pastor. I'm a sheep. And sheep like me need people like you to be healthy. And I said, so that's part of the motivation. And then on the professional side,
3:26 I spent 6 years on the Virginia Board of Counseling. And 1 of the responsibilities we had to do is we had to listen to disciplinary cases. It was tough. I had to recuse myself from 6 different
3:38 cases while I was on the board because I knew the licensed therapist, and they were all believers. And every 1 of them, you could find a point of stress or burnout somewhere that
3:50 before they cross that ethical line. And so I see it in the profession, and I spent time as a department chair at Regent University. So you're training therapists who are gonna be
4:02 working on this thing, but it's also about self care. Many professionals, the very thing they offer, they don't do a very good job on the personal size.
4:12 I was gonna tell you, anything you say today can and will be held against you here or
4:16 Very good. Fair enough. Fair enough. But also, you you mentioned 2 words, Dustin, stress and burnout. And a lot of people think, is that the same thing? No. They're close. People who are burned out
4:28 probably have higher stress levels, and people who are overly stressed experience burnout. But they're a little bit different even though they're often used interchangeably. When someone says they're burnt out,
4:39 it's often like their emotions are more shut down. They get quieter. They lose energy. Stress is the opposite. Your emotions aren't shunted down. They're
4:51 amped up. It still impacts you, but I often say that burnout is what's going on with you inside your heart and your head, and stress impacts what's going on inside your body. You need to pay
5:03 attention to that. I saw a study. 60 to 70 percent of every doctor visit is stress related. Think about that. All the reasons we all go to a physician
5:15 or a checkup or what, 60 to 70 percent because stress also impacts the immune system and all kinds of stuff.
5:22 You had mentioned people in kind of the helping fields, whether you're in ministry, pastor, counselor, like, don't tend to take care of ourselves as well. Why do you think that is? Even though
5:34 we have the knowledge of what we should do, why is that a thing that happens?
5:39 People who feel called to care at various levels, pastorally, chaplaincy, counselors, coaches, whatever, are often very people oriented. You know, they have a heart to care, and they
5:51 say to themselves, I have to always be strong for you. I'm not allowed to show that I'm struggling or whatever. So we let things slide, and often it's
6:03 just then too late. And working around people who are hurting in pain can be draining. When I was doing private practice and I was doing 30, 40 sessions a week, sometimes 8, 9 a day,
6:15 hours sessions, and you're hearing trauma and abuse and grief, and I just lost my loved 1 again and again. Listen. And if you're a caring person, it drains you, and it can burn you out a bit. And
6:27 so you have to take some intentionality, I think, to take care of yourself.
6:33 I was talking with a coworker right before this. Hello, Abby. And she was saying, burnout is 1 of those things you don't notice until kind of after the fact. Or like, you don't notice until it's kinda too late. Is that
6:44 kind of another way of distinguishing it from stress? You kinda know when you're stressed, but burnout seems like 1 of those things where it's like, now I'm a little bit
6:52 too Perhaps. Yeah. But I think that has something to do with not being intentional to pay attention to symptoms or factors. I just sort of ignore it. That's not me. It won't
7:04 happen to me. I gotta be so I have not been oriented to pay attention to the things maybe I should pay attention to. And then you're right. It can kind of sneak up on you. When's the last time any of us knew
7:16 we had bad breath? Until someone came up and said, hello. Yeah. And so we often don't see it ourselves, and we have to be willing, which is 1 of the things I often say, if you're gonna take care
7:28 of yourself, you better have a few people in your life that have the freedom to speak into you and say, hey. Yes. Haley provides that for me.
7:34 She's raising
7:35 her hand right
7:36 Oh, that's what it was. You had said that some of the cases that you were involved in, you had to recuse yourself because it sounded like a counselor or someone had crossed some ethical boundary, but then you realized
7:48 they had a marker of burnout. So Yeah.
7:51 Well, I mean, I you get the whole case record, and you can read about what happened. So I know what facilitated Mhmm. That poor choice. I had to recuse myself from those because I
8:02 knew the person who was charged, and you can't
8:06 But the burnout kind of contributed to the Oh, yeah. I was
8:10 making up That's where and I was going burnout then lead to fallout in other areas
8:15 of life. Defenses.
