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Abuse Recovery: Taking Steps Toward Healing
February 20, 2025 · 50 min
Abuse can make you feel powerless, worthless, and hopeless. But healing is available in Christ.
In this episode, Haley and Dustin discuss the impact abuse can have on a person and how God can heal us from past pain. With vulnerability and compassion, they share stories and walk through some practical, biblical steps we can take to move toward healing and recovery.
Listen now – it’s such an encouraging story and conversation on addiction, recovery, and the hope we have in Christ.
Subscribe to the podcast and tune in each week as Haley and Dustin share with you what the Bible says about real-life issues with compassion, warmth, and wit.
So you have every reason for hope, for every challenge in life. Because hope means everything.
Hope Talks is a podcast of the ministry of Hope for the Heart.
Listen in to learn more
(05:07) Understanding the Impact of Abuse
(13:57) Recovery From Past Abuse and Mistreatment
(20:25) Healing From Childhood Trauma
(22:05) Understanding & Addressing Personal Responsibility
(26:14) Processing Childhood Realizations and Forgiveness
(30:29) Steps to Healing From Past Trauma
(38:42) Integrating Recovery Into Daily Life
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Abuse Recovery hotlines & resources
National Domestic Violence Hotline: Call 800-799-7233 or text START to 88788. Visit www.thehotline.org
Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741741. Visit www.crisistextline.org
RAINN (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network): Call 800-656-HOPE (4673) or visit www.rainn.org
Childhelp National Child Abuse Hotline: Call or text 800-4-A-CHILD (800-422-4453). Visit www.childhelp.org
SAMHSA’s National Helpline (Substance Use and Mental Health): Call 800-662-HELP (4357). Visit www.samhsa.gov
Hope for the Heart resources:
Abuse Recovery book: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/store/product/abuse-recovery
Abuse Recovery video course: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/store/product/abuse-recovery-video-course
Connect with Hope for the Heart on social!
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hopefortheheart
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hopefortheheart
Learn more about the ministry and resources of Hope for the Heart: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/
Learn more about Hope Talks and catch up on past episodes: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/hopetalks/
Want to talk with June Hunt on Hope in the Night about a difficult life issue? Schedule a time here: https://resource.hopefortheheart.org/talk-with-june-hope-in-the-night
God’s plan for you: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/gods-plan-for-you/
Give to the ministry of Hope for the Heart: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/donation/givehope/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=notes&utm_campaign=hopetalks
--------------
Bible verses mentioned in this episode
Psalm 145:8 – “The LORD is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love.”
Psalm 147:3 – “He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds.”
Matthew 8:14-15 – “When Jesus came into Peter’s house, he saw Peter’s mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever. He touched her hand, and the fever left her. She got up and began to wait for him.”
Mark 5:21-43 – The story of Jesus raising Jairus’ daughter from the dead.
Romans 8:38-39 – “For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
Series Hope Talks February 20, 2025 · 50 min · Hope Talks
Abuse can make you feel powerless, worthless, and hopeless. But healing is available in Christ. In this episode, Haley and Dustin discuss the impact abuse can have on a person and how God can heal us from past pain. With vulnerability and compassion, they share stories and walk through some practical, biblical steps we can take to move toward healing and recovery. Listen now – it’s such an encouraging story and conversation on addiction, recovery, and the hope we have in Christ. Subscribe to the podcast and tune in each week as Haley and Dustin share with you what the Bible says about real-life issues with compassion, warmth, and wit. So you have every reason for hope, for every challenge in life. Because hope means everything. Hope Talks is a podcast of the ministry of Hope for the Heart. Listen in to learn more (05:07) Understanding the Impact of Abuse (13:57) Recovery From Past Abuse and Mistreatment (20:25) Healing From Childhood Trauma (22:05) Understanding & Addressing Personal Responsibility (26:14) Processing Childhood Realizations and Forgiveness (30:29) Steps to Healing From Past Trauma (38:42) Integrating Recovery Into Daily Life -------------- Abuse Recovery hotlines & resources National Domestic Violence Hotline: Call 800-799-7233 or text START to 88788. Visit www.thehotline.org Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741741. Visit www.crisistextline.org RAINN (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network): Call 800-656-HOPE (4673) or visit www.rainn.org Childhelp National Child Abuse Hotline: Call or text 800-4-A-CHILD (800-422-4453). Visit www.childhelp.org SAMHSA’s National Helpline (Substance Use and Mental Health): Call 800-662-HELP (4357). Visit www.samhsa.gov Hope for the Heart resources: Abuse Recovery book: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/store/product/abuse-recovery Abuse Recovery video course: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/store/product/abuse-recovery-video-course Connect with Hope for the Heart on social! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hopefortheheart Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hopefortheheart Learn more about the ministry and resources of Hope for the Heart: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/ Learn more about Hope Talks and catch up on past episodes: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/hopetalks/ Want to talk with June Hunt on Hope in the Night about a difficult life issue? Schedule a time here: https://resource.hopefortheheart.org/talk-with-june-hope-in-the-night God’s plan for you: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/gods-plan-for-you/ Give to the ministry of Hope for the Heart: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/donation/givehope/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=notes&utm_campaign=hopetalks -------------- Bible verses mentioned in this episode Psalm 145:8 – “The LORD is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love.” Psalm 147:3 – “He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds.” Matthew 8:14-15 – “When Jesus came into Peter’s house, he saw Peter’s mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever. He touched her hand, and the fever left her. She got up and began to wait for him.” Mark 5:21-43 – The story of Jesus raising Jairus’ daughter from the dead. Romans 8:38-39 – “For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” ...more Show the full description Show less Abuse can make you feel powerless, worthless, and hopeless. But healing is available in Christ.
In this episode, Haley and Dustin discuss the impact abuse can have on a person and how God can heal us from past pain. With vulnerability and compassion, they share stories and walk through some practical, biblical steps we can take to move toward healing and recovery.
Listen now – it’s such an encouraging story and conversation on addiction, recovery, and the hope we have in Christ.
Subscribe to the podcast and tune in each week as Haley and Dustin share with you what the Bible says about real-life issues with compassion, warmth, and wit.
So you have every reason for hope, for every challenge in life. Because hope means everything.
Hope Talks is a podcast of the ministry of Hope for the Heart.
Listen in to learn more
(05:07) Understanding the Impact of Abuse
(13:57) Recovery From Past Abuse and Mistreatment
(20:25) Healing From Childhood Trauma
(22:05) Understanding & Addressing Personal Responsibility
(26:14) Processing Childhood Realizations and Forgiveness
(30:29) Steps to Healing From Past Trauma
(38:42) Integrating Recovery Into Daily Life
--------------
Abuse Recovery hotlines & resources
National Domestic Violence Hotline: Call 800-799-7233 or text START to 88788. Visit www.thehotline.org
Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741741. Visit www.crisistextline.org
RAINN (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network): Call 800-656-HOPE (4673) or visit www.rainn.org
Childhelp National Child Abuse Hotline: Call or text 800-4-A-CHILD (800-422-4453). Visit www.childhelp.org
SAMHSA’s National Helpline (Substance Use and Mental Health): Call 800-662-HELP (4357). Visit www.samhsa.gov
Hope for the Heart resources:
Abuse Recovery book: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/store/product/abuse-recovery
Abuse Recovery video course: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/store/product/abuse-recovery-video-course
Connect with Hope for the Heart on social!
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hopefortheheart
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hopefortheheart
Learn more about the ministry and resources of Hope for the Heart: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/
Learn more about Hope Talks and catch up on past episodes: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/hopetalks/
Want to talk with June Hunt on Hope in the Night about a difficult life issue? Schedule a time here: https://resource.hopefortheheart.org/talk-with-june-hope-in-the-night
God’s plan for you: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/gods-plan-for-you/
Give to the ministry of Hope for the Heart: https://www.hopefortheheart.org/donation/givehope/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=notes&utm_campaign=hopetalks
--------------
Bible verses mentioned in this episode
Psalm 145:8 – “The LORD is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love.”
Psalm 147:3 – “He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds.”
Matthew 8:14-15 – “When Jesus came into Peter’s house, he saw Peter’s mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever. He touched her hand, and the fever left her. She got up and began to wait for him.”
Mark 5:21-43 – The story of Jesus raising Jairus’ daughter from the dead.
