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How Taya Kyle Found Hope in Christ
April 10, 2025 · 1 hr 4 min
In this episode, Haley and Dustin sit down with Taya Kyle, the wife of the late Navy Seal Chris Kyle from the American Sniper story.
Taya shares her hope story of how the Lord helped her navigate her children’s grief, as well as her own, in the aftermath of Chris’ tragic death. She reflects on the lessons she learned about parenting, faith, and God’s grace in our grief. She also discusses her latest children’s book, Prayers for Bears, and the importance of gratitude. Taya also shares about the work she’s doing with military families through the Taya and Chris Kyle Foundation, the uniqueness of military family struggles, and how we can help.
Subscribe to the podcast and tune in each week as Haley and Dustin share with you what the Bible says about real-life issues with compassion, warmth, and wit.
So you have every reason for hope, for every challenge in life. Because hope means everything.
Hope Talks is a podcast of the ministry of Hope for the Heart.
Listen in to learn more :
(06:51) Intensifying Faith Amid Loss
(18:20) Prioritizing Loved Ones Over Work
(29:17) Healing and Grief After Loss
(38:21) Navigating Grief and Finding Hope
(43:13) Finding Faith Through Obedience
(46:25) Spontaneous Kenya Trip Saves Time
(51:56) Enhancing Service Marriages Through Coaching
(58:51) God's Nudging in Life
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Taya Kyle resources
Learn more about the Taya and Chris Kyle Foundation – Service Marriage Strong: https://www.tackf.org/
Learn more about Taya Kyle: https://tayakyle.com/
Get Taya’s children’s book, Prayers for Bears: https://tinyurl.com/49hj9myf
Connect with Taya on social media:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tayakyle/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TayaKyleAmericanWife/
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Hope for the Heart resources :
Connect with Hope for the Heart on social!
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hopefortheheart
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hopefortheheart
Learn more about the ministry and resources of Hope for the Heart: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/
Learn more about Hope Talks and catch up on past episodes: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/hopetalks/
Want to talk with June Hunt on Hope in the Night about a difficult life issue? Schedule a time here: https://resource.hopefortheheart.org/talk-with-june-hope-in-the-night
God’s plan for you: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/gods-plan-for-you/
Give to the ministry of Hope for the Heart: https://raisedonors.com/hopefortheheart/givehope?sc=HTPDON
Learn about our summer event on Mental Health and the Church: https://resource.hopefortheheart.org/mental-health-and-the-church
Sign up for our fall Hope Together conference: https://hopetogether.com/
--------------
Bible verses mentioned in this episode
Matthew 5:4 – “Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.”
John 11:21-26, 32-35 -- “Lord,” Martha said to Jesus, “if you had been here, my brother would not have died. But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask.” Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die, and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?” … When Mary reached the place where Jesus was and saw him, she fell at his feet and said, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.” When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled. “Where have you laid him?” he asked. “Come and see, Lord,” they replied. Jesus wept.”
James 4:6 – “But he gives us more grace.”
Series Hope Talks
Hope for the Heart is a worldwide biblical counseling, coaching, and caregiving ministry founded by June Hunt in 1986. We’re passionate about helping people
April 10, 2025 · 1 hr 4 min · Hope Talks
In this episode, Haley and Dustin sit down with Taya Kyle, the wife of the late Navy Seal Chris Kyle from the American Sniper story. Taya shares her hope story of how the Lord helped her navigate her children’s grief, as well as her own, in the aftermath of Chris’ tragic death. She reflects on the lessons she learned about parenting, faith, and God’s grace in our grief. She also discusses her latest children’s book, Prayers for Bears, and the importance of gratitude. Taya also shares about the work she’s doing with military families through the Taya and Chris Kyle Foundation, the uniqueness of military family struggles, and how we can help. Subscribe to the podcast and tune in each week as Haley and Dustin share with you what the Bible says about real-life issues with compassion, warmth, and wit. So you have every reason for hope, for every challenge in life. Because hope means everything. Hope Talks is a podcast of the ministry of Hope for the Heart. Listen in to learn more : (06:51) Intensifying Faith Amid Loss (18:20) Prioritizing Loved Ones Over Work (29:17) Healing and Grief After Loss (38:21) Navigating Grief and Finding Hope (43:13) Finding Faith Through Obedience (46:25) Spontaneous Kenya Trip Saves Time (51:56) Enhancing Service Marriages Through Coaching (58:51) God's Nudging in Life -------------- Taya Kyle resources Learn more about the Taya and Chris Kyle Foundation – Service Marriage Strong: https://www.tackf.org/ Learn more about Taya Kyle: https://tayakyle.com/ Get Taya’s children’s book, Prayers for Bears: https://tinyurl.com/49hj9myf Connect with Taya on social media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tayakyle/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TayaKyleAmericanWife/ ---------------------------- Hope for the Heart resources : Connect with Hope for the Heart on social! