Matthew West: Matt, thank you so much for joining me. Two Matts on a podcast, man. It doesn't get any better than this. Does anybody ever call you Matthew, or do you like to go by Matt?
Matt Potter: You know, Matt or Matthew doesn't matter to me. I'll respond to both.
Matthew: Really? Okay. Like, but when you were a kid, like, were you in trouble if mom called you Matthew?
Matt: Matthew, I was in trouble. Then, you know, mom and dad always add the middle name and last name when you're in trouble. Right?
Matthew: Is that something like I feel like that's like a thing that all parents just instinctively do at some point. I don't know what that is, but...
Matt: I don't know what it is either. Also, counting to 3. Right? You know?
Matthew: Yes. Yes. Okay. So when you were growing up, were you ever... did anybody ever go with Maddie? Because I was Maddie in high school sports and stuff like that. The coaches would call me Maddie. What's your take on that?
Matt: No. Maybe different because I was in SoCal, but everybody went by last names out here. So, you know, when you were playing sports, it was always Potter, Potterman, you know, all sorts of because my last name is Potter. But yeah.
Matthew: Nice. Nice. Well, Matt Potter is here on the podcast today. Welcome to the show. I'd like to say welcome to the story house because even though we're virtual today, this studio where I'm coming to you from is called the story house. And it's a very special place where I write all my songs. It's where I record the podcast and where we dive into the power of story and most importantly, the story that God's writing through each and every one of our lives.
And I've gotten to know your story a little bit. You and I got to meet in person. I wanna say at Red Rocks was the first time I shook your hand. We were doing a concert at Red Rocks. I got to meet you backstage. And then we got to have a conversation, and I got to hear more of your story and how PRAY.COM was born. And I was inspired by it.
And so as I've been releasing this music that is themed on the topic encouraging people, don't stop praying, I've also wanted just to help point people to incredible resources that are out there. I'm sure everybody already knows about PRAY.COM. But for those few who've been living under a rock, the rest of them are gonna find out today not only about what PRAY.COM offers in their daily walk with the Lord, but to me, the heart behind it and the why of how Matt Potter wound up launching PRAY.COM. So can we talk about you're a kid growing up in Southern California and your initial dreams and idea of what success equaled in life. Can we start there with what your first aim in life was?
Matt: Absolutely. So I'll actually take it back even a little bit further, to a 15-year-old girl who's walking down the street in Washington state crying and praying because she's on her way to an abortion clinic because she's 15 and she's pregnant. And on her way to that clinic, she popped into a church because she was feeling guilty and ashamed. Right? And she wanted to talk to the pastor about the biggest decision she was gonna make in her life up to that point.
And when she talked to the pastor, the pastor ended up calling a buddy of his who planted a 20-person church in Los Angeles. And the pastor in Los Angeles said, you know, it's providence you just called me about this girl. I've been counseling this Christian couple. They're married, and they've been trying to have children for 10 years and couldn't. I want you to go back in there and ask that girl if she'd be willing to give her baby up for adoption.
So, Matt, I was the baby the girl brought into the church. And I got adopted because of these two pastors that were friends. And my adopted dad, because he got me from the church, was so inspired by the pastor that, you know, he got his son from the church that he ended up becoming the head elder of this little 20-person church and helping the pastor grow it to a—I kinda grew up in church. And with my pastor being like a second dad to me, and I was an introverted kid growing up. I like to build computers in my garage. I was very introverted.
My dad was really good at sports. My brother, who isn't adopted, was really good at sports. And I was the kid, like, building robots in the garage by myself.
Matthew: What is it about California and computers in garages? Like, what is it about...
Matt: I don't know. It's just the perfect place. You know?
Matthew: Was you like, that's where you gravitate. You were just passionate about tech early?
Matt: Yeah. I was just passionate about learning how things worked and taking things apart and putting them back together very, very early on in my childhood. So I did all sorts of things. I probably made my parents super frustrated because the phone would be apart and in pieces everywhere. I wanted to learn how it worked and all sorts—you know, the fax machine, all this stuff.
So, but finally, I kinda got into software. And in high school, I got the unique opportunity. My friend was a voice actor. His dad was a voice actor and invited me out to Silicon Valley. And so I went up there to a new company called Pixar. Oh, yeah. I got this unique opportunity to meet Steve Jobs. And I didn't really know who Steve was when I was up there, and I got to see him and meet him at Pixar. Wow. See some of the cool things that they were doing with computers, like making animated movies. Right?
And, yeah. When I went home, I was just—I felt super inspired, and I started looking into Steve Jobs' story, and I learned that he was adopted. And I was finally, I was like, I'm not weird. There's computer guys that are adopted. And so I started following Steve's life, and I went to Boise State University. And my senior year of college, Steve Jobs got up on stage and launched the App Store on the iPhone.
And I called my mom and dad. I'll never forget it. And they were super upset, Matt. But I called them and I said, you know what? I'm gonna drop out of school, and I am going to get into apps. It's gonna be a big thing. And my mom and dad weren't too excited about that, but dropped out of college, started a company, roped my college roommate into that company, and we built a white label version. So like a skinned version of Zillow, Trulia, or Redfin back in the day.
And we realized that real estate companies weren't gonna build their own apps, and there should be a company that builds apps for real estate companies. And so I built that company over 10 years. I racked up a bunch of credit card debt, did our round of financing from Visa and Mastercard. And, you know, 10 years into that company, it ended up doing really well. And I built over 8,000 apps in the App Store for all the major real estate companies in the United States.
Matthew: Say that one more time. 8,000 apps...
Matt: 8,000. Yeah. For all the major real estate companies.
Matthew: Unbelievable.
Matt: Yeah. It was super fun. You know, we're building apps for Coldwell Banker, Century 21, Sotheby's. All at the ripe old age of what, Matt?