8:17 Yes. And we get to the point where we just don't care. I use this picture a lot, and I share this story. I was on my way to Australia to speak at a conference
8:28 to over 1000, mostly pastors, on this subject of stress. And, Hailey, you've flown all over the world. Flying internationally can be stressful sometimes because you're trying to make connections, and you certainly don't
8:40 wanna miss your international connection.
8:42 Yeah.
8:42 You're running. It was a rainy day. I had a delay already. I was flying out. It was just crazy. And so I finally got to the airport, and this was like a 10 30 at night flight from LA to
8:54 Sydney. Long flight. Right? Yeah. And I was stressed. And I sat down. I had something I was just reading just to kinda and you often hear the flight attendants start their preflight stuff, and they walk through where the
9:06 lights are and seat belts and all this. And 1 of the things they often say is if we were to experience the sudden loss of cabin pressure, oxygen masks will drop from the ceiling above you. If you're traveling with a
9:17 small child, what are you supposed to do?
9:20 Put yours on first.
9:21 Put yours on. And and I heard that, and it was kinda like the holy spirit just like, did you? And I'm like, oh, yeah. Put the mask on yourself first.
9:29 Before you go teach it.
9:30 You would think that that kid who's scared or less able, you gotta take care of them first. But the principle is you're in the better position. You need to take care of yourself. For I often say to colleagues
9:42 and people in this space, if you're always last, you won't last.
9:47 Mhmm.
9:48 I didn't say if you're never last. I mean, sometimes you do. But if you're always last, like, you never then you're not gonna make it.
9:54 Yeah. You know?
9:54 I think.
9:55 Yeah. Because there's that sense of, well, I'm serving others, so I'm doing I'm doing what the Lord wants me to do. And you can even point to a lot of passages in scripture to, like, affirm that. Oh, yeah. And it
10:07 doesn't negate those things, but it can just lead to this constant, I need to put others first to
10:14 Well, it's yet day. Right? I I need laborers. There's this sense like the time is ticking. It's short. Go. Go. Go. But the scripture says, I don't know the exact reference, but says that Jesus often
10:25 went to a quiet place alone to be alone with the father. I can't imagine anyone in greater need. I imagine if for a second, God was using us to heal people of cancer
10:37 or AIDS or we walked across the Red River to meet with the governor in Oklahoma.
10:42 Thank you. Thank you for getting that in.
10:44 For you, Haley. Mhmm. I mean, would anyone be seeking us out, thrusting their loved ones in front of us, asking imagine Jesus was probably hounded everywhere every day, and yet he intentionally said, you
10:56 know what? I need to be alone. I need to be myself, and I need to get with my father. If Jesus being fully God and fully man needed that, how much more do you and I need it? So you're right. We can say,
11:08 I I can't, but Jesus didn't say that.
11:11 We're talking about just people called to care and kind of that aspect of it. That's who we get to speak into a lot, but also just anybody anywhere. It seems like stress is just
11:23 super normalized at this point. So I'm gonna ask you kind of a weird question
11:28 Okay.
11:28 And it hasn't come to mind before, but the idea of false stress. And so what I mean by that is we all have busy schedules. And sometimes just having 4 things to do in a
11:40 day, all of a sudden, we're defining that as stress. I think we've almost normalized stress to the point where just having a schedule and I'm not trying to belittle. We
11:52 absolutely get stressed. But when everybody in the world says they're stressed, I just wonder if we are defining just having a good day's worth of stuff to do if we're overkilling
12:04 it with stress. And maybe that's a little bit uncaring. I don't know. But that's what do you think about that?
12:09 Think some people can go there. Stress and burnout for me is like when people talk about things like grief or depression. We've all experienced grief. We've all but these things are
12:20 continuums. Someone might say, I'm stressed, but they're at the low end of the continuum. Someone else is darn near a panic attack or shutting down. So I'm always trying to assess where are you on that
12:32 continuum if you're using those words, 1. And 2, I also recognize how I might define stress or grief or loss or depression and how an event might impact me may not impact another person
12:44 as much. So I try not to minimize because I might sit here going, well, that's not stressful for me that it's not stressful for the other person.