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hopefortheheart Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hopefortheheart Learn more about the ministry and resources of Hope for the Heart: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/ Learn more about Hope Talks and catch up on past episodes: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/hopetalks/ Want to talk with June Hunt on Hope in the Night about a difficult life issue? Schedule a time here: https://resource.hopefortheheart.org/talk-with-june-hope-in-the-night God’s plan for you: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/gods-plan-for-you/ Give to the ministry of Hope for the Heart: https://raisedonors.com/hopefortheheart/givehope?sc=HTPDON Learn about our summer event on Mental Health and the Church: https://resource.hopefortheheart.org/mental-health-and-the-church Sign up for our fall Hope Together conference: https://hopetogether.com/ -------------- Bible verses mentioned in this episode Matthew 5:4 – “Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.” John 11:21-26, 32-35 -- “Lord,” Martha said to Jesus, “if you had been here, my brother would not have died. But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask.” Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die, and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?” … When Mary reached the place where Jesus was and saw him, she fell at his feet and said, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.” When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled. “Where have you laid him?” he asked. “Come and see, Lord,” they replied. Jesus wept.” James 4:6 – “But he gives us more grace.” ...more Show the full description Show less In this episode, Haley and Dustin sit down with Taya Kyle, the wife of the late Navy Seal Chris Kyle from the American Sniper story.
Taya shares her hope story of how the Lord helped her navigate her children’s grief, as well as her own, in the aftermath of Chris’ tragic death. She reflects on the lessons she learned about parenting, faith, and God’s grace in our grief. She also discusses her latest children’s book, Prayers for Bears, and the importance of gratitude. Taya also shares about the work she’s doing with military families through the Taya and Chris Kyle Foundation, the uniqueness of military family struggles, and how we can help.
Subscribe to the podcast and tune in each week as Haley and Dustin share with you what the Bible says about real-life issues with compassion, warmth, and wit.
So you have every reason for hope, for every challenge in life. Because hope means everything.
Hope Talks is a podcast of the ministry of Hope for the Heart.
Listen in to learn more :
(06:51) Intensifying Faith Amid Loss
(18:20) Prioritizing Loved Ones Over Work
(29:17) Healing and Grief After Loss
(38:21) Navigating Grief and Finding Hope
(43:13) Finding Faith Through Obedience
(46:25) Spontaneous Kenya Trip Saves Time
(51:56) Enhancing Service Marriages Through Coaching
(58:51) God's Nudging in Life
--------------
Taya Kyle resources
Learn more about the Taya and Chris Kyle Foundation – Service Marriage Strong: https://www.tackf.org/
Learn more about Taya Kyle: https://tayakyle.com/
Get Taya’s children’s book, Prayers for Bears: https://tinyurl.com/49hj9myf
Connect with Taya on social media:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tayakyle/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TayaKyleAmericanWife/
----------------------------
Hope for the Heart resources :
Connect with Hope for the Heart on social!
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hopefortheheart
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hopefortheheart
Learn more about the ministry and resources of Hope for the Heart: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/
Learn more about Hope Talks and catch up on past episodes: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/hopetalks/
Want to talk with June Hunt on Hope in the Night about a difficult life issue? Schedule a time here: https://resource.hopefortheheart.org/talk-with-june-hope-in-the-night
God’s plan for you: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/gods-plan-for-you/
Give to the ministry of Hope for the Heart: https://raisedonors.com/hopefortheheart/givehope?sc=HTPDON
Learn about our summer event on Mental Health and the Church: https://resource.hopefortheheart.org/mental-health-and-the-church
Sign up for our fall Hope Together conference: https://hopetogether.com/
--------------
Bible verses mentioned in this episode
Matthew 5:4 – “Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.”
John 11:21-26, 32-35 -- “Lord,” Martha said to Jesus, “if you had been here, my brother would not have died. But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask.” Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die, and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?” … When Mary reached the place where Jesus was and saw him, she fell at his feet and said, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.” When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled. “Where have you laid him?” he asked. “Come and see, Lord,” they replied. Jesus wept.”
