Skip to content Building Resilience & Caring for Our Veterans with Maj. Gen. Bob Dees (Ret.) Jun 12 · 57 min ...more
Building Resilience & Caring for Our Veterans with Maj. Gen. Bob Dees (Ret.)
June 12, 2025 · 57 min
In this episode, Haley and Dustin are joined by Major General Bob Dees, retired U.S. Army General and President of the National Center for Healthy Veterans. General Dees shares his powerful hope story of walking through the heartbreaking loss of his child and how he and his wife found comfort and healing through the love and support of the body of Christ.
Together, they explore the critical life skill of resilience—what it is, why it matters, and how we can develop it, especially in the face of life’s trials. General Dees also shares stories about the meaningful work being done at the National Center for Healthy Veterans and why caring for our veterans is more vital than ever.
This is a rich and heartfelt conversation on hope, resilience, and service. Whether you're facing a personal challenge or want to better support others, you’ll be encouraged and inspired by this episode.
Subscribe to the podcast and tune in each week as Haley and Dustin share with you what the Bible says about real-life issues with compassion, warmth, and wit.
So you have every reason for hope, for every challenge in life. Because hope means everything.
Hope Talks is a podcast of the ministry of Hope for the Heart.
Listen in to learn more
(02:31) Power of Resilience and Partnership
(09:58) The Importance of Resilience and Connection
(14:49) The Concept of Resilience (70 Seconds)
(22:07) Teaching Resilience and Life Lessons
(27:28) The Impact of Trauma on Hope
(45:53) Supporting Veterans and Building Resilience
(53:20) Empowering Veterans for Future Success
--------------
Resources from General Dees & The National Center for Healthy Veterans
Learn more about the National Center for Healthy Veterans: https://healthyveterans.org/
Refer a veteran to the National Center for Healthy Veterans: https://healthyveterans.org/give-help/#refer
Explore Gen. Dees’ Resilience Coaching Courses here: https://iccicoaching.com/mentoring/gen-bob-dees/
--------------
Hope for the Heart resources:
Learn about our summer event on Mental Health and the Church: https://resource.hopefortheheart.org/mental-health-and-the-church
Connect with Hope for the Heart on social!
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hopefortheheart
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hopefortheheart
Learn more about the ministry and resources of Hope for the Heart: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/
Learn more about Hope Talks and catch up on past episodes: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/hopetalks/
Want to talk with June Hunt on Hope in the Night about a difficult life issue? Schedule a time here: https://resource.hopefortheheart.org/talk-with-june-hope-in-the-night
God’s plan for you: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/gods-plan-for-you/
Give to the ministry of Hope for the Heart: https://raisedonors.com/hopefortheheart/givehope?sc=HTPDON
Sign up for our fall Hope Together conference: https://hopetogether.com/
----------------------------
Bible verses mentioned in this episode
Proverbs 3:5-6 -- Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.
Proverbs 13:12 – “Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life.”
John 16:33 -- “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”
Romans 5:3-5 -- “Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.”
Series Hope Talks June 12, 2025 · 57 min · Hope Talks
In this episode, Haley and Dustin are joined by Major General Bob Dees, retired U.S. Army General and President of the National Center for Healthy Veterans. General Dees shares his powerful hope story of walking through the heartbreaking loss of his child and how he and his wife found comfort and healing through the love and support of the body of Christ. Together, they explore the critical life skill of resilience—what it is, why it matters, and how we can develop it, especially in the face of life’s trials. General Dees also shares stories about the meaningful work being done at the National Center for Healthy Veterans and why caring for our veterans is more vital than ever. This is a rich and heartfelt conversation on hope, resilience, and service. Whether you're facing a personal challenge or want to better support others, you’ll be encouraged and inspired by this episode. Subscribe to the podcast and tune in each week as Haley and Dustin share with you what the Bible says about real-life issues with compassion, warmth, and wit. So you have every reason for hope, for every challenge in life. Because hope means everything. Hope Talks is a podcast of the ministry of Hope for the Heart. Listen in to learn more (02:31) Power of Resilience and Partnership (09:58) The Importance of Resilience and Connection (14:49) The Concept of Resilience (70 Seconds) (22:07) Teaching Resilience and Life Lessons (27:28) The Impact of Trauma on Hope (45:53) Supporting Veterans and Building Resilience (53:20) Empowering Veterans for Future Success -------------- Resources from General Dees & The National Center for Healthy Veterans Learn more about the National Center for Healthy Veterans: https://healthyveterans.org/ Refer a veteran to the National Center for Healthy Veterans: https://healthyveterans.org/give-help/#refer Explore Gen. Dees’ Resilience Coaching Courses here: https://iccicoaching.com/mentoring/gen-bob-dees/ -------------- Hope for the Heart resources: Learn about our summer event on Mental Health and the Church: https://resource.hopefortheheart.org/mental-health-and-the-church Connect with Hope for the Heart on social! