1. God Redeems Our Past: Ryan's journey from being arrested for drug dealing to becoming a faith-driven tech entrepreneur demonstrates how God can transform our darkest moments into platforms for Kingdom impact.
2. Providence in Business: The founding of PRAY.COM reveals how God orchestrates "chance" encounters and circumstances, bringing together the right people with complementary skills at precisely the right time.
3. Leadership Through Service: As CTO, Ryan embodies Jesus' model of leadership by focusing on empowering others rather than wielding power over them, reflecting the principle that "love means you serve."
4. Balanced Ambition: Ryan addresses the tension between driving business growth and maintaining healthy relationships, acknowledging how God is teaching him to be excellent not just in business but as a husband and friend as well.
5. Healthy Team Collaboration: Developing a culture of humility enables the leadership team to navigate disagreements constructively, putting the mission before personal ego or preferences.
6. The "Solomon Model": Ryan suggests that, like Solomon building the temple, Christian entrepreneurs can work with both believers and non-believers who support the mission, creating a "missionary not mercenary" culture.‍
7. Digital Transformation of Faith: As church attendance patterns change post-pandemic, PRAY.COM serves as a bridge, helping churches reach people where they are and fostering digital faith communities.

Shae Bynes: Welcome back to the Kingdom Driven Entrepreneur podcast. This is your host Shae Bynes, and our goal here is to inspire you to operate your business completely yielded and in partnership with our awesome and limitless God. Being a Kingdom Driven Entrepreneur is not the same thing as being a Christian who happens to be a business owner. A Kingdom Driven Entrepreneur is motivated by seeing an increase of the Kingdom of God through the work they do in business, and they are propelled forward by operating from the truth of Matthew 6:33. They seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, knowing that all things will be added. So that's why we're here, and I'm so glad that you joined us today.

Today's episode is sponsored by our upcoming KDE Live 2022, taking place in Music City USA, Nashville, Tennessee on November 11th and 12th. Our theme this year is Capacity Upgrade, and that is what we believe every attendee is going to receive during our time together. Greater Kingdom capacity to yield to God, to dream with God, to collaborate with others, and to build with God and others in the marketplace.

[Host introduces Ryan Beck]

Ryan Beck, what's going on, man?

Ryan Beck: Oh, nothing much. How are you doing, Shae?

Shae: I am doing really good. It is a delight to get a chance to meet you, and so thanks for coming on the podcast. You are the Chief Technology Officer and a co-founder at PRAY.COM.

Ryan: Yep. Sure am. So it's been quite a journey. We've been doing this for about 6 years from initial conversation to today. So, yeah, it's been great.

Shae: Nice. And so for those who aren't familiar with PRAY.COM, this is a primarily mobile app. You guys have, like, over 10 million downloads. Tell us a little bit about PRAY.COM.

Ryan: Yeah. So, PRAY.COM, well, it is definitely a story of God's providence and guidance and how He's guided us, all the founders and the team. But what we've been able to build is the number one daily prayer app for prayer, but also for faith audio. So we've been able to bring in Christian audio content that we've produced from pastors all across the globe and provide that to the Christian audience, to the church, to supplement them in their journey Sunday to Sunday on growing their faith and cultivating community. So we've been extremely blessed to be that number one prayer app. We have PRAY.COM, obviously, the website for faith, and then we also have the mobile apps as you said.

Shae: Very good. Okay. Good stuff. So something that we share in common is a background in computer science. That's what I got my undergrad degree in as well. So you were a software engineer. That's what you went to school for. Right? And so I'm curious to know a little bit about your background in terms of how you even start. I don't know whether PRAY.COM was the first time you've walked into entrepreneurship, you know, at college or tell me a little bit about your start in business.

Ryan: So, well, it depends how far you wanna go back and what you'd consider business, I guess.

Shae: Well, I'll say entrepreneurship, but there could have been seeds along the way that led there. So, I'm down for all of that.

Ryan: Yeah. So, well, I would say I've always had this inkling for entrepreneurship to do something, to start my own business. I wasn't always a Christian. I became a Christian when I was about 19 years old.

Shae: Okay.

Ryan: And my first entrepreneurship, my first adventure into business was actually not a legit business. But it shaped who I am and it shaped...

Shae: You said it's not a legit business. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm like, I can't just let that fast. Do you mean it was an illegal business? Are you talking about a past life? Your pre-saved life business pursuit?

Ryan: Yeah. So, I actually when I was 18, I got arrested for sales and transportation of narcotics.

Shae: Ah.

Ryan: So I thought, you know what? I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna start my own business outside of it. That one's gonna be legit. You know? Like, if you've ever talked to somebody in that scene, you know, you develop these mindsets. I grew up in a low-income area in Southern California. And so most of our dealings, my friends and I, were not legitimate when it came to making money. And so anyways, I got arrested. But during that time, I actually—that's when God put His hand on me the most. And that's when He came in.

He surrounded me with people in jail that were like, "What are you doing? You're 18. You got your life ahead. You wanna be like us? You know, you wanna be a big shot in the pen or a big shot on the golf course?" I said, "I don't like golf, but I get the point."