James 4:6 – “But he gives us more grace.”
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0:00 So I have learned tremendous grace with myself, and I'm still on that road, as you know, trying to find a little bit of of the middle ground. Because you're right. I do, you know, think, okay. I'm the only 1, and I've0:11 gotta and we've lost so many family members through grief handled poorly and greed and, you know, just a lot of stuff that's been really painful. So I am learning that I did the best0:23 I could with the information I had at the time. Mhmm. That is a mantra that I have to and I encourage everybody to say it. I did the best I could with the information I had at the time. Now I have different0:35 information.0:36 Right.0:36 But I didn't have it then.0:39 Welcome to Hope Talks. We're your hosts. I'm Haley Scully along with Dustin Anderson, and we wanna give you every reason for hope for every challenge in life because hope means everything.0:53 Dustin, do you see who's over my shoulder? Yes. It's Dustin. I'm excited. I am. I'm very excited. It is Hope Talks guest today, and we have Taya1:04 Kyle with us.1:06 Yep. He's pointing for everyone.1:07 That's right. Oh, yeah. I forgot some people can't see it. But, Taya, we're so glad that you're here. We're excited for this conversation, and just thank you for being here.1:17 Thank you for having1:17 me. Yeah. Yeah. Dustin, tell us a little bit about who Teya Kyle is.
1:22 Yeah. For those who don't know, we're friends. I know you're very dear friends. And I think a lot of people know Teya, author, speaker, and a lot of issues related to faith, grief, resilience, overcoming adversity.
1:33 Many know Teya as the wife of late Navy SEAL, Chris Kyle, and the American Sniper Story, mother of 2, Colton and McKenna. We've also had Colton on the podcast a few months ago. He did great, by the way.
1:45 He was awesome. Yeah. He was so encouraging. Author of a couple of books. 1 of them, New American Wife, American Spirit, and Prayers for Bears, a children's book. And I'm excited to talk about that a little bit
1:57 later, but also founder of the Thea and Chris Kyle Foundation, helping support military and first responder marriages. So might get into that a little bit, but we've had a number of connections already. I think couple
2:09 years ago, did it start at the Hope Together Conference? You've did a course with us with general Dees for our ICCI training, our Christian life coaching training. And I think you've developed
2:20 a a good friendship over the last couple years. And we've had, again, we've had Colton on, and so it's great to kinda come full circle here.
2:29 Yeah. I love it. Yeah. It's a very comfortable place to be.
2:32 Good. Thank you. We do like to host people, so that is fun. So, Teya, I think a lot of people feel like they know your story. I don't know how weird that is
2:43 sometimes just thinking that people know you. I mean, you have shared a lot of your story, and that's been an incredible part of what you have given to people. But we ask people kind of what is your hope story? And
2:54 sometimes it may be exactly the story that we know, and you may wanna share about that today. It may be you know, some people, it's the time that they accepted Christ as their savior, that they really learn to hope. For
3:05 Hope Talks, we feel like hope is sometimes a little bit theoretical. And some of us have those moments where we really learned, like, to put our hope in Christ and what that looks like. We wanna make hope kind of real
3:16 and practical for people. So that's always our question. Like, what is your hope story? When is the time that you really learned to lean into Christ for your hope?
3:25 Yeah. I appreciate it. I was thinking about that on the way up here, and my whole life has changed with my faith. And I can't imagine what it would be like without hope. So I have it in so many different ways.