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hopefortheheart Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hopefortheheart Learn more about the ministry and resources of Hope for the Heart: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/ Learn more about Hope Talks and catch up on past episodes: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/hopetalks/ Want to talk with June Hunt on Hope in the Night about a difficult life issue? Schedule a time here: https://resource.hopefortheheart.org/talk-with-june-hope-in-the-night God’s plan for you: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/gods-plan-for-you/ Give to the ministry of Hope for the Heart: https://raisedonors.com/hopefortheheart/givehope?sc=HTPDON Sign up for our fall Hope Together conference: https://hopetogether.com/ ---------------------------- Bible verses mentioned in this episode Proverbs 3:5-6 -- Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight. Proverbs 13:12 – “Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life.” John 16:33 -- “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.” Romans 5:3-5 -- “Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.” ...more Show the full description Show less In this episode, Haley and Dustin are joined by Major General Bob Dees, retired U.S. Army General and President of the National Center for Healthy Veterans. General Dees shares his powerful hope story of walking through the heartbreaking loss of his child and how he and his wife found comfort and healing through the love and support of the body of Christ.
Together, they explore the critical life skill of resilience—what it is, why it matters, and how we can develop it, especially in the face of life’s trials. General Dees also shares stories about the meaningful work being done at the National Center for Healthy Veterans and why caring for our veterans is more vital than ever.
This is a rich and heartfelt conversation on hope, resilience, and service. Whether you're facing a personal challenge or want to better support others, you’ll be encouraged and inspired by this episode.
Subscribe to the podcast and tune in each week as Haley and Dustin share with you what the Bible says about real-life issues with compassion, warmth, and wit.
So you have every reason for hope, for every challenge in life. Because hope means everything.
Hope Talks is a podcast of the ministry of Hope for the Heart.
Listen in to learn more
(02:31) Power of Resilience and Partnership
(09:58) The Importance of Resilience and Connection
(14:49) The Concept of Resilience (70 Seconds)
(22:07) Teaching Resilience and Life Lessons
(27:28) The Impact of Trauma on Hope
(45:53) Supporting Veterans and Building Resilience
(53:20) Empowering Veterans for Future Success
--------------
Resources from General Dees & The National Center for Healthy Veterans
Learn more about the National Center for Healthy Veterans: https://healthyveterans.org/
Refer a veteran to the National Center for Healthy Veterans: https://healthyveterans.org/give-help/#refer
Explore Gen. Dees’ Resilience Coaching Courses here: https://iccicoaching.com/mentoring/gen-bob-dees/
--------------
Hope for the Heart resources:
Learn about our summer event on Mental Health and the Church: https://resource.hopefortheheart.org/mental-health-and-the-church
Connect with Hope for the Heart on social!
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hopefortheheart
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hopefortheheart
Learn more about the ministry and resources of Hope for the Heart: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/
Learn more about Hope Talks and catch up on past episodes: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/hopetalks/
Want to talk with June Hunt on Hope in the Night about a difficult life issue? Schedule a time here: https://resource.hopefortheheart.org/talk-with-june-hope-in-the-night
God’s plan for you: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/gods-plan-for-you/
Give to the ministry of Hope for the Heart: https://raisedonors.com/hopefortheheart/givehope?sc=HTPDON
Sign up for our fall Hope Together conference: https://hopetogether.com/
----------------------------
Bible verses mentioned in this episode
Proverbs 3:5-6 -- Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.
Proverbs 13:12 – “Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life.”
John 16:33 -- “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”
Romans 5:3-5 -- “Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.”
Series Hope Talks Support this leader Liking this video? Support this ministry.
Support this leader
Liking this video? Support this ministry.
Give
Support this leader Liking this video? Support this ministry.