And I just remember the Holy Spirit grabbed ahold of me one night. I was praying, said, "God, I don't believe in Jesus. I'm reading. I'm getting some scriptures, but I don't believe my heart is hard." Those were my words. I was not a Christian. It's very Christianized language.

Shae: I'm not—that's very Christianese for someone who wasn't a believer. "My heart is hard."

Ryan: Yeah. And I remember those words distinctly because I had never really used them. And I just remember waking up with this profound confidence that Jesus is the one I'm supposed to follow.

Shae: Wow.

Ryan: Can't explain it beyond—you just—2 plus 2 equals 4. Jesus is the one I'm supposed to follow. It's this profound confidence. Yes. This is the truth that I need to guide my life upon.

And I got out very soon after. And that was a journey of laying down a new foundation, letting God guide my life, shape my ambitions. Ambition to me is very important in building businesses. You want to do great things, you want to do these things, but I needed to lay a different ethical framework...

Shae: Yes!

Ryan: ...which I was operating from. And so, I started doing that. I had the opportunity to go to Bible College. Pastor that I was attending the church at, Pastor Rob McCoy, dear friend, and someone who saw something in me and said, "Hey. You wanna go to Bible College?" I said, "Yeah. I would love to. Let's do it."

So I did that and trained to become a minister, worked in the ministry after I went to Bible College for 2 years. During that 2 years, I found that a pastor is not the life for me. Not a calling that God has placed on my heart, and in my life to this day. You know, things change. You know, my ways are not His ways, and His plans are not my plans. So, I just—I knew it wasn't what He was calling me to do. So, I went and got my computer science degree.

Shae: And what was the draw for you to computer science?

Ryan: Actually, I went for philosophy because I love philosophy. So, like, all the books behind me, they're just, you know, philosophy books.

And so I went for philosophy. But then I was—my friends at college were like, "Well, you know, what are we gonna do if we don't want to do 6 more years of schooling after this and become philosophy professors?" Right.

So, one of my friends is like, "Well, there's computer science." I said, "Well, what is that?" He's like, "Well, you know, it's like our logic classes but you get paid for it." And it was computers. And I said, "Alright. Let's see it."

And I had like a semester where I only had one class that I had to take and then I had to fill it with a bunch of random stuff. So I was like, "Ah. Right. Computer science." And, I remember going into that, I had to explain to the computer science department. I said, "I'm only doing this if I can get a major in it, but I need to do it in a year."

And they're like, "Hey, good luck." I said, "Well, I got a plan. Just give me this chance." And so I gave them that plan and they said, "Alright, go for it." And so I went in and started doing computer science, fell in love with it.

Shae: Wow.

Ryan: And I found out that my—you know, I had a great grade, but my grades in computer science were better than philosophy. And so I was like, alright, I'm gonna continue down this path. Got a great opportunity to work with a nonprofit organization called Mission India, and they do philanthropic work and ministry work across India, but also the greater Asia area, helping with literacy with children and women, helping them develop businesses. So they would literally help these women develop these business skills to start their own businesses. And they also help plant churches, raise up pastors, and things like that.

Shae: And so I'm assuming you made it—you're saying you've had—you were able to kinda make that bridge relatively quickly that it's like, wow. I can use this gift and interest that I have here in technology and use it in a way that advances the Kingdom. So you kinda made that bridge pretty quick, it sounds like.

Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. It was something where, you know, I found that I have these skills that God has gifted me with that I'm pretty good at. I like to think. And I was able to apply them in a very purposeful way. I was able to really impact lives.

And it was fortunate that I was able to get this job because I had a felony on my record at that point.

Shae: Right.

Ryan: And especially in the computer science field, like, I would get far and—

Shae: Like hacking, right?

Ryan: Yeah. I couldn't even get a job at Taco Bell or Starbucks.

Shae: Yeah. It's tough.

Ryan: And so I was able to get this. They're a little more forgiving at these nonprofit organizations.

Shae: Right.

Ryan: So I was like, "Wow. This is a great way where I can take some technical skills that not a lot of people have and do some incredible work." I mean, they were flying briefcases back from India to America with the data on their projects.

Shae: Wow.

Ryan: They were—we were transforming the way they did data collection and data information to get it out to their donors and other people about all the great work that they were doing. Because they were doing truly great work. It was just transferring that knowledge over back to the states and showing all the impact that they're having.

Shae: Wow. That's so simple, but it's so powerful. And I was able to see, alright. This is how I can connect my skills that I've been gifted with to impact the Kingdom of God.

Ryan: And so good.

Shae: Yeah. And it was kind of, you know, it's happenstance, but it's God's guiding. Right?

Ryan: Absolutely. I'm inviting these people in my life to direct my path.

Shae: Yeah. I went to it with computer science, but He put these people in my life, directed my path, and opened these doors. And, you know, I had the opportunity to walk through them.

Shae: And so, yeah. So that's good. So then where did PRAY.COM—like, what's the genesis of that?