3:37 But I was thinking today of the people who might be listening or watching, and there was 1 really powerful moment that I had where I felt like McKenna, my daughter, and I just
3:49 sort of missed the mark. I felt like the generational things in my family were affecting me in a way that I couldn't quite get out of my own way. And she was really close to her dad. And frankly, while he was alive,
4:01 I thought, well, good, she's gonna have that and that'll be enough. And I I sort of leaned into them having this great relationship. Not that I didn't. It's hard to explain, but I think if people have been there, they
4:11 know. They're not connecting as fully as they believe they could, but they're still connecting. Right? So anyway, after Chris was killed, Colton and I grieved similarly, McKenna grieved differently. She wasn't getting as
4:23 much of what she needed and I didn't know how. And I had this moment. So she was probably 14 or 15. Kris was killed when she was 6, almost 7. And I remember laying in bed and she was laying
4:35 in the bed next to me asleep and feeling so brokenhearted and sorry that I couldn't fix this thing. It was like I couldn't break this generational thing. And I just
4:46 cried and told God, I'm sorry. I'm sorry because she's your child before she's mine. And I've broken her heart, and I did it in ways that I can't go back and fix because there's a window of
4:58 time. Right? And if you miss something foundational, then I just felt like I couldn't figure out how to do it. And so I just remember crying and saying, God, just please mend her where I broke her. Fix
5:10 it for me and give me the eyes of the holy spirit to see her when I wake up tomorrow. Let me see it differently so I can see what I'm missing. And it was just a very humble and sad and
5:22 heartbreaking prayer because I really felt like the hope for that area was gone. And it was like a hail Mary to God. Could you? Will you? And he did. I mean, I woke up the
5:34 next morning and saw things differently in her and that were powerful for me and ways to access her. And over the next week, I saw her healing in ways that were
5:45 not me. And I thought, oh my god. Like, it would take too long probably to go back through all the dynamics, but I'm telling you the ways that I felt like it was broken. It was too I could start fresh, but I couldn't go
5:56 back and fix. And he's like, I can, though, and I will. So for me, the parenting part of that was so powerful that I couldn't do it
6:08 perfectly in the first place. I assure as heck couldn't do it as well as I wanted to after Chris was killed. And it wasn't just his murder and death and the death of our friend. It was lawsuits and a movie
6:20 and books and change and movie. I mean, it was just insane. And so I fell far from what I wanted to be. And I'm just here to tell people that God will mend relationships. He will mend the
6:32 brokenhearted for you on your behalf. And I think sometimes he wants us to be the advocate for that. You know? He wants us to say, will you do this for me? Because it was between me and
6:44 her. So I think that
6:47 is for some reason, I think there's so many parents that, like, even if you have faith or even if you, like, are in church and all of this, there's, this little piece that, like, but in raising my kids, kind of it's on
6:58 me. And you start to take even more responsibility and even sometimes more blame of the circumstances and the situations. And I don't know if losing
7:10 Chris kind of made that intensify. Is that intensify? Yeah. Okay. Sometimes I don't say real words.
7:17 You can make up words. I'll go down that
7:18 road with Intensify intensification. I'll just okay. Yeah. But if that made it more so and then it's like, you know, that scripture where Apollos says, like, even more grace, where there's more brokenness, there's
7:30 more grace.
7:31 Yes.
7:31 And leaning into God in a way that maybe you wouldn't have even done or had the opportunity to do. So how did, like, your faith in that and just trusting God in that, how did
7:43 you see that kind of play out then over the next few years?
7:46 Everything. I mean, I continue to pray for it. We continued to have different areas of struggle, which were so important because without breaking it down, we couldn't have gotten to where we got. I mean,
7:58 now it's, I mean, she goes to college 30 minutes from our house and she comes home every day just to say hi and laugh and, and be sweet. And then she goes back, you know, it could be 20 minutes. It could be a half hour,
8:08 but she loves to check-in. I love to check-in with her. It wasn't just a 1 and done. Right? Like that was the beginning. And there were other times where I still didn't get it right. And I've had those
8:19 moments again, crying, God, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. She's your child. And I'm, I have this image of, if you're the parent and you have younger children and a teenager and you leave the teenager in charge of the younger
8:31 ones, feed them, take care of them, make sure they don't get hurt and call me if there's a bigger issue. I'm not expecting you, teenager, to have all the answers and the experience and the wisdom
8:43 that I have. And in my mind, I'm the teenager. God is the father, and these are my kids. And he's like, Teya, I didn't expect you to have all the wisdom. I expected you to feed them, clothe them, love them the
8:55 best you could, and call me with any questions. If something needs to be fixed, I'm the guy, not you. And so it's been humbling and beautiful. And it's not just I mean, I
9:07 said it. It's true. There are so many areas of my life, but whether it's work, I think a lot of times in America, we think we should have dream jobs and we should be so happy at work. And and that is the ideal. I've had
9:18 so many different areas of a career that I thought could be that weren't, that might be, what should I do? And searching for something that was God driven and
9:29 frankly not stupid. Like, didn't wanna miss opportunities that he put before me. At the same time, I had kids and I was a mom first. And so I had to lean into hope of, I'm gonna say no.
9:41 And I hope, God, that you'll work it out. I hope that there's grace for me from these people. I hope that you have other opportunities. I still have those feelings. I mean, an author and a speaker and
9:53 somebody who runs a foundation, when does it run out? None of them are secure. You know? None of them are like Apple that you pretty much believe is gonna be around forever. Just don't do a bad job, and you should
10:04 probably have your job. You know? And so that's required a lot of trust, I would say, but it's also it's a hope too. It's saying, I hope you continue to bring me opportunities in ways that
10:16 matter.