Matt: Let's see. I started at 19, 20 years old. So, yeah, it's kinda been my entire life, apps right now. Just dove in, you know, and God kinda—God was pushing me in that direction since I was a little kid.
So Homestack was doing really well. Everything was, you know, working great. Customers were super happy. But you know what? I was coming to work every day, Matthew, just feeling empty inside. I hit my goals. I reached this weird point in my life where I didn't have to work anymore if I didn't want to, and I didn't know what to do with myself.
And, you know, reached out to some friends and they said, Matt, shut up. Go buy a fancy Italian sports car. Like, don't talk to me.
Matthew: Yeah. You got a good life. What are you complaining about?
Matt: Yeah. Yeah. Why are you complaining? But I just felt like I lost my purpose. I felt like I wasn't on track with God's plan for my life. And so called my pastor, asked him how I could help and get back. And he said, Matt, we're opening a new campus in Santa Monica for the veterans. Why don't you help me open the campus? Like, be the campus pastor.
And I was like, I'm an introverted tech entrepreneur, didn't go to seminary. That sounds terrifying. That's so amazing. And I just—I couldn't believe that he asked me to do that because it's, like, complete opposite of my personality type. And so, you know, I just said, I don't know. That scares me. And he said, well, pray about it. Just pray about it. I said, okay.
So I prayed about it. The very next day, I was at a coffee shop in my hometown here, and my good buddy walks through the door. And we played on rival high school football teams. He started his first company the same time I started mine, and his name is Steve Gatena. And Steve walked through the door, and he didn't look great. He just looked like he had been through a tough time.
And I asked Steve to sit down and grab a cup of coffee with me. And what I didn't know, Matthew, is Steve became the 29-year-old CEO of the world's largest aerial production company. And so they had 40 aircraft, helicopters, planes and jets. They would film all the major motion pictures. So like Jurassic World, Transformers. I don't know if you have an Apple TV, but all the Apple TV backgrounds, they did all those.
And Steve experienced a tragedy in his life when he was working, doing that company. His cofounder died making a movie in Colombia called American Made with Tom Cruise. And in the filming of the movie, Steve's business partner died in a plane crash. And, you know, they were just taking the plane back to the hangar in a routine trip after flying with Tom Cruise all day, and it was super tough. Steve didn't know what to do.
And so he was listening to, like, Tony Robbins and Deepak Chopra. Like, Steve grew up to a single Jewish mom on welfare. He didn't grow up going to church or listening to Christian music, you know. And so a former Navy SEAL that worked at the company with Steve said, "Hey, boss. I've dealt with leadership when people have died. What are you doing for yourself?" And Steve didn't have a good answer. And so the Navy SEAL shared him an audio sermon from a pastor in Texas, and it changed Steve's life and he became a Christian.
And he actually wanted to build the ESPN for Christians. He's like, why don't we have the digital destination for Christians? That must be why I didn't know about this. Like, because there's no digital destination. Like, if I wanna go sports, I go to ESPN. If I want kids content, I go to Disney.
Matthew: Right. Right. Right.
Matt: Why is there no digital destination for Christians? So he called a buddy of his in India who had built some e-commerce apps, flew him out to California, and was meeting him at this coffee shop. And when I ran into Steve, the guy just told him that he couldn't build what he wanted him to build. And God's providence. Right? Like, I just talked to my pastor the night before.
Matthew: Yeah. Everything's going great. I'm looking for something new, something bigger to give back. Steve tells me, PRAY.COM, the digital destination for Christians. And so I stepped down as CEO of my company the next day. Steve and I linked up and our—we have two other incredible cofounders. And we went up to Silicon Valley. And because of Steve and I's backgrounds, we raised, like, 37 million dollars to start PRAY.COM.
Matthew: Amazing.
Matt: And it's just been incredible. It's—that was eight years ago. Fast forward to today, we've got 2.5 billion listening minutes, which for you math nerds out there is, like, 1,700 years of content consumption.
Matthew: Unbelievable. Mind boggling to think about.
Matt: People have shared the gospel and the content in the app a hundred and 52 million times.
Matthew: Wow.
Matt: And, yeah. So it's just been a remarkable journey, and God's had his hand on the company and on us from the very beginning.
Matthew: And you never had to be the introvert turned pastor assistant pastor at that—at that church. Right?
Matt: That's right. That's right.
Matthew: That is incredible. Say that one more—was 1,700 what was it? 1,700 years?
Matt: 1,700 years of content consumption. Yeah.
Matthew: Unbelievable. That's wild. People say there is no God, but it's like, who else can orchestrate the journey that you just shared about your life story and then connecting with Steve in that way and even and using using grief and using an adoption story and using unique giftings and a kid in a garage who wants to take things—I mean, it's just the intricacies of that orchestrated story and those stories colliding for that moment and you guys meeting and starting PRAY.COM. It's like, just that right there. It's like, who could say there is no God? That's amazing.
Matt: I agree. I agree. It's been a...
Matthew: Talk about journey. Talk about the feeling of fulfillment—because your eyes light up when you talk about the amount of hours of consumed information and content from PRAY.COM and how much it's been shared. And I mean and you're full of life when you're telling me those statistics. And when you were telling me about the success of the other companies, I mean, there's a marked difference. Like, you're just you know, you're like, hey. This was really successful. You coulda had the fancy sports car. You didn't have to work again.
But just talk about the difference of feeling when PRAY.COM launched and now you're eight years later with all that it's done, what does fulfillment feel like now, getting to taste of being a part of something that, my friend Tom says something that has eternality. Of course, that's just a fancy word for eternal value, eternal wealth, eternal purpose. Talk about the difference in that feeling that you get inside when you go to work every day now.