114K followers
Hope for the Heart is a worldwide biblical counseling, coaching, and caregiving ministry founded by June Hunt in 1986. We’re passionate about helping people
114K followers
0:00 Hope is the glue that holds everything together. They say you can live without food for months, live without water for weeks, and live without hope for seconds. And I certainly0:11 saw that a lot in the military, and so hope is critical.0:17 Welcome to Hope Talks. We're your hosts. I'm Haley Scully along with Dustin Anderson, and we wanna give you every reason for hope for every challenge in life because hope means everything.0:31 Dustin, I am so honored to get to announce today's guest on Hope Talks. And it is general Bob Dees is with us today. Hello, general. How are you doing?0:42 Hi, Hailey, Dustin. Great to be with you guys today.0:45 You too. You too. Thank you so much. So, Dustin, tell us a little bit about him. I mean Yeah. There's a lot to tell, so tell us what we can about general d.0:53 Yeah. Honored, I think, is a great word because that's a word that comes through a lot of what General Dees has done and continues to do. And so major general retired Bob Dees has served in the US Army for1:05 31 years and has served in various leadership positions in business and academia, especially at Liberty. He's the founder and president of the National Center for Healthy Veterans at Valor Farm in Virginia.1:17 We'll get a little bit into that work a little bit later, but also author of the resilience trilogy, a couple of books on resilient warriors, leaders, and nations, as well as the I love this. The1:29 resilience God style study series. But, yeah, you're known for your leadership on resilience, trauma recovery, particularly with military and veteran families. We got
1:41 connected a couple years ago through doctor Eric Scalise, our president.
1:45 And that guy connects us in a lot of places.
1:47 Lots of places. And so you have a couple of coaching courses with us on the topic of resilience through our coaching initiative, the International Christian Coaching Institute, and you've
1:59 also spoken and do regular workshops at our fall Hope Together conference. And so I'm grateful to have you here for our partnership. 1 thing I did wanna mention is that we are
2:10 gonna be releasing this episode sometime in June, I believe, and we'll be doing a campaign around how we can equip and support our veterans. And so you're a big part of that, and
2:22 Hope for the Heart has had kind of a history of equipping and supporting our veterans, and so we're grateful for your time today and for our partnership together.
2:30 And I would add, he is the husband to the lovely Kathleen, who is a wonderful friend of the ministry as well and is here with you in Dallas and so many of our events. So you guys are such a great couple
2:42 and so encouraging and so inspiring, so I thought I'd say her name hello to Kathleen too.
2:47 Well, you guys are kind to make that introduction. The only correction I would provide is that we also have 9 grandchildren.
2:54 Oh, that's great! I have a dad and a granddad. That's a
2:58 power punch right there.
2:59 That's
2:59 right. I'm joking with you, but it's just been a delight to serve alongside many great soldiers, airmen, marines, with Kathleen at my side too, and
3:11 organizations such as yours.
3:13 Well, we are grateful, and it is just inspiring and exciting to get to work with you, especially the resilience content that you bring and the perspective that you bring to resilience. I think when
3:25 so many things happen, and I don't mean to be jumping ahead, we'll circle around to this, but when so many things happen, I remember 1 of the first images that I really plugged into to your content was, you know, not
3:36 dropping like an egg, but bouncing like a tennis ball. That whole imagery of how do we and we started doing this right at the beginning of COVID, you know, talking into resilience. And I thought this resilience
3:48 god style. We need to remember the power that we have and the opportunity that we have. So it has been exciting to see that grow and to be able to share that with so many through our ministry as well,
4:00 bringing your voice into those spaces. But 1 of the first things we do in Hope Talks because, you know, we see the output of your ministry. We see some of the action of your faith. But what we wanna do
4:11 also is help people understand the concept of hope. We talk a lot about hope. We say hope means everything, and it does. And our hope is in Christ. But what's a practical hope story?
4:23 Those are kind of what we share in Hope Talks. And for some people, that's the time that they accepted Christ as their savior, that they really was like, I get it, and I'm all in. Jesus is my hope, and here's how that
4:34 works. But then others, it's an experience that we've gone through, sometimes a trial where we really learn to put our hope in Christ, and what that actually means, not just, I'm gonna lay it at the foot of the cross, or
4:45 kind of a Christian cliche that we may say, but how do we help people have a true understanding of what hope is? So, General Bob Dees, what is a hope story for you today?
4:55 Well, there's a lot of possibilities, but I guess I would highlight 1. Kathleen and I married about a year after I entered the military, and then we sort of went another year around the track. And
5:07 then she was pregnant, and we had our first daughter, but she died at birth. Oh. And so we had never had a hard life issue like that in our entire lives,
5:20 and it hurts, you know? And We found a couple of things. It's that, 1, the body of Christ rallied around us in amazing ways, and that was affirming. That taught us some
5:32 lessons. Then we learned that, In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct your paths. You know, lean not on our own understanding. As we went through that experience, God showed us
5:44 a Bible verse. You know me well enough, Haley. I'll tear up at 1 point or another.