Romans 8:38-39 – “For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
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Hope for the Heart is a worldwide biblical counseling, coaching, and caregiving ministry founded by June Hunt in 1986. We’re passionate about helping people
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0:00 Whatever hurts your heart, it doesn't matter if it's worse than somebody else's. God still his hope and his healing for us is personal.0:12 Welcome to Hope Talks. We're your hosts. I'm Haley Scully along with Dustin Anderson, and we wanna give you every reason for hope for every challenge in life because hope means everything.0:25 Haley, this is our fortieth episode of Hope Talk.0:29 A big 4 0.0:31 And I just wanna pause before we get into our topic. It's a bit of a heavy topic today. We're talking about abuse recovery.0:36 Mhmm.0:37 But I wanna pause for a little bit before we jump into that. And I've been thinking about this just because 40, it's a biblical number. 40 days in the wilderness.0:47 Oh, yeah. You know,0:48 that 40 or 40 years exodus, was thinking of Jesus. Yeah. And there's other references, but I was just thinking how far we've come, just why we started this podcast in the opening. You know, we say1:00 we wanna give you every reason for hope for every challenge in life.1:04 That's1:04 right. Because hope means everything. Mhmm. And here at Hope for the Heart, address over 100 topics, keys for living resources, and we've addressed a lot of topics on here. We've gone through1:16 fear, perfectionism, forgiveness, guilt and shame. We've had a lot of great guests. Yeah. We've had Lee Strobel. We've had June on a couple times. Greg Stier, Crystal Evans Hurst.
1:27 Now, I feel like we have to name them all. Obviously, I have to
1:29 name them all, but I say all that just because if you're new to listening to Hope Talks, I mean, dive in, catch up on old episodes. It's been such a joy doing this and going into
1:41 these topics. And if you have been listening a while, I would encourage you to subscribe to the podcast, leave a review. That would be such a blessing to us. But I just wanna pause and praise the Lord for
1:52 Praise the Lord.
1:53 40 episodes and hopefully many more to come.
1:56 Hopefully. You wanna high 5 right now? Sometimes we do that. Yeah. Okay. Good. Happy fortieth.
2:01 But, yeah, today, we're gonna dive into a little bit heavier of a topic on abuse recovery. Mhmm. But there's a reason for that. It's kind of connected with some of the more recent episodes we've done.
2:11 Yeah. I mean, that's 1 thing each week when we kind of meet and think ahead of what episodes will be and who we'll be interviewing and then what topics in our resources. So like you said, we started Hope Talks because we
2:23 wanted to help people think practically about hope. Hope is such a big topic. And sometimes it's like, how do you hope and what are you hoping in? And so our episodes sometimes are about the topics that
2:35 we cover in our tools that are keys for living at hope for the heart because we believe and as we're gonna get into as we go through abuse recovery a bit today, we have been helped practically. I mean,
2:47 you and I have both been very involved in ministry education and seminary and counseling and churches and me even professionally at times. And so we know there's
2:59 a lot of conversation about hope, but how our ministry, we feel so thankful and so grateful that we help people think about, okay. How do I actually hope in this situation that I'm
3:11 going through? So a lot of our episodes where it's you and I, we're talking about 1 of those topics, and we're hopefully drawing people to if that's something they're dealing with, that here is an unintrusive
3:23 resource Yeah. That they can pull into their home and read in their time and pray and seek the Lord in. And so sometimes it's harder topics. Sometimes it's a little bit
3:34 painful topics. And then sometimes it's just like every day. We talked about time management. I mean, God's word is good for everything in our life, the good and the difficult. And so I
3:46 just think that as we have over the past couple of weeks, you know, our listeners have heard our conversations with Gary and Barb Rosberg, with John Seidl. And I think that 1 thing that kept coming
3:58 to mind is how people are coping with some of their struggles. You know, with the Rosberg's, we talked a lot about guarding your heart. And then you and I did an episode on guarding your heart. With John, he
4:10 talked about some of his addiction struggles and realizing how things trauma that had happened in his life. He was coping in ways that weren't actually healing it. Mhmm. So with
4:22 those 2 things, we thought so many of us have been through some level of abuse. I'm gonna start with even the definition of abuse. And this is what's found in our key because a lot of people, we
4:34 say abuse and all of our minds go in different directions.