Matt: So the only way I can describe it is with a with a story. And, you know, very beginning, it's me and my three cofounder, Steve, Ryan, and Mike. We're literally in a broom closet in Santa Monica. It's, like, 6 by 9 feet, and there's four of us in this room. And it has no air conditioning, and it's literally—it was a closet. We moved everything out that was in the closet out.
And we just had finished the first version of the app, and a woman named Mary was downloading the app. And for some reason, the login email was going to spam. She couldn't log in to the app. And Mary was a woman who was going through stage 4 cancer for the second time. She had outlived all of her family members. Her husband and kids had all passed away, and she was all by herself.
And, you know, in the early days when it's four people, you think, like, you're calling a big call center, you know, and for customer support. In the early days, we had a phone number and it would ring all of our phones and somebody had to pick up. So I picked up and talked to Mary, and she said, Matt, I'm in the chemo chair. I'm listening to PRAY.COM. And I can't log in anymore. And I wanna listen to Bible stories. I don't know how long I have.
And I just said, I'm so sorry. I'm gonna help you. I spent, like, an hour on the phone with her. We gave her the entire app for free. She had no idea she was talking to one of the founders.
Matthew: No. She had no idea. She thought I was some customer...
Matthew: Amazing.
Matt: ...support person, which, you know, which is totally fine.
Matthew: Amazing.
Matt: You know, helped her out, got her into the app. And her story just—it weighs heavy on my heart because of all the things that she was going through. And she wanted to spend those moments in the chemo chair listening to the app and praying to her Lord and savior. Right?
And so, fast forward a couple years, and I'm traveling around the country speaking at megachurches, having people download the app to use the app. And I'm in Sacramento, and I'm speaking at a church in Sacramento. And I tell everybody about the app, and I'm about to leave, and a woman comes and pulls me aside, and it was her.
Matthew: Wow.
Matt: And she just came up and gave me a big hug. She didn't even say anything. She just gave me a big hug, and I kinda knew. But then she told me that she called in, and she was still alive. I broke down, like—and I don't cry a lot. And it was, like, I broke down when I was talking to her.
And, you know, that's the fulfillment is people like Mary who have nowhere to turn. We had a police officer write in from Ohio who said that he was gonna go and commit suicide. And a friend of his, one of those 152 million shares was a friend of this police officer, shared him the app on his way home...
Matthew: Wow.
Matt: ...where he was planning to kill himself.
Matthew: Wow.
Matt: And he said—he said, thank you for saving my life. And we just replied to him and said, we didn't save your life. God did. We just made the connection for you. That's it.
And so that's what fulfillment looks like for me and for, you know, everybody that shares the gospel or shares a piece of content at a PRAY.COM to a family member or friend. Like...
Matthew: And what a great point you're making about the opportunity that people have that if they've been impacted by PRAY.COM. You know, sometimes, I mean, we can all be guilty of stopping short of we the hope we found in Christ, and we forget about the importance of sharing that hope with others.
And so, you know, you found hope in Christ. And if you would've just stopped short of that and not thought about launching PRAY.COM, imagine how many people wouldn't have been reached with the message of the gospel. And now you're getting to repeat stories of impact that have been felt. So just a reminder—just a quick little reminder for everybody listening right now. Don't hold the hope that you have in Christ to yourself. Don't keep that to yourself. And sharing something as simple as sharing the PRAY.COM app with somebody who you know is struggling literally might be the lifeline that they need.
Matt, have you noticed and sensed—I mean, clearly, you're like, because of what you've done and stepping out in faith and leaving the comfortable behind and daring to do something bold. I love the idea of, like, the ESPN for Christians. Like, I love that that big vision. Like, that fires me up.
But so you found yourself on the front lines or someone with your finger on the poles, especially from a technological standpoint of what is stirring in our culture, in our nation, in our society. Are you finding that there is a spiritual longing, a spiritual hunger, a spiritual thirst where people are either coming to God for the first time or coming back to God or just even searching for faith like never before. I'm just curious what your take on our current state is.
Matt: Absolutely. And I think that's why I love the new album that you're coming out with, because people can share music. They can share things that help people with their mental and spiritual health. And we—we have a mental health crisis in America. It's not a secret. Like, people are dealing with a lot right now. And they're coming back to their faith more and more than ever before.
If you listen to big media, they would say that church attendance is going down. Right. And that we're becoming less of a Christian nation. But, really, I liken church to movie theaters. Movie theaters have less attendance. Are people watching less movies? No.
So we started digging into Christian media consumption. And believe it or not, in the last 24 months, it's up 52 percent.
Matthew: Wow.
Matt: So people are coming back more than ever before. They're just going here, and they're going to their phone. And they're opening their phone how many times a day, and that's where they're consuming the content. And so we gotta go where people are at, because, you know, big tech is is driving this—these values of comparison, of strife, of separating people. Right?
But, you know, like, what you're doing with your music and with your album and, like, what we're doing with apps, we can bring people together. We can point to heaven and say, look, Jesus is your Lord and savior, and we can remind people to really dive into the Bible and dive into all of their favorite Bible stories and Christian music. That's incredible.
Matthew: And I'm curious. You have so many great speakers, authors, influencers who are on PRAY.COM. There's no shortage of powerful, literally daily content that people can be just—I mean, it—what we put into our minds and our hearts is gonna—it's gonna affect good or bad, our mental, our spiritual, our physical, our emotional health.
And so you're giving no shortage of outlets. Give me something that when you think about, like, somebody going to PRAY.COM for the first time or downloading the app, where do you—where do you go—where do you hope they go first? Or what's something you'd say, oh, they gotta check this out because this is brand new or whatever?
Matt: So the very first thing that I would say—so two things. First thing is our daily prayer. It's one of the things that's shared the most in the app. So it's a—it's an awesome, like, calming image. We have incredible voice actors and actresses, and it's a Bible verse with a daily prayer...