5:50 Me too. That's good.
5:51 He showed us a Bible verse, and it was Proverbs 13 12. And it says, hope deferred. Hope deferred maketh the heart sick. And we really had sick hearts, but when the desire cometh, it is a
6:03 tree of life. And so a couple years later, actually 4 years later, our tree of life showed up. He's now about six'four and 2 40 pounds.
6:15 That's a good tree.
6:17 It is a good tree. He's a big oak tree. Yeah, so we saw through our own family experience that that verse certainly meant a lot to us. Then, of recent, we've tried to teach that to our
6:29 patriots here at National Center for Healthy Veterans because we need patience related to hope. It says hope deferred, so sometimes, many times, is deferred, but
6:41 it's not necessarily a bad thing. Hope is sometimes deferred waiting for the kairos moment, the exact time, We grow a lot of plants here at the farm. If you pull out 1 of those plants just
6:53 when it's popping out of the ground, maybe you experience a little bit of reward, but you subvert the whole future and the whole potential of what could have been had you
7:04 waited for God's exact timing. I think, for me, related to hope, hope is the glue that holds everything together. They say you can live without food for
7:16 months, live without water for weeks, and live without hope for seconds. And I certainly saw that a lot in the military, and so hope is critical. Max Lucado wrote a book
7:28 called, 3 16, The Numbers of Hope, and it talks about that 26 word parade of hope out of John 3 16. We could do all hour on this alone, but
7:40 thank you for the opportunity to share that story. 1 other, if I may. You better not get me on a roll here.
7:46 Hey, get on a roll. Like being on went
7:49 to West Point, they took away my hair. Took away my fungi. How dare they? They called me a plebe, and I was the lowest of the low, the scum of the earth, so to speak, And in that teachable moment, I recognized if I dug
8:01 down real deep, I might come up empty in. And I'd given my life to the Lord long before, but that was the moment, the teachable moment, where I truly committed my life to the Lord, and then God
8:13 provided a mentor who put me through spiritual boot camp, equivalent to all the other stuff I was doing at West Point. So it was really a meaningful experience, and when I left West Point, I
8:25 was full of hope. I was sort of wired, as was my girlfriend at the time, and we left as ambassadors in uniform for Jesus. So that was also a very teachable
8:36 moment where I gained a new portion of hope, if you will.
8:40 Yeah. So what do you think made the balance different for you for when you you and Kathleen went through such a disappointment, such a heartbreak? What
8:52 balanced you in hanging on to hope and going to his word as opposed to so many times it's like, god, why would you let this happen? We grow in anger, and it can go either way. And I think sometimes both
9:04 ways can be valid. I mean, David struggled and got frustrated and asked god why at times. But from your experience, what made you say, I'm leaning into hope instead of away from a God who I know is
9:16 sovereign and maybe allowed this to happen?
9:18 I guess I would think in the flesh that's probably exactly how we would have operated is gone to anger and toxic emotions. But almost immediately, the people that we had been in fellowship with
9:30 wrapped their arms around us, and people traveled from 10 states away to come and cry with us and just listen and so forth. So it was the community of fellow
9:42 believers that made the difference. We could have tilted the other direction, but we tilted in the right direction because of fellowship and then because of increasing knowledge of God's word
9:54 and the applicability of it. So, yeah, that's all I would say. And then when we get in the resilience stuff, 1 of them might talk a bit about that later, Ternier, the Swiss theologian, he said, We fall the way we
10:06 lean, okay? And so Kathleen and I had been leaning in what I would say is generally the right direction by virtue of the fellowship we were in. We were in small group studies
10:18 with some of these young couples, the same life experience. We're all new in our units. We're at 100 and first Airborne. Life's good. And as a result, that koinonia was priceless.
10:30 Yeah. And the lesson for all of us is that we need to stay connected because it's theoretical until it happens to you. And then when it happens to you, then it's raw and real and visceral,
10:42 and that's when you need to have the reflex to reach out to others so that they can come to your side in time of need.