10:17 Yeah. I like the imagery. I just wanna say, like and maybe this is a good time to go ahead and to apologize to my brother for the number of times that I would call my mom and tattle on him when he was my babysitter in
10:28 the summer. But I think even with that image, thinking of us as the kids and even our parents as the teens and how, like, if Kris even looked at me wrong or didn't make my sandwich right, and then I would call my
10:40 mom at Conoco where she worked and be like you know? But how we can take that to the Lord, how young people can take that to the Lord or even demonstrating that for your kids,
10:51 like, they can go to God and say, hey. Help me in this. Or I see my mom trying really hard, but it's not you know, like, we make their connection or us making a connection to God
11:03 when we're struggling with our parents. I mean, it kind of never ends. I just I'd never thought of it like that. Like, we're the teens. Yeah. And thinking our parents are the teens and your kids can realize that for you
11:13 and have grace and compassion for you.
11:15 They need a lot of it. You know? A lot of grace and compassion. You know? But it's true because it's your parents, our parents, it's their first time being a parent when they raise us, and it's their first time parenting
11:26 your personality. Right? So I have an older sister. It was their first time being a parent with my sister, but it was the first time parenting my personality with me. And they weren't gonna get it. It different. It's
11:38 very different. And I still struggle to this day sometimes with wishing my parents had done things differently or to this day going, you can do better with there have been situations in our family that have come
11:50 up that have blown us all away. And I still find myself going, step up. And the truth is they are stepping up the best they can. And God's teaching me a lot of grace and a lot
12:02 of, hope, frankly, that He can work through me and I need to let go of what I wanted them to be. Right? And so I think getting out of my own head and saying,
12:13 okay, they are not my ultimate parents. God is my father. They are just fellow travelers. Right? They're just walking through this world like me, stumbling, and that's a whole other episode
12:25 or season. But I do think it comes back to the hope and the trust. I kinda lump those together with God is that you'll figure it out. And I don't know when and I don't know how, but you will figure it out,
12:37 God. So I'm gonna trust you. And I couldn't have that trust without having hope. I don't think they could be separated.
12:46 I love that perspective. I have 3 girls ages 12, 9, and 6. And it is really difficult navigating each of their own personalities. And
12:58 you didn't say this term, but it made me think of parental guilt. Yes. If just that feeling of, like and that prayer of, like, Lord, don't let my own sin and brokenness and
13:09 fallenness and limitedness and all of that just influence or damage them in some way, and you have these moments where it feels like, oh, there's no going back from that. But at the same time, I think there is
13:21 so much hope because despite our fallenness, like, God can still use that and as a way to develop them or, you know, even work through that and
13:33 kind of heal them or open your eyes to see them in new ways that you haven't before. I feel like that's just an encouragement for people that parental guilt. It's just like, remember, we don't have all the answers. We're
13:44 not expected to. Like, God's the 1 who's our father and has that. So I love that. But I also wanted to just ask too just like a little bit more on just how did you kinda navigate
13:56 that? Because you said Colton kinda you and him were a little bit more similar in how you navigated that grief and than it was with McKenna. Like, has it kind of changed
14:08 over the years? Is it like how is it different now?
14:11 And Yeah. No. It's a brilliant question. And I kind of was thinking I'm like, you have extra guilt because sins of the father last gens generation. So I'm just the mom. No. Just kidding.
14:21 I'm just kidding.
14:22 But, I mean, in truth, I do love that prayer. And I would say, I think what I learned is the specific prayer because I would pray in general for my kids or sometimes when it was really hard. I don't know if anybody else
14:33 experiences this, but sometimes when my emotions are really big, I don't wanna be the 1 praying. I wanna ask other people to pray because I I feel like I'm gonna get in my own head or I'm gonna it's, like, too big. And I
14:44 feel like God also waited for me. Like, I appreciate their prayers and they matter, but I put you connected with her intimately, and it's your prayer I wanna hear. Right? And so I think it's very good
14:56 to pray specifically for those moments that we have with our kids and to share. So to answer your question about their process, I think I did what probably a lot of parents do, which
15:08 is you're just gonna have to toughen up. Come on. Like, I told myself this was gonna be character building. I told myself she would learn to do things differently. And God gave me a strong 2
15:20 strong children. And I'm so, so grateful because I think I'm a very strong person too, and I gave my parents a run for their money.