Matthew: Awesome.
Matt: ...every single day.
Matthew: Awesome.
Matt: And people absolutely love the daily prayer. And it's just—it's real quick. One to two minutes...
Matthew: Yes.
Matt: ...get you started on your day right, and we help people develop that good daily habit of prayer through a streak system. And so we will help you keep track of how many days in a row that you're praying.
Matthew: That's good.
Matt: It's really, really cool. I mean, imagine if you just got up and every day for 30 days straight, you prayed.
Matthew: Come on. How much...
Matt: ...different would your life be. Right? So that's number one. Number two, something that we're doing that I think is really dynamic is called Pray Science. And you would never put those two together, but it's a department that we started within the company. And we've hired some PhD science researchers...
Matthew: Wow.
Matt: ...to prove the efficacy of prayer on your physical body. Wouldn't it—wouldn't it make sense that if you pray and connect with your creator, the one that you're created in his image that would affect your physical body.
Matthew: Hundred percent.
Matt: Yeah. We just got published in three different scientific journals for our meditative prayer content series.
Matthew: Wow.
Matt: And it helps people's mental health. It helps reduce anxiety, reduce stress, increase sleep. So it's been really cool to see. And and you know what? People try to separate science and religion. And that, for me, is exciting because now I just wanna go put it together because God is the creator of the universe. He wrote all the rules that we use in science. So...
Matthew: What a great idea. Make sense.
Matt: What a great idea. Yeah. I mean, because it's no secret what the negative effects of all that anxiety and stress are having on our bodies and on our minds. Right? So...
Matthew: Yep. I mean, the idea that we can cast all our cares upon him because he cares...
Matt: That's right.
Matthew: For us. And what I also love about what you've done with PRAY.COM is meeting people right where they're at, like you said. I think that's a really important part about, like, oh, church attendance is going down. It's—it's gloom and doom for the Christian community. But you're exactly right. That analogy about the movie theater is is spot on.
And so for you to be creating PRAY.COM and lowering the barrier for entry too, because I know a lot of times even as a follower of Christ—I've been a Christian for a long time, Matt, and I know you have as well. And sometimes we can be guilty of, like, being so focused on, like, praying the perfect types of prayers or we compartmentalize. Like, if I don't have that dedicated—you know, I in other words, it's the opposite of a grace driven existence.
Even when it comes to spending time with God, I tend to beat myself up over my, you know, lack of quality quiet time as much as anything else I beat myself up over. We're always looking because the enemy knows that if he can get us to start punching ourselves, he can go focus on somebody else. You know what I mean?
Matt: Totally.
Matthew: I always had that image of, like, sometimes my spiritual life is, like, you know, like, two boxers in a ring, and then they ring the bell. Can you imagine if one fighter just started hitting himself? The other boxer, you know, he declares victory and moves on. A lot of times, that can be my spiritual life. And when it comes to my prayer, it can be like that.
So just even like you said, that streak, that that quick little one minute—and that's the other thing, Matt, is the opportunity to have PRAY.COM join somebody in their spiritual journey and to help us to like, I need to continue to grow in that understanding that God doesn't desire a one official quiet time with him every morning that is uninterrupted. What he desires is an ongoing conversation with his children. Like, you think about that.
Matt: Right.
Matthew: I wouldn't be good if my daughter just talked to me once in the morning and I never got to talk to her the rest of the day. I want—I wanna check-in with that kid. You know what I mean? And how much more does that—
Matt: Exactly.
Matthew: How much more does our—that's the definition of a true relationship. I'm checking in with my wife and my daughter throughout the day where, you know, and so that—I love that old hymn, and he walks with me, and he talks with me, and he tells me I am his own. And I so I feel like even as I've been a Christian for a long time, I'm still having to relearn that understanding of what a true friendship and relationship with Jesus looks like. It's not just that one, you know, quiet time, and if you missed it, you know, you're a horrible Christian. You know? So I just—I love the reminders you're given today.
PRAY.COM started eight years ago, and it is has absolutely blown up. And it started with a kid who almost wasn't here. And...
Matt: Yeah.
Matthew: And here, I just am just blown away by your testimony, by your story, and the fruit that has come from you seeking to live your life for a greater purpose. And I was so excited to share with our listeners today. For those who don't know about PRAY.COM, they can go download the app today. Right? Like, right now.
Matt: Yeah. Actually, you know, I wasn't sure if I was gonna do this or not. But today, you can get—there's a—there's a portion of the app that requires a subscription. But if you go to PRAY.COM forward slash Matt, M-A-T-T, you can get the entire app for free. No credit card, nothing. You just log in. You'll get the whole app for free. So just by listening to the podcast today, PRAY.COM forward slash Matt, you'll get the entire thing for free.
Matthew: Guys, go do that right now. You will not regret it. This is—now more than ever, we need to be filling our heads and our hearts with the good stuff, and PRAY.COM is delivering that literally every single minute of every single day for 1,700 years, apparently. 1,700 years of content.
Matt, I just wanna encourage you to keep up the incredible work. Your story's powerful. And one last thing I wanna share to anybody listening to this, be inspired by Matt's story to recognize how God has uniquely equipped and gifted each and every one of his children. He did not make a mistake in the way that you're wired.
And so let us learn from a guy like Matt who said, you know, I—other people are stronger in sports, but I kinda wanna take this phone apart and put it back together in a garage. Look what can happen when you commit the unique giftings and skill sets you have to the Lord. You seek his plan. He knows the plans he has for us, and he knows that he's wired us accordingly to fulfill the plans he has for us. And your story is living proof for that, and that fires me up today. So thanks for that reminder too, Matt.
Matt: Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Two Matt's on a podcast, man. Let's do this again, dude. Thanks for hanging with me today.
Matthew: Awesome. Can't wait.