12:52 Right. And not in an effort to judge it in them, but sometimes and and I think that's 1 thing that that our keys do really well even as we've talked about, like, definitions, characteristics, causes, steps, dissolution,
13:04 that helping people understand those definitions sometimes can be empowering. Sure. Not to minimize, hey, that's not stressful, but hey, you've got this. Here's your skills and
13:15 you've got this. And because I think if we're always kinda like a learned hopelessness or learned helplessness, if we're defining everything as stress, then we start to lower ourselves
13:27 and not feel empowered. Yeah. So that's 1 thing. I just think sometimes that if everybody is talking about it, then I'm wondering if a definition
13:39 has gotten a little bit whitewashed that we might have a little bit more power. Now I think you're right. That was gonna be my next question. I just said I think you're right. I want that noted in my Well,
13:50 pull
13:50 that up
13:50 for the social
13:51 media post.
13:52 Can we actually create a a slide on the Koch Talks video to
13:58 I think you're right. Yeah. Because my affirmation of right is really what counts. But what are some of those warning signs? Whether you're a counselor or a mom with your kids or a man just
14:10 trying to get through his job each day, what are some of those stress signs that's gonna lead somebody to burnout?
14:16 There's eustress, It's spelled e u s t r e s t you know, eustress, I stress, we all stress. It's the everyday, like, I gotta get up. I gotta go to work. I gotta study for that test.
14:28 It's just everyday. Jesus said what? In this world, you will have some tribulation. Yeah. But be of good cheer. So it's just the nature of life.
14:36 And There's just stuff to do every day.
14:38 That's right. And given where technology is, we live in a fast paced push button instant everything world. It's like, forget carpe diem. It's carpe manana. I want tomorrow today. And so we
14:50 live in a world now that is stressful, probably much more than our parents or grandparents did. So when eustress becomes distress, that's when
15:02 it can become impactful. Everyone has eustress, but not everyone is distressed. So what you begin to see, like I said, is burnout will hit you emotionally, cognitively. Your
15:14 emotions are blunted. You're tired. You might feel like a lack of energy, but stress starts to impact your body. You might start feeling tight in the chest and almost near panicky if that's going on. You're gonna
15:26 have problems with sleep. You're gonna have problems maybe with appetite. It begins stress speaks to the body more than it speaks to the mind or the heart. So you have to, again, be intentional and say, Okay, it
15:37 doesn't hurt to talk to someone, maybe even see a doctor if it got to a point. Like I said, 60 percent to 70 percent of all doctors' VISTAs are stress related. So doctors are at least tuned
15:49 into asking some questions Mhmm. That may be helpful.
15:53 I like those words together. You can be stressed, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're distressed.
15:59 Right.
16:00 Having people that's a real practical thought. If you're feeling, I've got a lot of stress, then asking yourself, is this leading to distress and what would some characteristics of that be? And that might help people do
16:11 a bit of a self evaluation of where am I and do I need to check-in? I'll go ahead and say, I do think you're good at this. Even though there are days where you might encourage the things that are
16:23 on my plate to do that would cause a new level of stress, but all good things. And that's 1 thing we say. We're really busy, and it's all good things. But even really good things can lead to a little pressure. And a
16:34 couple weeks ago, we've had some really big events going on. And I wouldn't say burnout in the negative sense. I mean, I think that's like let's- Fatigue. Yeah. And you were really good to me. You were like,
16:46 work from home this week and take some time to kind of prepare for a couple of the events that we had because we do have a lot going on up here, and I really appreciated that. So I'm saying it out loud to everybody.
16:57 Wow. This is another slide.
16:59 Why would you cut off a couple of But but I really appreciated that because normally, Eric, I'm gonna try to handle my business. There's those memes about moving and trying to carry your
17:10 couch yourself. We've joked about that. I'm not really good at that because I've gotta take care of it. And that week that you let me work from home, I tried to not turn the TV on that week. I wasn't trying to
17:22 be overly weird. I was like, I don't need any more sensitization. Yeah. And I sat on my balcony, and I read books, and I'd really tried to embrace the time, and it was so helpful. Not everybody can do that. No. But they
17:34 might be able to do that in bits and pieces in a way and just recognizing the impact. I get cranky, I think, as you know. He's These
17:42 are all so good.