10:50 I think those are some repeated themes that I've been hearing in conversations and hope talks, and I think that the way you just said it, like the way you lean, there's this idea of the fellowship, the people that we
11:02 surround ourselves with, and the people that can really care for us, and the people that will either stoke your anger or stoke your peace. And we have some choices in the
11:14 fellowship that we make, and there's a difference in the people that we allow to be our friend group, our support group, the people that we kinda connect with and do life with, and then
11:26 there's the people that we would minister to or serve. And I think sometimes it can seem clickish in a way, and I'm surprised at where I'm going with this. But it can seem clickish in a way, and
11:38 people think, oh, you know, you're just friends with church or you're just going to church and it's just community and you're a little bit isolated and whatever. And sometimes then you try to make friends
11:49 outside of that group that aren't necessarily godly people that are gonna support you. But time and time again, we hear stories of how important it is to consider the company that you
12:01 keep, especially when we're going through really difficult times like you guys experienced, and not only personally, but then in serving through the military and serving veterans and hearing so
12:13 many really difficult stories. So I guess how would you comment on that and the difference in the people that you serve and the people that we care for and the people
12:25 that you bring into your chest, if that makes sense.
12:27 Mhmm. I think of the expression that says, show me your friends, and I will show you your future. And so it does depend on who we hang out with, and I didn't say it has to be Christian friends.
12:38 Right.
12:38 But all of our friends ought to be life giving type of people, whether they're Christian or not, and they're out there. Sometimes we just have to look for love in the right places, not the wrong places.
12:50 Yeah.
12:50 And, yeah, when I was in command in Europe, I've been selected for another command, and a good friend, a dear Christian mentor, he said, You need to develop friendships outside of
13:03 your current bubble, because when you're in a command position, sometimes you can't share things with people that maybe you normally would. And then he just recognized the wisdom as we get
13:14 older and older, and maybe have more influence, that trends in different sectors are very important. In addition to our core Christian group of support, all those others
13:26 are very important for us to minister to them, or perhaps for them to minister to us or just to give us wisdom that we might not have otherwise.
13:34 Yeah. That's good. That's really good.
13:37 Yeah. I'm thinking about the thread in your story and also a movie I saw yesterday, that the body of Christ that came around you during the loss of your child, but then also later
13:49 on in life that a mentor came and, you know, gave you a spiritual boot camp as it were. So like that thread of just being surrounded by people, I think it was key. But there's movie it
14:01 was a Marvel movie my wife and I saw yesterday. But there was see if I can connect this thought. Like, there was a father and a daughter who had kind of a broken relationship, and she was really just kind of traumatized
14:12 and thought she had this monologue where she was talking about, all I can see is just the problems in my life and the sense of purpose that I have and, you know, I'm nothing but a failure. And the dad kind of said,
14:24 I don't see any of that when I look at you. That's why you need me in your life. And she kinda was like, oh, yeah. That's Wow. Yeah. Kinda good. So it's just that sometimes I think when we
14:36 were going through trials, it's like, that's all we can see, but it's the mentors in the community and the people around us who go, that's not all there is to you. That's not all there is going on here. Yep.
14:47 For sure. I love that. Yep. Well, 1 of the things I did wanna ask you about and discuss a little bit is on that topic of resilience because you'd mentioned kind of you fall the way you lean. And I know in a
14:59 lot of your resilience courses and books, I actually had the pleasure of going through some of them and developing the workbooks that go along with it. So just very grateful for that. But it's that idea of you were
15:11 prepared in some sense for those storms. And so I know you kinda talk about resilience kinda before, during, and after the storms of life. So I wanted to just ask
15:23 you about that, but just kinda first, like, how would you kind of define resilience? What is it as a concept, and why is it important for us to develop?