4:38 Yeah. Especially, think it's like I think for a lot of people, it goes to, like, a really serious situation of, like Yeah. Physical abuse or something.
4:46 Either what we've experienced in our own lives or what we've seen on TV or what we've read or, you know, we have these definitions of abuse that come to our mind visually based on something. And so
4:58 sometimes that's right or sometimes that's wrong or sometimes that's limited or sometimes it's too broad, I guess. But abuse is literally the definition. Abuse is the mistreatment of another person
5:10 that results in physical, emotional, or spiritual harm. Abuse often creates deep wounds that affect a person's sense of identity, worth, safety, and trust.
5:22 I think everybody listening. When I was in seminary, we went through 1 class, you know, where the diagnosis class, where we were learning about all the different disorders and things in the DSM.
5:34 And my professor, doctor Dana Wicker, so cool. I love doctor Wicker. But she was like, listen. You guys are gonna hear this, and every 1 of you are gonna diagnose yourselves. Diagnosed. Yeah. I remember having a similar
5:45 Yeah. Class. Yeah. Because we hear those things, we're like, wait a second. I have a low self worth or I have difficulty. You know? So I think everybody if we look at abuse as the mistreatment of another
5:56 person, physical, emotional, or spiritual, probably everybody at some point can say they are a victim of abuse. Now Yeah. There's always a scale of that. And
6:08 some of us, it's maybe we had somebody that was mean to us, bullying. You know, we'll get into some more of those definitions. But I think as people are listening to our conversation today,
6:21 don't compare levels of abuse. Just listen for the Lord in your life. There probably are moments that you can work through and sort through. But the thing is we wanna give people some practical ways
6:33 that they can recover from that abuse. Whatever level that may be. Yeah. However deep that may go for them, there is hope.
6:43 Yeah. There's 2 things that I wanna respond to with that. So, yeah, 1 of the just personally having gone through a number of the Keys for Living resources Mhmm. What I love
6:55 about them and what's difficult about them is that there's there's so many topics and some of them you think, oh, I I have never really dealt with that. I haven't been abused. I haven't gone through manipulation, which
7:06 is another 1 of our topics. I haven't gone through this and that. But then you kind of dive into a little bit and you read the definitions and look at the characteristics of it. Oh, okay. Okay.
7:17 Maybe. Yeah. And so 1 of them, I also want to acknowledge upfront, we have a lot of Key's books on different types of abuse. Yeah. So we have abuse recovery, we have verbal and
7:29 emotional abuse, childhood sexual abuse, spiritual abuse, sexual assault and rape recovery, bullying, domestic abuse. So we kinda cover the range of things. So today is just kind of a bit
7:41 more general on abuse recovery. Mhmm. But, yeah, 1 of them I remember going through was on verbal and emotional abuse, and it just we kinda have this huge list in there of just like different types of abuse to
7:53 kind of give the range and just to show people like, it's not just like really aggressive, like physical abuse or It can also be neglect. It can also be things
8:05 like being ignored
8:07 Yeah.
8:07 Or like the verbal abuse being constantly yelled at as a kid or something like that. And so when you kinda go through that, you can go, oh, yeah. I have gone through that. Yeah. And maybe that's
8:19 affected me in some way.
8:20 Right.
8:21 And I never really have dealt with that. So I think that's a good way of thinking about it. But, yeah, it also reminds me of just the times I've been in, like, the small group counseling groups I've been in at church
8:32 where someone shares their story and it's like, it is that really hard, difficult abuse that they've gone through. And then there's this sense of, like, another person's gone through some other
8:44 things that's been more like, maybe neglect. It seems like a a softer thing they've gone through and it's like, they don't wanna share it, but it's like, no. Like, that has been your experience. And if it's
8:56 affected you, let's talk about it.