15:28 What? Yeah. A little bit.
15:31 But she is stronger than I am. And so sorry. I just saw on your wall, see Kyle, which is Colton's, but it looks a lot like Chris's signature, and that freaked me out for a second. I was like I said my heart go We have
15:41 our guests signed
15:42 the wall when they're here.
15:43 So
15:43 He was our first.
15:44 Yeah. He was the first 1 to sign. Was like, Chris wasn't here. And then I'm like, yeah. Wait. Colton. So well, Chris is here.
15:49 He is.
15:50 Back to your witness. If
15:52 you give
15:52 me 10 minutes, I'll eventually get there. So what I didn't do was stop and listen. She needed the world to stop and slow down. Period. And I was saying the world can't stop and slow
16:04 down. We gotta go. Like, this is it. You gotta step up. And when she wouldn't, I would start this thing of, you know, you're not doing this. You're not doing that. And I would go through a laundry list, which for someone
16:15 like her just overwhelmed her to the point of paralyzing and wanting to escape it instead of what I was thinking would be like, you gotta start somewhere. You got
16:23 a long list, girl.
16:24 You better start and get, you know?
16:26 Challenging her, but it right.
16:28 So I think if I could have listened and accepted, which is so ironic because I've said this forever that our children are not of us. They come through us. They are who they are from the time in the
16:39 womb. I mean, Colton was a lot more active when I was pregnant with him and McKenna just wasn't. And yet I still kind of missed the boat, which was she needed things to stop and she needed me to stop. And a
16:51 huge part of our healing, I would say, okay, well then how about 1 hour a day? I'm absolutely yours and we'll do whatever you want. Right? If it's a puzzle, if it's and I would always wanna talk and connect.
17:03 And I just remember her patience with me, but like tears, you know, and I'm like, do we have to talk about something always? And I'm thinking, well, isn't that what we're doing? Like, we're here for a purpose. Let's do
17:14 what we're you know, we're here to bond and connect. Connect. And yeah. What she really taught me was and it's also interesting because Chris was teaching me this at the time. So god's like, there's a a song you can take
17:25 the workman, but the work's never done. Right? Like, you can take this workman, Chris, and what he was doing with Taya, but the work isn't done because I've got McKenna and she's still gonna teach that same lesson. The
17:34 devil doesn't win. And so anyway, what I learned is I had to sit with her and watch TV. Right? And I would think, oh my god, there's so many other things that I have to be doing because this whole house of cards is gonna
17:45 fall. If like, you know, house of cards, meaning precariously holding together, and I'm only 1 person and I'm the worker and the mom and the house in garden. And the more I would just do that, the more
17:57 we started to heal. So the more I would do nothing sort of with her and sit, maybe we have a look when we're watching a show or maybe, and I had to get out of my own way. So if that's her and that's what she needed,
18:09 she needed me to stop doing what I thought she needed or what I thought she could benefit from and just listen to her and do what she needed. So I've learned that. And we had other things too, a really powerful
18:21 situation recently when she would go to events with me, she'd feel like she was going to throw up. And so we kept kind of talking and working through it. Well, it turns out basically it's trauma from when she was a kid
18:30 that she had to stuff because she couldn't feel that now she can feel because I'm in a better place. And she could not get me when she needed me because I would say, well, I'm traveling with my kids and a homeschool
18:41 teacher. So I'm being a good mom. I'm making sure we all get time together. Right. And what she needed was for me to stop and she needed other people and my work to not be more important. But she also knew the work was
18:52 important. So she thought, what kind of jerk would she be if she said make me important? Right. So she had something she didn't like that she couldn't dislike and be a good person in her mind. And I was like,
19:04 oh my gosh. She just needs to know that something else can wait while she heals and that I am willing to do something that she can't do because she can't
19:15 say, don't go to that. She didn't feel she could cause she thought it was important. Yeah. So for me to say you're more important was what she needed. So that kind of experience over and over
19:27 gives me incredible hope that God has never finished with our story. It's never too late. He's gonna give us second chance, third chance, fourth chance. He's not giving up. And that it's okay if we didn't get it right.
19:39 The parent guilt, it's okay because guess what? He's gonna give us other opera I still want things for my parents, and I'm 35 or 51 of those 2. And, you know, and I still want things. So meaning my parents could still
19:51 give me a gift that I need. It's never over.