Matthew West: Matt, thank you so much for joining me. Two Matts on a podcast, man. It doesn't get any better than this. Does anybody ever call you Matthew, or do you like to go by Matt?
Matt Potter: You know, Matt or Matthew doesn't matter to me. I'll respond to both.
Matthew: Really? Okay. Like, but when you were a kid, like, were you in trouble if mom called you Matthew?
Matt: Matthew, I was in trouble. Then, you know, mom and dad always add the middle name and last name when you're in trouble. Right?
Matthew: Is that something like I feel like that's like a thing that all parents just instinctively do at some point. I don't know what that is, but...
Matt: I don't know what it is either. Also, counting to 3. Right? You know?
Matthew: Yes. Yes. Okay. So when you were growing up, were you ever... did anybody ever go with Maddie? Because I was Maddie in high school sports and stuff like that. The coaches would call me Maddie. What's your take on that?
Matt: No. Maybe different because I was in SoCal, but everybody went by last names out here. So, you know, when you were playing sports, it was always Potter, Potterman, you know, all sorts of because my last name is Potter. But yeah.
Matthew: Nice. Nice. Well, Matt Potter is here on the podcast today. Welcome to the show. I'd like to say welcome to the story house because even though we're virtual today, this studio where I'm coming to you from is called the story house. And it's a very special place where I write all my songs. It's where I record the podcast and where we dive into the power of story and most importantly, the story that God's writing through each and every one of our lives.
And I've gotten to know your story a little bit. You and I got to meet in person. I wanna say at Red Rocks was the first time I shook your hand. We were doing a concert at Red Rocks. I got to meet you backstage. And then we got to have a conversation, and I got to hear more of your story and how PRAY.COM was born. And I was inspired by it.
And so as I've been releasing this music that is themed on the topic encouraging people, don't stop praying, I've also wanted just to help point people to incredible resources that are out there. I'm sure everybody already knows about PRAY.COM. But for those few who've been living under a rock, the rest of them are gonna find out today not only about what PRAY.COM offers in their daily walk with the Lord, but to me, the heart behind it and the why of how Matt Potter wound up launching PRAY.COM. So can we talk about you're a kid growing up in Southern California and your initial dreams and idea of what success equaled in life. Can we start there with what your first aim in life was?
Matt: Absolutely. So I'll actually take it back even a little bit further, to a 15-year-old girl who's walking down the street in Washington state crying and praying because she's on her way to an abortion clinic because she's 15 and she's pregnant. And on her way to that clinic, she popped into a church because she was feeling guilty and ashamed. Right? And she wanted to talk to the pastor about the biggest decision she was gonna make in her life up to that point.
And when she talked to the pastor, the pastor ended up calling a buddy of his who planted a 20-person church in Los Angeles. And the pastor in Los Angeles said, you know, it's providence you just called me about this girl. I've been counseling this Christian couple. They're married, and they've been trying to have children for 10 years and couldn't. I want you to go back in there and ask that girl if she'd be willing to give her baby up for adoption.
So, Matt, I was the baby the girl brought into the church. And I got adopted because of these two pastors that were friends. And my adopted dad, because he got me from the church, was so inspired by the pastor that, you know, he got his son from the church that he ended up becoming the head elder of this little 20-person church and helping the pastor grow it to a—I kinda grew up in church. And with my pastor being like a second dad to me, and I was an introverted kid growing up. I like to build computers in my garage. I was very introverted.
My dad was really good at sports. My brother, who isn't adopted, was really good at sports. And I was the kid, like, building robots in the garage by myself.
Matthew: What is it about California and computers in garages? Like, what is it about...
Matt: I don't know. It's just the perfect place. You know?
Matthew: Was you like, that's where you gravitate. You were just passionate about tech early?
Matt: Yeah. I was just passionate about learning how things worked and taking things apart and putting them back together very, very early on in my childhood. So I did all sorts of things. I probably made my parents super frustrated because the phone would be apart and in pieces everywhere. I wanted to learn how it worked and all sorts—you know, the fax machine, all this stuff.
So, but finally, I kinda got into software. And in high school, I got the unique opportunity. My friend was a voice actor. His dad was a voice actor and invited me out to Silicon Valley. And so I went up there to a new company called Pixar. Oh, yeah. I got this unique opportunity to meet Steve Jobs. And I didn't really know who Steve was when I was up there, and I got to see him and meet him at Pixar. Wow. See some of the cool things that they were doing with computers, like making animated movies. Right?
And, yeah. When I went home, I was just—I felt super inspired, and I started looking into Steve Jobs' story, and I learned that he was adopted. And I was finally, I was like, I'm not weird. There's computer guys that are adopted. And so I started following Steve's life, and I went to Boise State University. And my senior year of college, Steve Jobs got up on stage and launched the App Store on the iPhone.
And I called my mom and dad. I'll never forget it. And they were super upset, Matt. But I called them and I said, you know what? I'm gonna drop out of school, and I am going to get into apps. It's gonna be a big thing. And my mom and dad weren't too excited about that, but dropped out of college, started a company, roped my college roommate into that company, and we built a white label version. So like a skinned version of Zillow, Trulia, or Redfin back in the day.
And we realized that real estate companies weren't gonna build their own apps, and there should be a company that builds apps for real estate companies. And so I built that company over 10 years. I racked up a bunch of credit card debt, did our round of financing from Visa and Mastercard. And, you know, 10 years into that company, it ended up doing really well. And I built over 8,000 apps in the App Store for all the major real estate companies in the United States.
Matthew: Say that one more time. 8,000 apps...
Matt: 8,000. Yeah. For all the major real estate companies.
Matthew: Unbelievable.
Matt: Yeah. It was super fun. You know, we're building apps for Coldwell Banker, Century 21, Sotheby's. All at the ripe old age of what, Matt?