Ryan: So, another kind of providential moment is, I'm back—I moved back to California. I'm working remotely for Mission India. And I'm going to the grocery store, and next to the grocery store is this great Mexican restaurant. I'm walking in. I see an old friend from junior high and high school. I go, "Hey, Steve. How's it going?"

And Steve Gatena is the CEO and my business partner at PRAY.COM. And he just went through a tragedy, actually, and was transitioning from one position as CEO of an aerial surveillance and helicopter company.

Shae: Okay.

Ryan: He had that very tragic loss. His business partner died in a helicopter accident.

Shae: Oh, wow.

Ryan: Real. And so, yeah, that—his business partner was big in Hollywood because he was the main guy, one of the main guys in flying helicopters and things. And there were actually—I think it was "American Made." They were filming with Tom Cruise in the helicopter. They had a crash.

Shae: Wow.

Ryan: Back and it was in Colombia, I believe.

Shae: Wow.

Ryan: Yeah. So, super unfortunate circumstances. But he wasn't raised religious either. And he was having this moment of, "I'm having this tragedy. How do I deal with it?" And people are giving him all this inspirational stuff to help him through it. And one person gave him a message from a pastor. And he's like, "I don't know. I'm not—I don't know if this is really for me." Right. You know? And it resonated with him. He listened to it. It resonated with him. And he's like, "Wow. This is helpful."

And he wanted to find more stuff like that, but he had a hard time. He had to go to YouTube and search through the billions and billions of random videos. Right? There was no—

Shae: And, he was not a believer at this moment.

Ryan: He was not a believer at this moment. And there was no single destination to go for and say, "Oh, I wanna find more faith content." Right.

And then, it led him down this journey of, "Okay, I'm in this transitionary period." He had the opportunity to purchase PRAY.COM, the domain, and he said, "The digital destination for faith."

Shae: So I mean, wow. PRAY.COM. What year was this?

Ryan: This is 2016.

Shae: 2016. So he acquired—so now was he—now was he a believer by this time at 2016—2016 when he's buying PRAY.COM? Was he a believer?

Ryan: No.

Shae: No. It was—this was like—

Ryan: Oh my gosh. This is wild.

Ryan: Yeah. And so we run into each other. I'm thinking about either moving back to Michigan to help. They wanted to build an in-office place in Michigan for Mission India. They wanted to build their engineering team there. I'm thinking about going back or do I get a job here? I no longer have a felony, so the sky is blue.

Shae: Right?

Ryan: I'm like, I can get jobs now. This is great to know. And I run into him and say, "Hey. What's going on?" And he's like, "Well, you know, I'm just in the midst of a transition, thinking about doing something, thinking about building a website."

And I told him, you know, I'm—you know, we are computer science, studied computer science, went to Bible college. And he's like, "Oh, yeah. Well, maybe you can help me build a website." I'm like, "I got a lot of friends. I got a lot of websites, and they want me to do a lot of things. And so and it's always usually for free."

Shae: Right.

Ryan: He's and I'm like, he was always an outstanding guy. So I was like, "Yeah. Hey. Let's connect." And then he shoots me a text and he's like, "Yeah. I got this. I got the domain PRAY.COM." I said, "Oh, he's legit. Like, this is a legit thing. You don't just have PRAY.COM."

Shae: Exactly. Website.

Ryan: And so I was like, "Yeah, I think this would be great." And so it was just this providential moment where God is bringing us together. I hadn't seen him in like 8 years.

Shae: Wow.

Ryan: I think we had one encounter on a basketball court. He was running by and I said, "Hey." And it was, like, for 30 seconds. And so, you know, we hadn't seen each other for a very long time. And that was kind of the genesis of me coming in and connecting with him.

He was in conversations with my other business partner, Mike Lynn, and we've, who has this financial background that is our CFO, one of the co-founders. And then Matt Potter, another co-founder who lives in the area as well, who started this app, kind of white label app company, produced over 6000 apps. So it was this—the Providence bringing us all together at the right time. And so God was guiding us in that. And 2016, summer 2016, we just started talking about it. You know, like, our business model canvas, you know, doing all the things that they tell you to do. And so we're doing that, and that's the genesis of it.

Shae: Wow. And so that was so we're at 20—okay. So that's 6 years ago. Now. Okay. So this is really, this is actually very intriguing. This star was someone who was just kind of encountering some of the goodness that came from Scripture and was looking for like, well, I want more than—realize he can't find a place. But he still is like—he's not in—not in a relationship with Jesus. But then yet it's compelled to to come into this and then runs into you who just got to Bible college. This is kind of a funny story. I'm loving this.

So you guys start PRAY.COM. So when you started—kind of what—when you guys were like, what's the purpose behind what we're doing? Like, what was that vision from the front end? I know a lot of times these things kind of unveil themselves more and more over time. But what was that starting point?

Ryan: So the starting point was really the—this idea that Steve and his wife were they're ruminating on us. The digital destination for me. Steve is a sports guy. He's...

Shae: Yeah.

Ryan: Huge. He's not as big as he is—he was in, like, high school, college, but he played USC football. He was an offensive lineman, you know, 310, 6'5". And so he's thinking sports. He's like, "ESPN for faith. Let's do it." And so that's what he's thinking about. And more or less, that's what it's been. Like, let's get the best faith content. We started with audio content.