15:31 Yeah. I would say resilience is the ability to prepare for and navigate adversity successfully without getting stuck in the toxic emotions of guilt, false guilt, anger, and
15:43 bitterness, and learning from that life experience because body slams, heartbreak, tragedy comes around again and again. Mhmm. So every time I'm asked to define it, I sort of define it
15:55 differently because it's like 1 of these crystals that you keep turning, and that was the whole 0.1 bit of background. I wanted to make sure I was on strong empirical footing, and I was at Liberty
16:06 University. I was writing these books, and my boss, the provost, was saying, I don't like this word resilience. Maybe it ought to be grit or hardiness or something like that. He said, Those are more known
16:18 psychological terms, And I said, Well, respectfully, I know that the Army and the other services have just jumped on the bandwagon of resilience, and they're spending billions of dollars on it because soldiers, sailors,
16:30 airman Marines are taking their lives, and they're somewhat desperate, and so they've invested a lot of money in this resilience concept. And so as I watched that progress over a few years, I saw
16:41 that it was good, but it was not complete because very quickly the services started combing some of the spiritual depth and relevance out of the whole resilience
16:53 equation. So, 1, I had a little bit of burr under my saddle that, Hey, we're leaving something out. And secondly, on the empirical side, I tripped across a study by Tadeshi and Calhoun from the University of North
17:04 Carolina. They did a post Vietnam study where they reverse engineered outcomes, people that had been in Vietnam, how did they do after Vietnam, and then more importantly, what did they do before
17:16 Vietnam, and they developed something called resilience building practices. They were all defined in their study and things, but the point was there was very strong statistical findings that there was
17:28 a bipolar outcome. You would go through a trauma, Vietnam, and then after Vietnam, some spiraled down, despair, depression, even death. Others bounced
17:39 up into what they now call, this is where the term is coined, post traumatic growth. So people go through it, and they get better, wiser, stronger. In John 16 33, Jesus says, in the world
17:51 you will have tribulation. So I encourage people to, you know, get over it. Don't be surprised. We all have tribulation headed our way now, then. But then tribulation can be
18:02 positive and negative, as I just mentioned. We can actually grow through it, get better, wiser, stronger, which is the objective, and that's why we train resilience. We're born with a certain resilience factor, but we
18:14 also can train it so that we're inclined to go the right direction when something happens to us. So I think, first, that's how I started it. And then how I
18:25 refined some of the concepts is with my grandchildren. Aigle, just for you. We talked about grandchildren earlier. We did science experiments when we were at the beach, Outer Banks, and we do that once
18:37 a year with all of our grandkids. And they were, you know, just probably from 3 up till 15 or something at that time. We did science experiments, and the first 1 was tennis ball and egg.
18:49 I convinced the grandsons that if you throw a tennis ball just hard enough, it'll bounce back at you, and so they were all in. I said, Give me the tip. I mean, not a tennis ball, mean an egg. Throw it, and it'll bounce
19:00 back at you. The little granddaughters, I said, It's gonna bounce, and they said, You, dad, I don't think so. So they threw their eggs and smashed. They had scrambled eggs, and, Oh, I guess Edad was wrong. And then
19:12 they went out to the garden, and they ran off and got a tennis ball with their name on it, and they came back, and then I simply asked them the question, Do you want to be a tennis ball or an egg? They say, Oh, we want
19:22 be tennis balls. Tell us how to do it. So you've motivated the subject. And then along the way, we do a lot of others, but 1 that was 1 of my favorites is a lemon eating contest.
19:34 So you give them all a piece of lemon, and they chew on it. Sort of have a contest, see who can down their lemon first, and then the winner, you ask them a few questions. How would you like to have this in your mouth
19:46 for a day? A week? Oh, and then the point is bitterness. Oh, yeah. It introduces the subject of bitterness, and then you talk about thanksgiving and
19:58 forgiveness being the antidote to bitterness, and you help them work through that. And then the 10 most powerful words of the human language, I was wrong. I'm sorry. Will you forgive me? And so this whole notion of
20:09 conflict resolution. So I won't wind out on all that, but the grandchildren were really useful sounding board for some of these object lessons, because explaining these concepts in
20:21 very simple terms has proven to be pretty powerful, and so we're grateful for that. I say resilience is a critical life skill from cradle to grave, And on our Resilience
20:33 website, which is resiliencegodstyle dot com, on Resilience website, I have a blog. And the blog, the 2 most popular articles on there, 1 is Raising Children Who Bounce,
20:45 you know, resilient children, and the other 1 is Resilient Aging. Those are the 2 bookends of life that are really challenging parts of resilience.
20:56 You actually have a board game that coworkers or friends or families can go through. Tell us just a little bit about the board game, because that would be great for anybody to walk it through.
21:08 Well, the vision is cross generational fun in the family over the dinner table. Aunt Susie is with little Johnny. You play in teams. You don't play by yourself, so you're on the hotspot.
21:19 You play in teams around the family or in groups. At many ICCI conferences, we've played this game. I did this game for 10 tables of 20 for the US Air Force at Langley
21:31 Air Force Base 1 time, and the point is it's a different way. The engine is 130 questions that are drawn from the content. I didn't invent the game, but the genius of it is that the facilitator, the
21:43 parent, whoever it happens to be, can identify the questions ahead of time. We even have blank cards so you can write in questions. So maybe your children are having a problem with bullying at school.
21:55 You write in a relevant question related to that that'll generate conversation and also generate some guidance from the group as you go through that. It's a lot of fun. We play it as a graduation
22:07 exercise every time here at National Center for Healthy Veterans. They go through a 12 week resilience curriculum, and then after that, for a lot more fun, we have a resilience exercise. And Kathleen usually wins it, and
22:18 they think I'm being biased, but I I don't know.