Matt: Let's see. I started at 19, 20 years old. So, yeah, it's kinda been my entire life, apps right now. Just dove in, you know, and God kinda—God was pushing me in that direction since I was a little kid.
So Homestack was doing really well. Everything was, you know, working great. Customers were super happy. But you know what? I was coming to work every day, Matthew, just feeling empty inside. I hit my goals. I reached this weird point in my life where I didn't have to work anymore if I didn't want to, and I didn't know what to do with myself.
And, you know, reached out to some friends and they said, Matt, shut up. Go buy a fancy Italian sports car. Like, don't talk to me.
Matthew: Yeah. You got a good life. What are you complaining about?
Matt: Yeah. Yeah. Why are you complaining? But I just felt like I lost my purpose. I felt like I wasn't on track with God's plan for my life. And so called my pastor, asked him how I could help and get back. And he said, Matt, we're opening a new campus in Santa Monica for the veterans. Why don't you help me open the campus? Like, be the campus pastor.
And I was like, I'm an introverted tech entrepreneur, didn't go to seminary. That sounds terrifying. That's so amazing. And I just—I couldn't believe that he asked me to do that because it's, like, complete opposite of my personality type. And so, you know, I just said, I don't know. That scares me. And he said, well, pray about it. Just pray about it. I said, okay.
So I prayed about it. The very next day, I was at a coffee shop in my hometown here, and my good buddy walks through the door. And we played on rival high school football teams. He started his first company the same time I started mine, and his name is Steve Gatena. And Steve walked through the door, and he didn't look great. He just looked like he had been through a tough time.
And I asked Steve to sit down and grab a cup of coffee with me. And what I didn't know, Matthew, is Steve became the 29-year-old CEO of the world's largest aerial production company. And so they had 40 aircraft, helicopters, planes and jets. They would film all the major motion pictures. So like Jurassic World, Transformers. I don't know if you have an Apple TV, but all the Apple TV backgrounds, they did all those.
And Steve experienced a tragedy in his life when he was working, doing that company. His cofounder died making a movie in Colombia called American Made with Tom Cruise. And in the filming of the movie, Steve's business partner died in a plane crash. And, you know, they were just taking the plane back to the hangar in a routine trip after flying with Tom Cruise all day, and it was super tough. Steve didn't know what to do.
And so he was listening to, like, Tony Robbins and Deepak Chopra. Like, Steve grew up to a single Jewish mom on welfare. He didn't grow up going to church or listening to Christian music, you know. And so a former Navy SEAL that worked at the company with Steve said, "Hey, boss. I've dealt with leadership when people have died. What are you doing for yourself?" And Steve didn't have a good answer. And so the Navy SEAL shared him an audio sermon from a pastor in Texas, and it changed Steve's life and he became a Christian.
And he actually wanted to build the ESPN for Christians. He's like, why don't we have the digital destination for Christians? That must be why I didn't know about this. Like, because there's no digital destination. Like, if I wanna go sports, I go to ESPN. If I want kids content, I go to Disney.
Matthew: Right. Right. Right.
Matt: Why is there no digital destination for Christians? So he called a buddy of his in India who had built some e-commerce apps, flew him out to California, and was meeting him at this coffee shop. And when I ran into Steve, the guy just told him that he couldn't build what he wanted him to build. And God's providence. Right? Like, I just talked to my pastor the night before.
Matthew: Yeah. Everything's going great. I'm looking for something new, something bigger to give back. Steve tells me, PRAY.COM, the digital destination for Christians. And so I stepped down as CEO of my company the next day. Steve and I linked up and our—we have two other incredible cofounders. And we went up to Silicon Valley. And because of Steve and I's backgrounds, we raised, like, 37 million dollars to start PRAY.COM.
Matthew: Amazing.
Matt: And it's just been incredible. It's—that was eight years ago. Fast forward to today, we've got 2.5 billion listening minutes, which for you math nerds out there is, like, 1,700 years of content consumption.
Matthew: Unbelievable. Mind boggling to think about.
Matt: People have shared the gospel and the content in the app a hundred and 52 million times.
Matthew: Wow.
Matt: And, yeah. So it's just been a remarkable journey, and God's had his hand on the company and on us from the very beginning.
Matthew: And you never had to be the introvert turned pastor assistant pastor at that—at that church. Right?
Matt: That's right. That's right.
Matthew: That is incredible. Say that one more—was 1,700 what was it? 1,700 years?
Matt: 1,700 years of content consumption. Yeah.
Matthew: Unbelievable. That's wild. People say there is no God, but it's like, who else can orchestrate the journey that you just shared about your life story and then connecting with Steve in that way and even and using using grief and using an adoption story and using unique giftings and a kid in a garage who wants to take things—I mean, it's just the intricacies of that orchestrated story and those stories colliding for that moment and you guys meeting and starting PRAY.COM. It's like, just that right there. It's like, who could say there is no God? That's amazing.
Matt: I agree. I agree. It's been a...
Matthew: Talk about journey. Talk about the feeling of fulfillment—because your eyes light up when you talk about the amount of hours of consumed information and content from PRAY.COM and how much it's been shared. And I mean and you're full of life when you're telling me those statistics. And when you were telling me about the success of the other companies, I mean, there's a marked difference. Like, you're just you know, you're like, hey. This was really successful. You coulda had the fancy sports car. You didn't have to work again.
But just talk about the difference of feeling when PRAY.COM launched and now you're eight years later with all that it's done, what does fulfillment feel like now, getting to taste of being a part of something that, my friend Tom says something that has eternality. Of course, that's just a fancy word for eternal value, eternal wealth, eternal purpose. Talk about the difference in that feeling that you get inside when you go to work every day now.