8:59 That's so good because we don't need to look at 1 another and measure the degrees. I mean, kinda like we talked about before about guilt and things. Well, at least it's not that bad, so I
9:11 need to be grateful. We talked about that in the gratitude episode as well. Like, well, at least it's not that. So I need to not say anything because whatever. Well, you know, when we talk about guarding our heart, when
9:20 we talk about abuse recovery, everything flows out of the heart. Whatever has hurt our heart or impacted our responses to relationships, to situations, to having hope. Like,
9:32 that's between us and the Lord, honestly. It's not to say, well, your level of abuse was worse than mine, so I just need to suck it up. Or I don't have any room to talk because I don't understand necessarily what you've
9:42 gone through. That can happen in all sorts of situations. But the point is for people that are listening, whatever hurts your heart, it doesn't matter if it's worse than somebody else's. God still
9:54 his hope and his healing for us is personal. I don't know how dumb this is. If you've got a child with a broken arm and a child that has really skinned their knee skin
10:06 a word? Skinned. Skinned skinned.
10:09 Skinned. Skinned. The bike.
10:11 Yeah. Fell off the old bike. And you're like, hey. I'm gonna go deal with the broken arm, and you just bleeding out over the no. Like, the broken arm may be a more physical injury that has to be
10:23 addressed, but you're also gonna tend to the knee. Like, the level of love doesn't change. You're gonna the level of care may change.
10:30 Yeah. That's a that's a good 1. So my youngest daughter, Abby, she's 5. She I don't even know if you can call this an injury. Like, 1 of her 1 of her toenails just kinda
10:42 started to come off a little bit.
10:43 That's an injury.
10:44 Not like the whole nail. It was just normal. But she's like, I need a band aid for this. As her dad, I'm like, I'm gonna take this seriously. Like, she in her mind, like, this is like
10:53 She needed you to care for her. Yeah. I
10:55 need care. Like, I need attention. This is painful for me.
10:58 Right.
10:59 And I was like, so it's like, I'll treat that. But then there's been like other like injuries in the house with so it's like, yeah, I think just being reminded like, God is a father. He cares for us. Yeah. Whether it's
11:11 a deep 30 year old wound or a light thing.
11:15 Right.
11:15 Like, I think about Jesus. He 1 of our guests mentioned this story recently of healing Tyrus's daughter
11:23 My mom.
11:23 Or raising her. Yeah. Yeah. Everything from raising someone from the dead, but then I also think of that small story where Peter's mother has a fever and she's lying in bed and he takes the time to heal
11:35 her of her fever. Yeah. So it's like wherever you're at, if it's been a little bit of abuse or mistreatment or it's been a lot, like Yeah. God cares about it all
11:45 and wants us
11:45 to heal from it.
11:46 If the definition is some type of mistreatment, if that kind of equals abuse, then probably like we said, almost everybody has some level of
11:58 recovery that they can experience, a bit of breakthrough that maybe we need. A lot of times, we do go back to the root of things. When do you first remember feeling this way? When do you first? Because a lot
12:10 of our coping mechanisms or a lot of our beliefs about ourselves are developed in early childhood. That's just fact. We learn how to respond to things. We learn how to ride the bike. We learn how to read and write, and
12:21 we learn how to manage relationships. If this person is scary, I try to stay away over here. If this person gets mad at me if I'm too loud, I shut down and I don't talk. We don't necessarily understand or we couldn't
12:33 necessarily say I'm responding in this way because of that.
12:37 Yeah. You're just kinda
12:38 You just kinda you're growing with it. You're learning that. So, you know, 1 of the things we talk about at times when I've had opportunity to teach on abuse recovery, and it used to be called victimization, But
12:50 nobody really wanted to grab the book on victimization because people don't necessarily like to be identified as a victim. But when we talk about abuse recovery, everybody wants to overcome overcoming those patterns. So
13:01 we would tell the story I'm gonna tell the baby elephant story.
13:03 Oh, okay.
13:03 Because I think it's a great visual. Yeah. So elephants in the circus, when they're born, when they're babies, they put the big cuff on their ankle, and they stake it to the ground. Like, let's pretend like
13:15 they like that. I don't know. It makes me sad a little but I know
13:18 it's It's a bit of a sad thing.