But, really, it was probably about 2017 Q1 of 2017 when we started, this is what we're building. We did some exercise—thought exercises. This is gonna be the app. It took on a different flavor actually. It was—we started with communities first. We found a need within the within the larger church ecosystem that they—these churches were still dabbling with online and figuring out online communities.

Shae: Right.

Ryan: Built this online—this kind of think about private Facebook groups for churches. So—

Shae: Right.

Ryan: Before donations were available on Facebook, we did it. Before prayer requests were available on Facebook, we were—that's what we were building for these church communities. And we found that it was a great opportunity to make inroads into these churches and form this network of leaders. But then we actually started adding in the content in 2019. We started producing a lot of this audio media. That's Steve's background. It was actually before the helicopter company—built the media company.

Shae: Yes.

Ryan: And so we started incorporating that media into tech. And so that's where this content—we then introduced audio content into the app in 2019 in the form of a daily prayer. We started super simple. Get a prayer, you know, think of like, you know, the word of the day.

Shae: Yeah. Little cards that you would have.

Ryan: Yes. So we started with that, but then you get an accompanying prayer. And then we started adding in other full-length Bible content, so Bible stories.

Shae: Right.

Ryan: And so you can go into the app and you can consume that. We've been able to partner with some great celebrities. We have a great pair making a sleep story and also some prayer plans and some other celebrities. So, and then just working with some amazing people in the faith space to bring kind of the Bible to life.

Shae: Yeah. That's so good. Okay. I'm gonna go behind the scenes now with you.

Ryan: Uh-huh.

Shae: Alright. So as a CTO—

Ryan: Yeah.

Shae: As a Chief Technology Officer, who desires to not just be, you know, a co-founder and growing this company that's just like, well, we're just doing all these things for God, and we wanna have social impact, but also someone who wants to be led by God, you know, I mean, He's the one who compelled you into accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. He's the one guiding your life. So someone who's like oriented in that way, what does it look like for you to actually be a CTO, but engage God in your day to day? What does that look like for you?

Ryan: Yeah. So I think that it starts with having that, you know, that devotion, that relationship. And that's a lot of what we do at PRAY.COM is helping people create these habits of faith, habits of prayer. So we have our daily prayer, but we also have today's devotional.

And so really, it starts with this devotion, setting the right mindset and understanding, and going back to that kind of laying the foundation. So I'm a huge believer in these foundational beliefs that God helps us form. And from that, it informs our actions and our words. And so it's not so much like, "Hey, God, you know, tell me what to say in this moment." It's more of like, "You've equipped me to respond correctly in this moment."

And so a lot of that is being Spirit-led, but being Spirit-led because of that foundational aspect of the fruits of the Spirit being raised with life. And so for me, it's about laying that foundation and operating from that foundation.

And one book that I'm a huge fan of is called "Love Works." And it is about letting love guide your business aspirations. And so that for me is foundational. Jesus came, He led with love. Right? He wasn't going around whipping and throwing tables all the time. He did it. You know? He has his moments. But he's always extending love. But it's always in truth. And it's always in power.

And so I think that there's this misconception sometimes that love is this kind of docile, it's this meek thing that doesn't speak up, is not courageous. But that's not the case. And so operating from a biblical view of love, a love led by the Spirit, so that I can encourage and empower others. And I think that's kind of the main thing about love in the business space. Is it's love. Showing the right attitude to empower your teammates.

And so, that's what it's about. Jesus empowered us to go and make disciples across the world. Right? And that's what—

Shae: That's what I've been blessed with the ability to lead a group of engineers and design—

Ryan: I was gonna ask about that. Do you have a—you've got a group of software engineers that you're leading, right?

Shae: Yeah. And one thing I tell them, I'm like, "Whether you know it or not, when you decided to join PRAY.COM, you said, 'Ryan, I will let you lead me.' This may be a revelation to you at this moment, but I'm telling you, you voted to let me lead you."

Ryan: Yes.

Shae: "Now I have a responsibility to do that. Just like you have a responsibility to come into work and do the things that you need to do. My responsibility is to lead you."

Ryan: Yes.

Shae: "That doesn't mean that I'm gonna, you know, do all these things for you, but I have to—I have to give you opportunities to excel and be the best versions of yourself." So I'm always working with them. Like, how can I empower you?

Ryan: Yes.

Shae: Because a lot of times, and this book talks about it, but you know, a lot of times in business, leaders can take their positions to empower themselves. Because you get power as you go up with leadership, right?

And I believe a biblical leader, a Kingdom-driven leader, is one that empowers people. And so that's really the kind of foundational aspect of how I view leadership. How I view my position as a CTO, as a co-founder of a company, as an entrepreneur, is we're doing—we're doing a massive thing.

Ryan: Yeah.

Shae: We're helping churches come online for the first time. We're helping leaders get their message out to the world. We're building something incredible. It may be just an app on your phone and a website, but the power of these apps and these websites is huge. There's a huge responsibility there. So we're doing something extremely incredible, and we need to make sure that we have the right foundation. And we're—and we need a team to do it.