Matt: So the only way I can describe it is with a with a story. And, you know, very beginning, it's me and my three cofounder, Steve, Ryan, and Mike. We're literally in a broom closet in Santa Monica. It's, like, 6 by 9 feet, and there's four of us in this room. And it has no air conditioning, and it's literally—it was a closet. We moved everything out that was in the closet out.
And we just had finished the first version of the app, and a woman named Mary was downloading the app. And for some reason, the login email was going to spam. She couldn't log in to the app. And Mary was a woman who was going through stage 4 cancer for the second time. She had outlived all of her family members. Her husband and kids had all passed away, and she was all by herself.
And, you know, in the early days when it's four people, you think, like, you're calling a big call center, you know, and for customer support. In the early days, we had a phone number and it would ring all of our phones and somebody had to pick up. So I picked up and talked to Mary, and she said, Matt, I'm in the chemo chair. I'm listening to PRAY.COM. And I can't log in anymore. And I wanna listen to Bible stories. I don't know how long I have.
And I just said, I'm so sorry. I'm gonna help you. I spent, like, an hour on the phone with her. We gave her the entire app for free. She had no idea she was talking to one of the founders.
Matthew: No. She had no idea. She thought I was some customer...
Matthew: Amazing.
Matt: ...support person, which, you know, which is totally fine.
Matthew: Amazing.
Matt: You know, helped her out, got her into the app. And her story just—it weighs heavy on my heart because of all the things that she was going through. And she wanted to spend those moments in the chemo chair listening to the app and praying to her Lord and savior. Right?
And so, fast forward a couple years, and I'm traveling around the country speaking at megachurches, having people download the app to use the app. And I'm in Sacramento, and I'm speaking at a church in Sacramento. And I tell everybody about the app, and I'm about to leave, and a woman comes and pulls me aside, and it was her.
Matthew: Wow.
Matt: And she just came up and gave me a big hug. She didn't even say anything. She just gave me a big hug, and I kinda knew. But then she told me that she called in, and she was still alive. I broke down, like—and I don't cry a lot. And it was, like, I broke down when I was talking to her.
And, you know, that's the fulfillment is people like Mary who have nowhere to turn. We had a police officer write in from Ohio who said that he was gonna go and commit suicide. And a friend of his, one of those 152 million shares was a friend of this police officer, shared him the app on his way home...
Matthew: Wow.
Matt: ...where he was planning to kill himself.
Matthew: Wow.
Matt: And he said—he said, thank you for saving my life. And we just replied to him and said, we didn't save your life. God did. We just made the connection for you. That's it.
And so that's what fulfillment looks like for me and for, you know, everybody that shares the gospel or shares a piece of content at a PRAY.COM to a family member or friend. Like...
Matthew: And what a great point you're making about the opportunity that people have that if they've been impacted by PRAY.COM. You know, sometimes, I mean, we can all be guilty of stopping short of we the hope we found in Christ, and we forget about the importance of sharing that hope with others.
And so, you know, you found hope in Christ. And if you would've just stopped short of that and not thought about launching PRAY.COM, imagine how many people wouldn't have been reached with the message of the gospel. And now you're getting to repeat stories of impact that have been felt. So just a reminder—just a quick little reminder for everybody listening right now. Don't hold the hope that you have in Christ to yourself. Don't keep that to yourself. And sharing something as simple as sharing the PRAY.COM app with somebody who you know is struggling literally might be the lifeline that they need.
Matt, have you noticed and sensed—I mean, clearly, you're like, because of what you've done and stepping out in faith and leaving the comfortable behind and daring to do something bold. I love the idea of, like, the ESPN for Christians. Like, I love that that big vision. Like, that fires me up.
But so you found yourself on the front lines or someone with your finger on the poles, especially from a technological standpoint of what is stirring in our culture, in our nation, in our society. Are you finding that there is a spiritual longing, a spiritual hunger, a spiritual thirst where people are either coming to God for the first time or coming back to God or just even searching for faith like never before. I'm just curious what your take on our current state is.
Matt: Absolutely. And I think that's why I love the new album that you're coming out with, because people can share music. They can share things that help people with their mental and spiritual health. And we—we have a mental health crisis in America. It's not a secret. Like, people are dealing with a lot right now. And they're coming back to their faith more and more than ever before.
If you listen to big media, they would say that church attendance is going down. Right. And that we're becoming less of a Christian nation. But, really, I liken church to movie theaters. Movie theaters have less attendance. Are people watching less movies? No.
So we started digging into Christian media consumption. And believe it or not, in the last 24 months, it's up 52 percent.
Matthew: Wow.
Matt: So people are coming back more than ever before. They're just going here, and they're going to their phone. And they're opening their phone how many times a day, and that's where they're consuming the content. And so we gotta go where people are at, because, you know, big tech is is driving this—these values of comparison, of strife, of separating people. Right?
But, you know, like, what you're doing with your music and with your album and, like, what we're doing with apps, we can bring people together. We can point to heaven and say, look, Jesus is your Lord and savior, and we can remind people to really dive into the Bible and dive into all of their favorite Bible stories and Christian music. That's incredible.
Matthew: And I'm curious. You have so many great speakers, authors, influencers who are on PRAY.COM. There's no shortage of powerful, literally daily content that people can be just—I mean, it—what we put into our minds and our hearts is gonna—it's gonna affect good or bad, our mental, our spiritual, our physical, our emotional health.
And so you're giving no shortage of outlets. Give me something that when you think about, like, somebody going to PRAY.COM for the first time or downloading the app, where do you—where do you go—where do you hope they go first? Or what's something you'd say, oh, they gotta check this out because this is brand new or whatever?
Matt: So the very first thing that I would say—so two things. First thing is our daily prayer. It's one of the things that's shared the most in the app. So it's a—it's an awesome, like, calming image. We have incredible voice actors and actresses, and it's a Bible verse with a daily prayer...