19:54 Yeah. Yeah. The 1 thing that I know about you, the very first, nope, the second time we met, you came in and we had a chance to talk with you, like, for the heart and TACF kind of conversation. That's how it
20:05 led to the invitation to the Hope Together conference where you spoke. And that night, as you spoke, like, afterward, there were things going on, and you just graciously asked me to pray for McKenna and pray
20:17 for so 1 thing that led to just kind of the connection and the friendship, and then we had opportunity to go to Kenya last year, which was incredible, and the Lord just gave us such a gift in that time. And I'm gonna go
20:28 and say with Rachel, Amanda, and Dana. Just to get their names in this. Yeah. Because they will want their names there. Yes. The main the main thing that I know about
20:40 you is you are ferocious, and I'm gonna use that word, love and protection of your kids. Every parent loves and wants to protect their kids in their way.
20:51 But I think because of what happened with your family and the exposure of it, like, you came around them and your love for your kids is evident. So I'm circling this back
21:03 to the voice you hear about yourself. Like, I keep hearing you say how you messed it up and how you missed the boat and how all of those things. So I wanna ask you, like, from
21:15 a Hope Talks host person, not from your friend. You can do both. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Because, like, I wanna I love your kids, but I love you. And I want your compassion for
21:26 yourself in that story to grow because I see you taking care of everybody and walking through, not just stumbling through things, but striding
21:38 through things and through difficult things and always with that perspective. I mean, you're out there cutting the roses off the rose bush. You're out there mowing the lawn in your big tractor. You know? Like, you
21:50 are constantly taking care of others and taking care of things. So talk to me about how through all of that, and if you haven't started to grow that compassion for yourself, then this is where it will start,
22:01 Dustin. It will start on hope time. Yes. It will. Compassion for Taya. That's gonna be prayers for bears and compassion for Taya.
22:08 Okay. Perfect. Yeah.
22:09 Actually, you
22:09 know what, Hayley? I'm super glad that you brought that up because it's really, really important. 1 of the biggest things for me healing with McKenna was this moment that I had with a therapist who taught me about Ho O
22:19 Pono Pono. Have you heard of this?
22:21 No, but I would like to sing that.
22:23 Let's hear it.
22:23 Yes. It sounds like song. Ho O Pono O Pono. Okay. That's perfect.
22:27 Thank I think you could add some princess flare to it and make it amazing. Kusten, this is the response I want from me singing. When she says that, you
22:33 can a bird.
22:34 Princess flare. Okay.
22:36 Yeah. The birds fly in. That's good. Yeah. In her mind, they're flying in. Yeah. There's like an open Yeah. But it's a Hawaiian term, and it
22:47 means, I'm sorry. Forgive me. Thank you. I love you. Okay? And it's to ourselves. And it can be to others, but the way I learned it was to myself. So when I was having this moment
22:59 of, again, like, I missed it with McKenna trying to avoid this generational thing. I kind of and my therapist was like, look. That part of you was trying to protect her. That part of you that
23:11 was trying to say Chris is a better parent for her was trying to protect her. So stop hating that part of you. Stop beating that part of you up. Instead, say, I'm sorry for trying to beat you up to myself.
23:23 Please forgive me for trying to wish you never existed. Thank you for trying to protect her the best you knew how, and I love you for that. So I have
23:35 learned tremendous grace with myself, and I'm still on that road, as you know, trying to find a little bit of of the middle ground. Because you're right. I do, you know, think, okay. I'm the only 1, and I've gotta and
23:46 we've lost so many family members through grief handled poorly and greed and, you know, just a lot of stuff that's been really painful. So I am learning that I did the best I could
23:59 with the information I had at the time. That is a mantra that I have to and I encourage everybody to say it. I did the best I could with the information I had at the time. Now I have different information,
24:10 but
24:10 I didn't have it then. And so I think when God asks us to stay in the present, it's because He knows we didn't have all the information then. And so He also knows
24:22 our nature would be to sometimes go back and regret and, you know, and he's like, no, no. You didn't have the information. Today is I'm asking you to focus on today because today you have that information. If that
24:32 situation presents itself, now you'll know. Yeah. Don't look in the future because you don't have all the information you're gonna need then either. I am working on that, and I think it's been an interesting road of
24:43 second chances and third chances for me to do it better. I mean, I've given my kids permission to, like, when you tell me an issue, I might jump to all these ideas I have. Right? I
24:55 think Colton talked about that on your podcast too. He's like, yeah, she got it. And so I need reminders sometimes too. And then the point is don't be if for me, it's grace for myself that, oh, I did
25:06 mess that up again. Oh, I do wanna work on that. And it's not oh, stupid me, or, oh, I get or why do you you know? It's like, oh, I did say I was gonna work on that. Let me try that again. Yeah. You know?