Ryan: Yeah.

Shae: And so I can't do it alone. And so my job as an entrepreneur, as a leader, as a CTO, as a co-founder is to empower others, so that they can help us achieve that mission.

Shae: So I'm curious, you know, this topic of ambition. Right? You had talked about that earlier, how that's important. And so and we wanna operate from this place of godly ambition versus selfish ambition and, you know, all of that. I'm curious. Because, you know, I wrote this book called "Grace Over Grind, How Grace Will Take Your Business Where Grinding Can't."

Ryan: Yeah. Yeah.

Shae: And I wonder about your, like, your walk with God as it relates supreme from a leadership perspective or whatever, how you function in this place where it's like—like, we want to—we wanna go after it because God's given vision and we wanna go after it.

How do you find your balance in your place and walking this out in a technology company in a world of—I mean, you guys are in California, Silicon Valley world, you know, tech startups and all of those things, and kind of function in a way that's like, we wanna—we wanna stay in in pace with what God's doing. We wanna keep ourselves focused on what He's doing, and we also wanna—we also wanna drive. Like, has that been a process for you? Because are you kind of like a grind—were you kinda like a grinder by nature? You always wanna go fast, but God's had to kinda pull you back at times? Or, like, what's your walk been in terms of just, like, finding that place of a healthy ambition?

Ryan: Yeah. So I, you know, one of my gifts is service. And it's like, I'm also a runner, like a endurance runner. So—

Shae: Yes.

Ryan: I, like, I don't get tired. I don't like, you know, so far, I haven't experienced burnout. But there's been times in which, you know, that grind has grinded. Maybe not myself. Maybe, you know, I like to think of myself as kind of someone that can control their emotions. And when you do when you're grinding and grinding, sometimes you lose some grip of your emotions and you're not as well disciplined.

So yes, in some of that respect. But I wanna work. I wanna go, go, go. And it—I wouldn't say it's worn on me necessarily, but it wears on my relationships. And so because relationships need time to build.

And so, I was very fortunate to find my lovely wife, before Pray, but we got married actually our first year into Pray.

Shae: Okay.

Ryan: So, that's something that I've had to learn, not only how to be a husband during that time, but a husband with a with a new business.

Shae: Yes.

Ryan: How do I be there for her? And so that's something where God has been working on me. And she has been gracious.

Shae: Yay for your wife.

Ryan: Yeah. She's incredible. And so she's she's helped me kind of pull in the reins so that I'm not only being excellent at my job, but excellent at my other things.

Shae: Yeah.

Ryan: And a virtue. And for me, virtue is just excellence in certain areas. And so it's easy as an entrepreneur to be like, "I'm gonna be excellent at my job," but then we're very bad as a husband.

Shae: Right.

Ryan: And right now, like, we just got a—we just inherited a—my wife's old dog because her father unfortunately passed last year from COVID. And so we inherited back her 15-year-old dog. So now I'm a dog dad. So, I have to figure out how to be a big dog dad as well.

Shae: Yes.

Ryan: And so, right now, it's, God has been working on my life on and using my wife as a way to encourage me in this.

Shae: He'll do that.

Ryan: Yep, he will. He will, to be excellent at more than just your business.

Shae: Yes.

Ryan: An excellent husband. Excellent friend. And so, I'm working on these areas. I'm not a—I'm not an excellent friend right now. You know, I've been, so—

Shae: You're like, still working on that?

Ryan: Still working on that? Exactly—I gotta be an excellent husband. And so, God has been pulling in the reins so that I have the bandwidth to actually invest in other areas so I can pursue excellence in those areas because this has empowered us. And like I said, my gift is service. And I, like, I fortunately, I don't get tired. Like, I can go and go and go.

Shae: You're still super young.

Ryan: Yeah. That might play a part in it.

Shae: Oh, that's really good. So now okay. So I love that. So at this point, in this stage in your life, it's like, okay. So I have a lot of endurance on this business stuff, but there's other roles that I have in my life. So the Holy Spirit's helping me and working with me and and through my wife and others so that I can have just, like, be able to function in the goodness of all of the roles that you play.

So I'm curious on the business side from—I hear you loud and clear about how important service is. And so love—love means that you serve. And so from a leadership perspective, you take that approach, you know, with your team. How do I empower them? How do I serve them?

I'm curious to know, what other kind of key lessons the Holy Spirit has been working on with you in a workplace context?

Ryan: Yeah. I think that's, the way I see it is that empowering portion that I talked about.

Shae: Yeah.

Ryan: That's been something I've been really thinking about is partnering with the people that I get a chance to lead. And working with them, sometimes it's, you know, I gotta tailor-make a tailor-made solution to help them thrive. And so, really, this season of my life is about how do I empower my team? How do I empower them for greatness? How do I inspire them?

So, you know, the Spirit guides us and directs us, not just to be great at what we do, but to inspire others. Right?

Shae: Yeah.