Matthew: Awesome.
Matt: ...every single day.
Matthew: Awesome.
Matt: And people absolutely love the daily prayer. And it's just—it's real quick. One to two minutes...
Matthew: Yes.
Matt: ...get you started on your day right, and we help people develop that good daily habit of prayer through a streak system. And so we will help you keep track of how many days in a row that you're praying.
Matthew: That's good.
Matt: It's really, really cool. I mean, imagine if you just got up and every day for 30 days straight, you prayed.
Matthew: Come on. How much...
Matt: ...different would your life be. Right? So that's number one. Number two, something that we're doing that I think is really dynamic is called Pray Science. And you would never put those two together, but it's a department that we started within the company. And we've hired some PhD science researchers...
Matthew: Wow.
Matt: ...to prove the efficacy of prayer on your physical body. Wouldn't it—wouldn't it make sense that if you pray and connect with your creator, the one that you're created in his image that would affect your physical body.
Matthew: Hundred percent.
Matt: Yeah. We just got published in three different scientific journals for our meditative prayer content series.
Matthew: Wow.
Matt: And it helps people's mental health. It helps reduce anxiety, reduce stress, increase sleep. So it's been really cool to see. And and you know what? People try to separate science and religion. And that, for me, is exciting because now I just wanna go put it together because God is the creator of the universe. He wrote all the rules that we use in science. So...
Matthew: What a great idea. Make sense.
Matt: What a great idea. Yeah. I mean, because it's no secret what the negative effects of all that anxiety and stress are having on our bodies and on our minds. Right? So...
Matthew: Yep. I mean, the idea that we can cast all our cares upon him because he cares...
Matt: That's right.
Matthew: For us. And what I also love about what you've done with PRAY.COM is meeting people right where they're at, like you said. I think that's a really important part about, like, oh, church attendance is going down. It's—it's gloom and doom for the Christian community. But you're exactly right. That analogy about the movie theater is is spot on.
And so for you to be creating PRAY.COM and lowering the barrier for entry too, because I know a lot of times even as a follower of Christ—I've been a Christian for a long time, Matt, and I know you have as well. And sometimes we can be guilty of, like, being so focused on, like, praying the perfect types of prayers or we compartmentalize. Like, if I don't have that dedicated—you know, I in other words, it's the opposite of a grace driven existence.
Even when it comes to spending time with God, I tend to beat myself up over my, you know, lack of quality quiet time as much as anything else I beat myself up over. We're always looking because the enemy knows that if he can get us to start punching ourselves, he can go focus on somebody else. You know what I mean?
Matt: Totally.
Matthew: I always had that image of, like, sometimes my spiritual life is, like, you know, like, two boxers in a ring, and then they ring the bell. Can you imagine if one fighter just started hitting himself? The other boxer, you know, he declares victory and moves on. A lot of times, that can be my spiritual life. And when it comes to my prayer, it can be like that.
So just even like you said, that streak, that that quick little one minute—and that's the other thing, Matt, is the opportunity to have PRAY.COM join somebody in their spiritual journey and to help us to like, I need to continue to grow in that understanding that God doesn't desire a one official quiet time with him every morning that is uninterrupted. What he desires is an ongoing conversation with his children. Like, you think about that.
Matt: Right.
Matthew: I wouldn't be good if my daughter just talked to me once in the morning and I never got to talk to her the rest of the day. I want—I wanna check-in with that kid. You know what I mean? And how much more does that—
Matt: Exactly.
Matthew: How much more does our—that's the definition of a true relationship. I'm checking in with my wife and my daughter throughout the day where, you know, and so that—I love that old hymn, and he walks with me, and he talks with me, and he tells me I am his own. And I so I feel like even as I've been a Christian for a long time, I'm still having to relearn that understanding of what a true friendship and relationship with Jesus looks like. It's not just that one, you know, quiet time, and if you missed it, you know, you're a horrible Christian. You know? So I just—I love the reminders you're given today.
PRAY.COM started eight years ago, and it is has absolutely blown up. And it started with a kid who almost wasn't here. And...
Matt: Yeah.
Matthew: And here, I just am just blown away by your testimony, by your story, and the fruit that has come from you seeking to live your life for a greater purpose. And I was so excited to share with our listeners today. For those who don't know about PRAY.COM, they can go download the app today. Right? Like, right now.
Matt: Yeah. Actually, you know, I wasn't sure if I was gonna do this or not. But today, you can get—there's a—there's a portion of the app that requires a subscription. But if you go to PRAY.COM forward slash Matt, M-A-T-T, you can get the entire app for free. No credit card, nothing. You just log in. You'll get the whole app for free. So just by listening to the podcast today, PRAY.COM forward slash Matt, you'll get the entire thing for free.
Matthew: Guys, go do that right now. You will not regret it. This is—now more than ever, we need to be filling our heads and our hearts with the good stuff, and PRAY.COM is delivering that literally every single minute of every single day for 1,700 years, apparently. 1,700 years of content.
Matt, I just wanna encourage you to keep up the incredible work. Your story's powerful. And one last thing I wanna share to anybody listening to this, be inspired by Matt's story to recognize how God has uniquely equipped and gifted each and every one of his children. He did not make a mistake in the way that you're wired.
And so let us learn from a guy like Matt who said, you know, I—other people are stronger in sports, but I kinda wanna take this phone apart and put it back together in a garage. Look what can happen when you commit the unique giftings and skill sets you have to the Lord. You seek his plan. He knows the plans he has for us, and he knows that he's wired us accordingly to fulfill the plans he has for us. And your story is living proof for that, and that fires me up today. So thanks for that reminder too, Matt.
Matt: Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Two Matt's on a podcast, man. Let's do this again, dude. Thanks for hanging with me today.
Matthew: Awesome. Can't wait.