22:24 Well, I love that because so many times, I think in families, we're just trying to keep people fed and in school, and you start to go through the motions, and it just gets busy. Life is busy. And I
22:36 don't remember we kind of covertly teach life lessons a lot of times, but I think the intentionality, like you're talking about with your grandkids, of talking to them
22:47 about conflict resolution, talking with them about resilience. Who do you wanna be? Do you wanna be the egg, or do you wanna bounce like the tennis ball? That's 1 of the things I really love about the practicality of
22:59 what we're doing at Hope for the Heart, the practicality of your resilience, the books, the games, what you're doing with the veterans. We can talk about these things and teach these things. These
23:11 are concepts that it doesn't take a PhD, or we don't have to move to a remote island for a year and a half
23:21 and study turtles in order to understand. I mean, that would be a fun thing. But I'm just saying, like, it's not as difficult as so many times I think that we're afraid that it is, which is
23:33 a little bit of understanding. Resilient leaders, resilience god style, with just a little bit of this teaching, it can go a really long way for people.
23:41 Yeah. We've had some wonderful stories about people bringing this to bear in their families and the tremendous insights and impact it has. So
23:51 Yeah. So tell us how your work in the military at 1 point then turned into your ministry for the military. Tell us how you kind of got that heart for that to where
24:03 you have just gone all in to make a way for veterans who are hurting the most, and how did you get that call and make that switch?
24:14 Right. Right. Maybe unlike some, it wasn't that I got the call midlife. It was really that the moment I mentioned where I recommitted my
24:26 life, that was the fuse lit, and it sort of continued. And so during my entire 31 years in uniform, I was leading Bible studies or doing different types of things
24:37 and was as bold as possible in my faith. When I got to be a senior commander, you have to be innocent of wise as a serpent, but nevertheless, you maintain that identity, that Christian identity
24:49 first. And so when I retired, I went to work. My first big boy job was for Microsoft, and I had a lot of interaction with Bill Gates. And after 2 years, I went to Bill, and
25:01 I said, I'm gonna have to leave Microsoft because I have a new calling. And he said, What's that? Like, what's more important than computers? I said, Well, my peeps are killing themselves.
25:12 Yeah.
25:13 And so I felt like, in my heart of hearts, maybe God had prepared me and Kathleen to deal with these type of national level issues as much as anybody else or more,
25:24 and so we just felt like we'd been equipped. We've had that calling all along. It's just a little twist of focus on that. And then another precipitating moment was when I was a young lieutenant. I got a call.
25:36 I'd been there 3 weeks, 100 and first airborne, jumping out of airplanes. Life's good. I got a call to go to sergeant Smitty's house trailer, and sergeant Smitty had taken his life in the back room of the house trailer,
25:47 and then I'm left there with the young widow and her 3 year old daughter. So I say, Well, how can I help? And she said, Well, we had Easter eggs today. Would you come back in the morning, and let's gather Easter
25:59 eggs together and give my daughter a normal Easter? Tragic, life changing for them, obviously, but also tough medicine for me as a young leader. So that was seared, and I saw much more of that over
26:11 my 31 years in uniform. And, you know, at West Point, it's like they give you a tattoo on your forehead. Let's accomplish the mission. Take care of the troops. Accomplish the mission. Take care of the troops. So after I
26:23 graduated, 1 of my RTOs, radio telephone operators, died just nearby. And that was a powerful impact as well, and I think that went from my head to
26:35 my heart at that moment in time. And then when you see many others, particularly the blue collar workers of the military, the soldiers, sailor, airmen, marines, low ranking people and their families who are so selfless
26:46 in their service and just give it all. You know, it goes from your head to your heart to your gut, it really becomes a divine calling. So those soldiers, when I was on active duty, they
26:58 were active duty, but now that I'm retired, it's the same soldiers, same DNA, but some of them have gone through really hard times, and our purpose is to help them achieve their full God given potential. And
27:10 it's really a joyful thing. It's very meaningful to see them come full circle. Maybe they've been homeless for 15 years, or they've been incarcerated for an equal amount of time, or whatever, whatever. It's just
27:21 wonderful to see them go full circle and come out as a productive person.
27:28 Yeah. I would like to ask you, why would you say, in your experience and over the years working with so many, why does the trauma that they
27:40 experience lead to feelings of such hopelessness? And then how do you believe that resilience starts to restore hope? So
27:52 hope being what's lost and what's restored, hope is the pivotal piece. So why does trauma and the pain that they see equal to the thought of self hopelessness?