13:19 Yeah. It was a sad picture. But at first, the baby elephant, like, tries to break free of that. Like, struggles with it, works against it. Yeah. Eventually, the baby elephant says, when this cuff
13:31 is on my ankle, I can't get free. I can't move. Well, once they see that the will of the baby elephant is kind of broken, they never have to stake it in the ground again. Because as long as that cuff
13:43 is on, they have learned this is where I am. This is who I am, and they don't even try to run away, which is why you can have an elephant in the circus around people. And you always see they have a cuff with
13:55 a chain not staked to anything. Mhmm. So when we learn those responses, we grow up and we have responses to different levels of, again, we'll say abuse slash
14:06 mistreatment. We've learned compensation, how to compensate for those things, and it's not always the best, most functional way. When Gary and Barb first talked about
14:18 guard your heart and then we talked about guarding your heart, everything out of our hearts, even as little kids, we learn that and then we respond, and that's the overflow. And so that's 1 reason why we wanna
14:30 talk to people about whatever the level is, whatever the story is, you probably need a bit of help in learning how to recover from some of the mistreatment or abuse that you've experienced.
14:42 Like, when John was sharing with us his story, he realized, like, he began to be overly dependent on alcohol, and he realized he really was an alcoholic. I just I loved the tenderness of the
14:54 part of his wife saying, you have stuff in your past that you're using that to cope with. You need to get to the root of it. So I would ask, like, why do people
15:05 avoid recovering from abuse? Why do people avoid maybe trying to get to the root of something?
15:12 Yeah. This is actually something I've been thinking about quite a bit the last few weeks, just part of because of the podcast and the guests we've had, because the idea of healing sounds awesome. Especially, we read so
15:24 many passages in scripture, like, we think of the Psalms, he heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds. And healing is available for us in Christ and through the work of recovery and all of that. But there's
15:36 something about it where it's like, even though I want that, that means I have to, like, go back to those places. Mhmm. And I have to go back to those memories, and it's easier to just a
15:47 bunch of things, like and these are kind of coping mechanisms that people have when they've dealt with abuse. Mhmm. Is it's easier to just deny it and just say that that was in the past, and I'm just gonna move on. And
15:59 there's a way you can do that where you're you're kind of denying the effect that it had on you. Yeah. Or you minimize it and think, oh, it really wasn't that big of a deal, or you do that comparison thing
16:09 Right.
16:09 We talked about. And you can minimize the actual impact it had on you or you just kinda don't realize how much those things from the past still affect you today.
16:21 It's just, well, this is just the way I am. And you might believe, like, the problem's too big and you can't change Yeah. Or something like that.
16:28 Or it feels scary.
16:30 Yeah.
16:30 Nobody wants to have surgery.
16:33 Yeah.
16:33 They want to be on the other side of it. Yeah. Whatever's hurting them, they want it to be fixed, but the idea of going in for surgery is scary. For me, like, international travel and stuff,
16:45 and I was scared to fly. Like, I wanted to get where I was going. I wanted to be there. I just didn't wanna go through the process of getting there. I just didn't wanna be in a plane over the
16:57 ocean. You know? Like, I just didn't I just you know? So I think sometimes when we think about, listen. If I start to ask God, where have I been hurt? What do I need to kind
17:09 of recover from? What mistreatment have I experienced? Sometimes it's easier just to push that down because we're afraid the process of that is gonna take us out, or we're afraid I remember
17:20 we were working with somebody, and we were trying to it was an organization, and we were trying to help them think they had a lot of, like, let's just say people on the field internationally, you know, working
17:32 in different areas. And a lot of those people were really struggling. And we were like, if you could get them some tools to consider some areas that they need help in, If
17:44 they're angry and they have, like, the anger tool and they can walk through that with the Lord, what does the Lord say about that? Help give them some insight in how they're feeling, then you may be able to
17:56 help strengthen them right where they are so they don't have to come off the field. And he was like, no. We don't have time for them to lay on a couch for 6 months was actually what the president of that organization
18:08 said. In his mind, recovery or counseling, he was like, they don't have time to lay on a couch for 6 months. And I'm like, god. That's not
18:19 Yeah. It's
18:20 That's not the point. That doesn't always happen. Now like we said, there's a spectrum of it. And for some people, if they look at like, my professor doctor Wicker, she was like, you learn it is
18:32 how much is it impacting your life. And if it is impacting your life, like what John shared with us, the alcohol was impacting his life, He needed to get a little bit more aggressive in
18:44 his recovery. Yeah. And he did the work. For a lot of us, it's not impacting us to the same level Yeah. But it is impacting our relationships. Like we said, we deny, we downplay,
18:56 or ignore the reality of it. We are trying to control everything so that nothing is out of place. We're substance abuse, addictions, like in his story and in other story,
19:08 overachieving, like, which really try to prove ourselves, like, we're trying to over or withdraw. Yeah. There's a lot of things that I think if all of us realize, you know, there's a bit of hurt that I would like to
19:19 work through, sometimes it does take that. Don't be afraid of it because it's not gonna take forever for us to but a lot of us, a whole lot of us with a bit of insight, we could
19:31 start to have some new tools to address situations differently. And really abuse recovery is you sprang an ankle. I used to be a chronic ankle springer. Like, I'm almost
19:43 embarrassed at how many times my ankle sprained over the years. We were playing flag football on school break 1 time, and my friend Steve, like, picked me up and put me over
19:55 his foot. And then and I just remember my other friend Jeremy saying she sprained her ankle again.