17:43 I know. Well I
17:44 love it.
17:44 I'm not gonna sit here and talk about it and be, like, miss hypocrite because Eric will call it spillage when yeah. Spillage. Like, when I'm kind of at my top and we've got a lot going on and we work
17:56 really closely, so you kind of see that at times before others do because it's mad. Nobody else can ever tell when I feel a little. But I just I appreciate that. I think with others, you practice
18:08 what you're
18:09 teaching now. You you put the oxygen mask on yourself for a week or 2. There's a Canadian endocrinologist. His name is Hans Selje. And he is often credited
18:19 made all those words up.
18:21 I did. Endocrinologist. His name's Hans Selje. He's often seen as the father of stress research. Here's his definition of stress, the nonspecific response
18:32 of the body to any demand. Now think about that. His definition of stress is, I can't even specify it. You're saying, well, what are the symptoms like? Yes. To the body of any demand put
18:44 on it. That kinda tells me that almost anything at least has the capacity to cause some stress and or burnout in a person. So you're talking about a pretty broad thing. What you just said,
18:56 Hailey, reminds me the 1 thing I often say to people is in managing stress and burnout, you might have to reinsert that 2 letter word. Our moms and dads work real hard to drive out of our
19:07 vocabulary. No. No.
19:10 I'm not even gonna hear that right now. I know. Just as a demonstration, I don't hear it.
19:14 And time does not manage us. Time controls us. Yeah. We have to take control of our time. If you looked at my calendar or whatever, you'd
19:26 say, Eric, can I recommend a good therapist for you? Because it looks full and busy all the time. If you saw certain things, you go, oh, you've blocked out time for yourself. Listen. People love to make
19:38 their crisis your crisis. We have to discern and sometimes we have to say no. Cemeteries are full of indispensable people. Listen. If a pastor had the best sermon he ever prepared
19:49 and God decided before Sunday, you know what? You and I are gonna I'd like to hear that in person. Yeah. You know, would somebody fill that pulpit?
19:58 Yeah.
19:58 Absolutely. Yeah. I still adjunct a little bit. If I had papers or tests to grade and Todd said, nope. We're having dinner tonight. Would somebody finish the class? Probably. If we were counseling someone and something
20:10 happened and that person really needed, would they find somebody? Yes.
20:13 Perspective.
20:14 We have to manage our schedules. And sometimes I'll just say, you know what? Here's my next open slot. More often than not, they'll flow with you then fight you over it. We just have to get
20:26 comfortable with saying no and make the adjustment.
20:30 So when I'm feeling stressed at times and I'm just gonna this is all hypothetical.
20:35 K.
20:35 Okay? This is all very hypothetical. First of all, also, for me to hear no, it really helps if it's preceded by Hayley Lou Gene. If you say it that way, then I'm gonna receive a no a little bit better just for future
20:46 reference.
20:47 Staff take note.
20:48 Yeah. Yeah. Hayley Lou Gene, I said no. But why when I get to those stress points or whenever I'm tired of talking about myself. Let's say when people get to stress points, why does that
20:59 sometimes then make them upset with God?
21:04 We need to be in control.
21:06 Unpack it.
21:06 When things happen that we can't always predict, plan for, prepare for, and we don't like. And if it happens a lot in life, and again, remember, we live in a culture now that
21:18 maybe that happens a little bit more on average to the average person than in the past. Right? We often come to the conclusion when I have no control over my circumstances or what's going on or people
21:30 invading my space, I get stressed. I get hurt. I don't like it. And then we flip it in our brain and we go, well, the opposite has to be true. If I can just figure out how to control the people and the events
21:42 and the things in my life, I'm gonna be safer. So something stressful comes up and we're trying to manage it in the moment and all it does, frankly, is probably stress us out more as well as the person or
21:54 persons we're interacting with. But I get the dynamic because we're trying at some level to maybe mitigate it and lessen the impact. It depends on each person's story too.
22:06 They're all
22:07 like encourage people to stop doing that?
22:10 Learn to recognize it. Like you said, in the keys, we intentionally talk about characteristics and causes, trying to educate people. We want you to pay attention so you not self
22:21 diagnose, but be self aware.