Ryan: Our actions speak louder than words. And sometimes our ministry is not through our words, but through our actions. And I wanna be that representative. And so, God has been really working in me on how do I empower others and not be so much concerned about the power that I hold, but the empowerment that I can provide.

Shae: Yes.

Ryan: And so that's been the focus. And so I've been working with my team on structuring. I do these well, at Pray, we do something called two-weekers.

Shae: Two-weekers?

Ryan: Yeah. Two weeks.

Shae: Okay.

Ryan: So every two weeks, we do one-on-ones with our team.

Shae: Okay.

Ryan: And then with my leadership team, I will actually do one-on-ones once a week or twice a week. And so what we're developing is I'm like, "Alright. One thing we're big on here is data. Data really helps us learn."

Shae: Yes.

Ryan: "Right? Without it, we're relying on our memory. Memories, they're pretty big. And so, you know, one thing I'm working on is, alright, we're going to every week or every two weeks, whenever we meet, we're gonna take this one-on-one time and we're gonna go through some metrics that you define that you define. And this is for you. You guys are excellent. I actually know I don't need this to tell me whether I need to keep you or fire you or give you raises. This is not for me. I can do that without it."

And, and so this is completely you. Give me the metrics that you want to improve on or you want to actually, that you do informally keep track of. And let's go and let's make sure that we're tracking it. We go—we're gonna see how you're progressing. And then what that's gonna help us do is is gonna—it's gonna it's gonna show us problems or obstacles that are preventing you from being excellent in certain areas. And then my job is to help remove those. That's part of my job as a leader. I gotta go in. I gotta remove these obstacles, these challenges. Because you guys, you're going. You're going. I'm trying—I'm trying to make sure you don't have anything holding you back.

And so that's one thing that I've been working on this part. I wanna empower you. And one way to do it is by giving you information. And so, that is and we do that through data collection.

Also, you know, communication.

Shae: Yes.

Ryan: Another aspect I will say in line with that is, 360 communication. I don't know if you've heard of that term, but—

Shae: Oh, yeah. In my corporate days, 360 feedback from your peer—from all—you're giving feedback from all the people, peers, above you, people who work for you, all the whole—so that might be the concept you're referring to.

Ryan: Yeah. So instead of the feedback being given and received, it's more about information dissemination. And so you got to—your job is to communicate up and down and around. So it's not so much feedback on, "Hey, Shae. You know what? You're doing great in this area." And that is more of like, "Hey, I'm doing this." And making communication go 360.

Shae: And that's my goal. I see. I like that. Up and down and around.

Ryan: Yes.

Shae: And because it creates alignment. So those two things that I'm really working on is empowerment and 360 communication. Or, there's a book called "Extreme Ownership" by Jocko Willink. And that's where that's inspired from. It's like—

Shae: Yes.

Ryan: You own the information. If people are asking you questions, it's probably because you didn't give them enough information.

Shae: Right.

Ryan: And so communicate out. So empowerment and 360 communication, those are the two things that I'm working with the team on and yeah.

Shae: That's good. And I'm curious because when you guys started, I'm assuming you didn't have all of this team. You know, a lot of startups that starts with a very small number of people, and I suspect you might have been a software engineer or, you know, actually doing some development at that time. Is that how you started with PRAY.COM?

Ryan: Yeah. So, I have a background in back-end engineering, which is not, like, necessarily, like, the interfaces that you deal with on your your mobile application, but it's the things that empower them with the information they have.

Shae: They and so that was my skill set. So I needed to find a partner that could do mobile development. And so, we were able to find our first teammate. His name is Sean Merrick. He's actually gone on to start his own company. So he left their place. And so, yeah. I was doing engineering, you know, probably lots of hours. Let's just say it does not work best.

Shae: I bet.

Ryan: And so—And then, hiring, just a small number of people to help us bring the product to life.

Shae: Okay. So you so you had to—You had to walk into a leadership position pretty quickly in terms of leading—Managing leading others.

Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. I would I would say I was very fortunate because the person we hired was very, he was young but very self sufficient. So I didn't really have to apply too much leadership. It's more like guidance and and he was a partner in prime, you know, and he gave this application out.

But, yeah, I did. And then I was very fortunate. I, you know, I went to computer science. I got my degree in computer science, so I had friends that had computer science degrees. And so I started making calls. And, and fortunately, one of my good friends from college came and also joined us, I think, 2017, March or April. So yeah.

[The conversation continues discussing the company's collaborative leadership and its expansion beyond the four co-founders.]

[Ryan discusses how the leadership team functions in collaboration together, emphasizing humility as a foundation for working together.]

Ryan: I think that a lot of it starts with humbleness. So, right, that's a foundational principle in Christianity. And the Spirit guide and Jesus is—He—he displayed to us humility, right? The humility of the cross. And so he—he—he put aside all the glory, and he also humbled himself, so much so that he would be the sacrifice for our mistakes. And so that principle does not escape the leadership room.

Shae: Yeah.

Ryan: Or the arena. And I think it's foundational because when you've got these ambitious people, they usually—humbleness is not the first thing that drives ambition. Generally, like, it's ego, like, "I'm gonna be great. I'm gonna do these things."