20:01 Yeah. Again.
20:02 It was a chronic thing. But a good bandage for a couple of days, and that was it. So I think don't be afraid of the recovery that you need.
20:11 Yeah. And it reminds me too of something John said. He said something to the effect of, like, his story was on alcohol addiction, but he said, you don't have to, like, hit rock bottom to, like, change your relationship
20:23 with alcohol. Yeah. It's that same principle. Like, you don't have to wait for just, the worst thing to happen or whatever to, like, start to course correct and change your ways. And so for
20:35 me, yeah, this has been a bit of a difficult topic to work through and think through, and I shared a little bit with you guys just in preparation for this. But Yeah. This is 1 of those things where I'm still working
20:46 through and processing my thoughts on it. So I had shared with you guys just 1 of the other keys we have is on alcohol and drug abuse. Mhmm. And when I was working on updating that key, I was asked to write a story of
20:58 kind of from this perspective of a child of an alcoholic. Mhmm. Because I grew up with an alcoholic parent. And so writing that story was an interesting process and difficult and healing and
21:09 all of the things. Mhmm. And so 1 of the things I did was I wrote down just took out a legal pad and wrote down everything that I remember of what that was like. And I wrote down the
21:21 feelings associated with those things of, what it was like to cook dinner for myself. Mhmm. What it was like to go to the grocery store, you know, with my brother as a kid. What it was like to have
21:33 those fights that we had. So I wrote all that out. It was like 2 pages. And then I just kinda looked at it as like a third party. Like, if this happened to someone else, what would I
21:44 expect from that person? How would I characterize that person? And I wrote down words like neglect, abuse, and things like that. Mhmm. And like that was like a really like eye
21:55 opening exercise because it was like, okay, that explains some of my behaviors. And that it was then this was a few years ago, we worked on this. It was then I made the connection
22:07 of like that sense of like super responsibility that I feel all the time about I have to take care of all of the things at home, at work, and and all this stuff. And it was a difficult
22:19 thing to do, but it was a really I think it's been a healing thing because now I know it helped me understand where that sense of responsibility came from. I understood the background, but at the same time, it was
22:31 like, I still have those thoughts, those feelings, and I still need to course correct. It's not like I just need to give up all of my responsibilities. Like, it's a good thing to be responsible for the things in your
22:42 life. But at the same time, I can start to feel like I'm responsible for things that are, like, just so outside my control, like other people's responses to things. Yeah. And
22:54 so it started to narrow my definition of, like, what is healthy responsibility. Yeah. And so the Lord has been helping me grow in that area. But it is 1 of those things where it's like you
23:05 you have to make that choice of like, am I gonna go down this road and remember those like, go to those memories and just kind of address them and go make and kinda make the connection. Like, it's
23:17 good to have insight, but that alone doesn't mean, like, everything's just gonna automatically get better now. Yeah. There's still God's word I need to go to and address some of the
23:29 faulty thinking I have around things. And so, yeah, this has been a topic for me that's been like 1 of those ones where, again, like I said, it's like, well, I've never dealt with abuse. I've never
23:41 dealt with anything like that. But then what I love about our topics is it does give you the insight. It does help you make the personal connections that you've dealt with in your life, but then it also moves you to
23:52 steps in in God's words.