22:23 Self aware.
22:24 So then you can apply the right solutions. Trying to apply any solution without any awareness is often ineffective because there are sometimes multiple solution
22:35 opportunities. We don't even know which 1 to apply if we have no idea what's driving it. So I think self awareness but I also I've talked about it. We're rarely the best people to be self
22:47 aware. I mean, we can read. We can study. Having people in your life to have some accountability with
22:54 You're welcome.
22:55 That that that's why I'm so not stressed most of the time. I have a great accountability partner here at work. But it's true to to for someone to say, have you noticed? Yeah. Or I'm seeing this.
23:07 And if you invite that rather than just people get frustrated and give it to you Right. But invite it, I just think that is especially for people who are in high stress environments and anyone in
23:18 the people helping ministry or field.
23:21 There's a couple of thoughts I wanna try and put together. So you had mentioned just the world we live in now, instant everything. So there's that, and then the concept of kinda controlling your schedule and your time is
23:33 another part of it. And then just the role of how we react to stress and like our own thoughts. So in my life, like I've noticed, again, with the everything now in my schedule, like when
23:45 I see my to do list for the week Yeah. Or for the month or whatever, I always have this thought or feeling like it's all due right now. Even though I literally I'm looking at the due dates for
23:57 things and I know I know I don't even have to get to this this week. Mhmm. But it feels like there's all these things and they're all due right now. And so part of my own kind of journey of navigating stress
24:08 is just looking at my calendar and realizing not everything has to be done right now. And I think that's fairly common with people because, yeah, it's just that world we live in right now where I have all these
24:19 responsibilities. I have all these deadlines. And because everything is so instant, it just feels like everything is Right. Yeah. It has to happen all simultaneously all at once right now. But I think a lot of that is my
24:31 own so that's the third part. It's like my own reaction to stress and some of my own thinking about my own responsibilities and what I need to be doing and not doing for the day or for the week. And so
24:43 I wanted to ask like, what role does not just time management because I've been saying lately, I just need to make my world smaller for this season when I'm stressed or whatever. But also, what's the role in just our own
24:54 thoughts and like recurring thoughts, like deep seated beliefs? Like, how does that either exacerbate or contribute to stress and burnout? Because there are, like you said, there are the
25:05 real physiological Yeah. Responses we deal with, but it also seems like some of it is we make it worse just by the beliefs we have. So like
25:13 Well, of course. Before I answer that question, I'm gonna ask you a question. At what point in your adult life when you think about all your to dos in your personal life, family life, ministry stuff at
25:25 church or wherever, and your professional life here at Hope for the Heart, have you ever ticked everything off your checklist and said, I am caught up. I am, like, looking for the next thing to add to the list.
25:37 Never. Never. I don't think any person listening to this podcast, if you did, there's something else going on with you psychologically, we can talk about it. The truth is we never catch up and we never will. And
25:49 so when we start thinking, it's like you can check off 5 things and add 6. It's how you approach it. And I think giving yourself permission to set boundaries to say no to do some things,
26:01 we have to be okay with who we're looking at in the mirror. Mhmm. And we have to be able to with some degree of personal integrity, say, god, I I've done everything I knew I could do today, and we have to be okay with
26:11 it. Now we can take that to the wrong place and use it to justify not being responsible.
26:17 Right. Yeah. But I think You burn out. You check out.
26:19 Far more people put the weight and the pressure on themselves than on the other side. So I think self talk is important. It says faith comes by hearing and by hearing the word of God. I'm not
26:31 a name it, claim it person any stretch of imagination, but I do believe that there are elements of faith that are voice activated. Faith comes by hearing, not just writing or reading. I've seen people
26:43 work desperately to get into the right environment, the right situation, and in front of the right people who will say the right things to them. Usually, affirmation, whatever, all kinds of
26:55 gyrations like, right, oh, you told me that was wonderful. Thank you. And I'm like, if we believe in the priesthood of the believer, I'm like, you're free to, like, speak truth over yourself anytime you want. And I think
27:06 there's a place where our ears need to hear our voice speaking truth over ourselves instead of just so I actually talk out loud sometimes. I'll quote a scripture, not just a read it. I wantShow more
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