Shae: Right.

Ryan: And so what the Spirit allows us to do with that humility is to furnish ambition in a way that leads to godly outcomes. So we get to partner together, to achieve something greater than one individual thing. So it's not about my ego or someone else's ego. So if someone comes in with ego, and we all do it at times, we have a great team that could—that has the humility to rather than escalate, deescalate so that we can come to a great outcome, right, together.

And so there's a book called "Nonviolent Communication."

Shae: Nonviolent Communication? I love it. That's a great title. Nonviolent Communication.

Ryan: And it is—it's written by a brother in Christ who, but it—he doesn't say anything about that. It does not bring in that. But you read it, you're like, "Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, Oh, I see. I see. I see you." But, he wrote this because there's in dealing with the—in the boardroom or in the leadership room, ego takes flight. And then what we can do is we can use language and we can use ways of inquiring to help deescalate so that we can come to the best outcome together.

And because usually when, you know, when the ego takes over and you're like, "We're gonna do it like this. I get what you're saying. Don't care. We're doing it"—does not—it does not end well. It usually does not end well. And we all have been there, whether it's business or just a normal life. Right?

Shae: Yes.

Ryan: Doing it. I'm doing it. Dang it. And so that's where I think that humility comes in and that's how we work with each other. Everyone and giving that feedback, you know. And sometimes you need to give it one-on-one. Sometimes you can do it publicly.

I think we have, transparency is a huge thing at Pray. And so sometimes we will publicly call each other out from these leadership meetings. And we're like, "No. Hey. You're—you're—you're operating from a—"

Steve loves the mission-team-self. It's a Navy SEAL kind of framework for thinking. And so sometimes we put ourselves before the mission or the team before the mission, and we have to operate from the mission. And sometimes the ego switches those orders, and we have to come in with humility and put the mission first.

And so we can call each other out with these frameworks that are, you know, that are more business and, you know, like, yeah. Mission teams are—"Hey. You're not being mission oriented." And so we have these ways in which we can call each other out. Hold each other accountable.

Shae: Right.

Ryan: To operate in a manner that's pleasing the Lord and also by the Spirit.

[Ryan shares what's been most surprising on his journey of Kingdom-driven business.]

Ryan: Yeah. You know, I look at that question, and I go, I've been so entrenched in the day to day that nothing surprises me. It's like, you know, you're in it. You're in it. But if I were to take a step back—

Shae: Yes.

Ryan: And I'd realize, what God has been able to accomplish in this tech space. This is not a Christian space.

Shae: Right.

Ryan: It's not necessarily friendly, but it's not—it's not against it. It's just—"Let's not talk about it. That's not for us." It's rather like a place of—of—I don't wanna say anti-Christian, but it wasn't necessary—we weren't well received when we came in.

But God has worked and entered, allowed us to kind of pave the way, especially in the venture capital space where we've been able to partner with some amazing people that people probably would have been like, "What? They're doing—they're working with a Christian company?" Right.

And and I think that how God has transformed that space where there's other Christian companies coming up. And that that wasn't something that happened. So how He's been able to open doors—

Shae: Yeah.

Ryan: Where we're able to serve the Christian community in a big way because technology has not been something that the church has been quickly to adopt.

Shae: Right? So true.

Ryan: And so and now, with the pandemic, we're coming out of it. Physical churches got locked, and they still got locked. And they're like, some businesses have recovered. Some types of businesses have recovered, but church attendance is down.

Shae: Yeah.

Ryan: And it's not that it's not that the people are less faithful. It's that they're—they're not going to church, physical churches. And so if I were to say something a little, like, you know, click baity, I guess, it's like, "The future is looking kinda churchless, but faithful."

And so, like, at this point, it's—it's changing. And so what we're—what we're really trying to do is we're working with these pastors and these churches. It's like, how can we serve you to help you continue your ministry? Because it's changed. The way you do ministry is changing. It's not a physical building and people come Sunday.

I'll use an analogy. I wanted to go see a movie. And I'm used to streaming it now. And—

Shae: Yeah.

Ryan: I have to go look at the times. I'm like, none of these times work for me. And, like, I don't—I can't go during that time. That's too late. And it's—that's not how I operate. I can stream now.

Shae: Yes.

Ryan: And I would say that church is taking on that kind of form is where people are like, well, going to a Sunday church, that's a—that's an event. That's like going to Disneyland. It's like half a day for a lot of people. It's not just a hour and a half day or a full day.

Shae: Right?

Ryan: You go to church, you go to lunch with the thing, and then maybe you're hanging out a little bit afterwards. And it's like a—you know, for parents, it's like a couple hour of preparation just to get out the door.

Shae: Yeah.

Ryan: It's a big event. And and that adds a lot of pressure and stress. And, really, what we're trying to do when—when we come to Sunday isn't just hear a sermon.

Shae: Right?

Ryan: We're trying to form community.

Shae: Right?

Shae: Yes. I was about to head there with you guys because you guys have that component because that part's really important.

Ryan: Yeah. And so that's—that's found—that's, like, that's what Christianity is about.