23:55 You already been aware of your hypersense of responsibility? Like, was that something that you realized was, like, maybe over, like, too much of that, or you felt
24:07 too much pressure in that? Were you aware before you realized or defined that as abuse?
24:12 A little bit. Like, I always had this sense of yeah. The phrases come into mind because I worked on a paper related to this in seminary where I talked about I used the phrase
24:24 psychological ownership.
24:26 Okay.
24:27 Loaded phrase.
24:27 I like it.
24:28 But I feel like I take psychological ownership of a lot of things. An assignment to me in school is not just like some assignment I have to do. Like, I own this. I have to like I'm responsible for this.
24:39 Mhmm.
24:40 And so I've always gotten really good grades in school because it wasn't just and I think part of that, think the Lord's gifted me in study and research and things like that.
24:51 Right.
24:51 But at the same time, there was a sense of, like, if something's put in front of me, I take ownership of it. Mhmm. And so I've always been aware of that sense, and I've always been a little bit aware of, like, there's
25:02 some things where it's like, this actually isn't yours to take ownership of. Yeah. But I'm gonna do it anyway because it's in front of me.
25:09 So it's kind of you have our natural tendencies. Your God given giftings of being able to think through things and process and have a plan and organize
25:21 and write and communicate and be responsible. Those are some of your natural innate tendencies, but some of your experiences kind of hyper overdrive those.
25:31 Yeah. And it can lead to, like, perfectionism. So that's another 1 of our topics where I'm like, I don't deal with that. But then you get into it, it's like, oh, yeah. Of course, I do. And then so I was able to start
25:41 making those connections of, like, taking all of that ownership and responsibility. It's like, it's not just that I have to get it done. It's I have to get it done perfectly. Mhmm. I can kind of see
25:53 those connections of how that led to that. So I've had to learn not only what I'm truly responsible for, but even in the things I'm responsible for, like, it's okay to do
26:05 them to do them well, but not perfectly. Yeah. And it's okay to fail. It's okay to if I do something and make a mistake, like, it's fine.
26:14 So what would you say, if I can ask? Yeah. What would you say has been the hardest part of kind of processing that realization? And what's been the best part of processing that understanding that
26:26 that is kind of what you experienced, that is how it impacted you, and recognizing maybe you wanna make some changes?
26:34 Yeah. That's a good question. I think part of it for me is because a lot of it is tied with my mom. It's hard to come to the realization that your parents aren't perfect. Mhmm.
26:45 And especially since my mom passed away, there's a sense of it just makes it more complicated of how to deal with that. Mhmm. But there was just forgiveness and things to work through on that end, but also
26:58 just kind of realizing, like, your parents weren't perfect. Like, they had their own shortcomings and there's grace for them too. Yeah. But just kind of seeing seeing her see my
27:10 mom in a new light. And so I don't know. I just feel like kids have a natural just innate desire to see their kids or to see their parents as their heroes. Yeah. And
27:21 so that was just been kinda difficult to think through that, to see my mom through God's eyes as we've talked about on that episode. But 1 of the healing things about it
27:33 on the positive side has just been, I think, just self awareness. Mhmm. Seems like a small thing, but
27:40 You read in your own room?
27:41 Yeah. But I think that's like a huge victory and step in, you know, recovery is just, okay, I'm aware now of how how I respond to things and Yeah. And all of that.
27:53 So I understand myself more and I can bring those things to God a little bit more quickly and recognize like, okay, I know I'm I'm starting to get perfectionistic again. I'm starting to take on too much.
28:05 I need to carve out margin for myself. I need to just rest and calm down. And so I think it's been self awareness. I think with abuse recovery, it can be this thing where it's like,
28:17 you can go so long where, again, you're just surviving. Just You're
28:21 you're Autopilot.
28:22 You're coping.
28:23 Yeah. It's like doing what you've always known to do.
28:25 But when you can stop and go, okay. I understand why I'm doing this now. I can actually I have the power to actually make a choice and course correct.
28:32 So what would you say are some of the best benefits of self awareness, like emotionally or relationally?
28:39 Yeah. Relationally is a big 1 because with I've mentioned this before, but with me and Kristen, we have this thing where we can just kind of, like, our check-in is just kind of like, hey, I'm at like a 7 right now on myShow more
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