25:16 Yeah. God, you're gonna have to get up earlier in the morning, Tamaya, because you gotta remind me of these things.
25:22 Remind me.
25:23 I think sometimes we talk about God is in our future. I mean, there was an Oswald Chambers in my utmost for his highest, his little daily devotional, and I think it's in July. But there was 1 I read in college 1
25:35 time, and it was don't calculate without God. And I know, like, in my life, there's a lot of times I have to remind myself of that. Don't look at my future. Don't calculate without God because he's gonna be there.
25:47 Like, when I'm older and wondering where I'll be and what it's gonna look like, like, don't calculate. Don't look at that and not remember that God's gonna be in those moments. And I think the same is looking back at our
25:58 past. Don't calculate our past and those moments without God. I had a conversation with my uncle Mike 1 time. Hey, uncle Mike.
26:06 What's up, uncle Mike?
26:07 What's up? Hey. And he is just he's such a good brother to my mom. He's such a good person. Like, he loves people. He loves the Lord. And when my grandma passed away, we were having a conversation
26:19 that kind of centered around, you know, when something happened like, oh, he wished he would have thought this and he wished he would have done this different. And just like we always do in those moments. And it was
26:29 like, you know, God was with you then. And if you had needed to do that so differently in order for him to fulfill his purposes, in order for him to whatever, like, don't look
26:40 back at you in those years and forget that God was there. Not just for him because I think he's almost perfect. He's a great dude. But for, like, all of this
26:50 god. Right?
26:51 Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Now my grandma would have said he was perfect. Like, we have all she was still making his sandwiches when he was, you know, in his fifties. Yeah. It's a joke in our family. But I think that's
27:00 so important for us to not look back at those moments and see them without God's presence. Like, he was in it, and he was with you, and he was there. And there's nothing that we have done that can undo the grace
27:12 that he has for us today, but it's so hard.
27:16 Well, you're right. And I do say this too, and it's cool because Colton and McKenna now say these things kind of back to me, but I'll say nothing I do surprises God. He gave these children to me knowing what I would do.
27:27 Right? And he knew that it would be okay. And he knew that they would learn something, you know, that we can agree. And and they are incredible people and we have very tight bonds. And I'm I'm very grateful
27:39 for that. And none of that happens without God in the picture. None of it. And they have tremendous grace for me. Yeah. Like, it's been a cool thing to experience that too.
27:48 Yeah. They're fun.
27:49 Yeah. I'm gonna try and connect a couple of different thoughts because you're making me think about a lot of stuff, especially with parenting. But 2 things, 1 of them I shared with, I think when John Seidl was here of
27:59 just like that idea of the areas that we struggle with the most. That's where God wants to love us the most. So there's that idea, but also love us the most in the
28:11 way that we need it and we'll receive it. So like when you were talking about just the difference of how Colton and McKenna handled things, it reminded me of that story where
28:22 Lazarus died and his sisters are both grieving and Jesus, where were you if you would have been here? All of that. And they both come to him with the same statement. If you would have been here, my brother would not have
28:32 died. And with the first 1, I always forget which 1, I think Martha, she says that and he says, I'm the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me will never die. And he gives her truth.
28:43 And then Mary comes to him and says the same exact thing. But with her, he doesn't say anything. He weeps. I always love that story because he needs us where we are. And so I thought about that in
28:55 connection with your daughter, like, maybe with Colton, it was 1 way, but with her, was like, I need you to sit and watch TV with me. Like, that's how I'm gonna be healed and receive love. And so just that idea of like,
29:07 God loves us the most where we need it, but also in a way that we receive it.
29:12 That's powerful.
29:13 Yeah. And so it just that idea of he's with us, but in a way that we receive it. But wanted to ask just the healing you've experienced now and like the information
29:25 and stuff you have now, like, how is this kind of the grief or the memories kind of I mean, it's been 12 12 Like, because I've little bit of my story, like, I've lost both of my parents.
29:36 1, my mom when I was 16, my dad when I was 27. So there's a weirdness to it when it's time has gone and you've healed, but it's always still a little bit there. There's like a weirdness sometimes of like,
29:49 I've healed and I feel almost guilty about that. Yeah. But it's also like the power of God to heal me and help me grow. So I'm just just wanted to ask a little bit of like, how's that journey been? How is itShow more
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