28:04 Well, as you would appreciate, there is a theory that once maturation stops at the moment of their severe trauma, and it might happen at ACE, adverse childhood experiences, or it may
28:16 happen their first really searing trauma is in the military. A buddy's killed or a mind goes off. So that's the first thing, is that sometimes you really have to
28:28 backtrack and figure out what all is underneath that ground level, and then deal with it. Some of them have dealt with it for so long that they just can't keep on
28:39 hoping, and some of them, because, you know, we emphasize community to defeat isolation, 1 of the primary causes of veteran suicide. So many of the ones that we
28:51 encounter have been isolated, and so when you're isolated, it's real easy to start believing all the wrong things, to engage in stinking thinking, if you will, to cast aside
29:02 hope, and to think all is dismal, and, you know, I will never be able to recover. So that isolation is an important dynamic, and when it goes on for so long, we get
29:14 people, you know, a fellow was driving down the roadthis was 3 weeks agoover 100 miles an hour on the road that goes by our farm. It's normally 60, and he was looking for a tree to
29:26 wrap his car around. He just happened to see our sign, so he he wheeled into a farm, came down the road, which is a mild dirt road, and then screeches to a halt right in front of our headquarters and runs out and starts
29:38 sort of screaming gibberish in the middle of a few of our people that were just there after a meeting, and 1 of our wise mentors, a military guy himself who's experienced lots of
29:50 loss, he reached out, and he grabbed this fellow by the arm, and he said, You're now in a safe place, okay? And then he engulfed him in a big bear hug. Seemed like it lasted
30:02 5 minutes, and so that was the point at which that soldier went from despair to hope. He knew that somebody else cared. He knew that he
30:13 had found a place that could help him understand, help him to grow, and so now he's in our program. He's in the third week of our program. Amen. And he's really doing well. I fished with him 2 nights
30:25 ago. How
30:28 big was the fish you caught, Bob?
30:33 There to there, I I caught a small, medium, and large.
30:37 Okay. Okay.
30:39 1 point of definition I did wanna ask about too is what's kind of the distinction between resilience and perseverance? Because you've mentioned a lot of these soldiers and veterans, it's like
30:52 they've experienced so much either trauma or loss that's just kind of like there's a sense in which you could have this mindset of like, I just need to persevere. I just need to get through the next thing and the next
31:01 thing and the next thing. What do I wanna say? There's just like a
31:04 Like an obligation.
31:06 Or just there's not like a wellness to it or an obligation to it of I just need to persevere. But and scripture does talk about persevering and all of that, so I I don't wanna, like, denigrate that
31:18 trait. But resilience seems to have kind of a different aspect to it where there's Mhmm.
31:23 Yeah. Gutting it out or, like
31:26 Yeah.
31:27 Yeah. I get what you're saying.
31:28 Yeah. So how would you kinda distinguish those 2?
31:31 Well, I wouldn't really distinguish between them. I would nest them. In my mind, resilience is the broad overarching concept. It's the quality of being able to navigate adversity, but
31:43 perseverance is 1 of the things that happens within, under the resilience umbrella. Romans five:three-five, it talks about how we move over this progression, and 1 of the items in that
31:54 progression is perseverance, and then it ends with hope, and isn't that interesting? So let me amp out for a second on that. Perseverance in the Greek means, is
32:06 moving towards strength. Now that's sort of ironic because if you're trying to climb a mountain, as I often did with ranger training and stuff like that, if you're trying to climb a mountain, you're getting
32:18 weaker and weaker and weaker as you go up the mountain. So what is this all about moving towards strength? Well, the only way you can it makes sense if you recognize the spiritual dynamic. In ranger
32:30 school, we had a a rope climbing technique. It was just a mental device where you would pretend like you had an imaginary rope, and you would help yourself pull yourself up the mountain, and it it just, you know, helps
32:42 with a a little more edge on getting up there. Well, if you're a Christian and you recognize that Jesus is the anchor of our soul and Jesus is on the other end of that rope,
32:54 as we get weaker in the physical, we get stronger and stronger in the spiritual, and eventually we're right next to Jesus. So that's a pretty powerful concept, I think, of how do we
33:06 look at adversity, and then how do we persevere through things that in the vernacular there's a silver lining in recognizing that you really are moving closer to Jesus despite the hardship of what you're doing. Does
33:18 that make sense?
33:19 Yeah. I like that because I was thinking there's a sense in which perseverance is just kind of like, I'm just gonna grit through it and all of that. But, yeah, I like that idea of moving towards strength and has a bitShow more
Comments No comments yet. Start the conversation.
Comments
Keep it kind. Comments are public.