Shae: Yeah.

Ryan: That's, like, that is the church.

Shae: That is the church.

Ryan: And so it's—it's realizing that, okay, even though the physical attendance may be dwindling, but people are still faithful. They—they are still participating in Kingdom work and wanting to live out the gospel.

Shae: Yes.

Ryan: And we need to reach them in with—in new ways and form communities in new ways. And so we're really excited to partner with some great pastors and leaders that see this transformation happening, and are wanting to help us make sure that we can do—we can provide this service to the church.

And so we've been very fortunate where we built this huge Christian audience over the last 6 years. And we've been able to where people trust us. They come to us and they listen to great content. And now it's now we're—we're able to connect these leaders, these churches to this huge audience of Christian listeners and and watchers. We have video now. And help them form communities on PRAY.COM.

Shae: Yeah.

Ryan: And so that's what we're excited about is helping the church transform the way they do community where it's just not—it's not just offline, but it's also online.

Shae: Yeah. Yeah. And so what advice would you have? Maybe someone's listening here who is a tech entrepreneur, and and you'd said something about, you know, that some of the things you've seen the kind of the landscapes starting to be a bit more friendly from a venture capital perspective and all of that. What advice would you have for a tech, someone who's got a really great tech idea who believes they need, they need capital and their business happens to be focused on a faith-based audience. What would be your piece of advice for them?

Ryan: This is—you have to take it. You—you have to pray on it. But this is kind of, this is what I told Steve, when we started working together. This is something that I believe, you know, that I got from the Bible. I—you know, it wasn't like I had this profound moment. It was like, God told me this. But something that inspired me in building this. I said, "Hey, look, we're gonna need to do something great. We're gonna need to like build the temple like Solomon did. And some of those people that we work with may not be Christian because they're gonna be great at what they do, but they—they may not be Christian. But we're gonna achieve something great."

And so kind of taking the Solomon model of how you build your team and the talent you bring in, he didn't—it wasn't just, you know, all Jewish people that were building the temple. They're from all over, and they were the best at what they did. And so we're able to partner with some, we call it class talent. Some—some that are still with us, some that have gone on to do other great things. And it's been a pleasure.

And that's kind of the model that I have—have worked with on when it comes to building a team, is that kind of what I'd call the Solomon model model. It's finding the best talent that wants to help you achieve this mission. So the—the—the caveat to that is you have to be careful for mercenaries. You want missionaries, not mercenaries.

And so blending those two worlds where, "Hey, they may not be Christian, but are they down with your mission?"

Shae: Right.

Ryan: And so—

Shae: And that can work. Right?

Ryan: Our mission is grow faith and cultivate community.

Shae: It's a pretty good one.

Ryan: Yeah. I'm not that—Hey, great. But it's not like—It's not like when you read it, you're not like, "Oh, no. That sounds—I would never want to do that." Right? You're like, "Hey. I—I—I like this."

Shae: Right.

Ryan: "I can get down with that, and I can apply my talents to that."

Shae: Yeah.

Ryan: And so it really is taking the Solomon model. That would be my advice. You wanna do something great, you're gonna need great people with that are highly skilled in what they do.

Shae: Yes.

Ryan: And sometimes you can get—sometimes they're Christians, and sometimes they're not.

Shae: Yeah. And so to be open to what that—what that can look like. When you think about it, I mean, I think it's kinda awesome that you can have someone who's like, "I'm on board with this. I'm not really—I'm not sure I exactly believe what you believe, but I'm on board with it." But just in the nature of being a part of something and being immersed in the culture that, you know, that loves Jesus and wants to demonstrate, you know, his goodness that people—it could be some really cool seed planting, you know, in their lives as well without being, you know, overtly, you know, about it. But just being immersed in that—in that culture can be life changing.

Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. They can. So—Yeah. See, that probably not for everybody.

Shae: Yeah.

Ryan: But that's a model that I—that I—I would say came to mind when we started to pray.

Shae: Yeah. And so good stuff. We open it. Well, good stuff. So how do people get connected? Obviously, PRAY.COM is where they—where they go. But if—if anyone wants to connect with you further or like, what's the best place for people to go?

Ryan: You can connect with me on LinkedIn. So I'm on LinkedIn. I got the LinkedIn forward slash, you know, the purpose is my—my handle. And so I'm always all about tech and purpose. And, you can go to PRAY.COM forward slash meet-the-founders, and you can learn more about the founders and how we started it, if you're curious. Or you can just reach me at Ryan@pray.com.

Shae: Very good. You can go to PRAY.COM or you can also go on your phone and download the app, which they should be able to look up PRAY.COM and find the app. Yes?

Ryan: And just search Pray.

Shae: Yep. Just search on Pray.

Ryan: That's amazing. One...

Shae: And it'll come up. That's amazing. As someone who understands like domain names and tag and all that stuff, I mean, just like, this is amazing.

Ryan: Yeah. Just do a search on Pray and you'll find us. I love it.

Shae: Yeah. Fantastic. Thank you, Ryan, for joining me today. I enjoyed our chat.

Ryan: Oh, thank you, Shae. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me.