Skip to content Will Minnesota’s Turning Point Ever Come? Dec 30 · 43 min ...more
Will Minnesota’s Turning Point Ever Come?
December 30, 2025 · 43 min
Rampant daycare fraud by Minnesota’s Somali immigrant community has become one of the biggest stories in America. But with one scandal after another, why does Minnesota keep voting blue in one election after another? Scott Johnson of Minnesota’s Power Line Blog discusses the potential of unseating Tim Walz in next fall’s election. Harmeet Dhillon explains what the federal government is doing to pursue accountability for immigrant fraudsters, J6 gangsters, and illegal voters around the country. Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com! Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Series The Charlie Kirk Show December 30, 2025 · 43 min · The Charlie Kirk Show
Rampant daycare fraud by Minnesota’s Somali immigrant community has become one of the biggest stories in America. But with one scandal after another, why does Minnesota keep voting blue in one election after another? Scott Johnson of Minnesota’s Power Line Blog discusses the potential of unseating Tim Walz in next fall’s election. Harmeet Dhillon explains what the federal government is doing to pursue accountability for immigrant fraudsters, J6 gangsters, and illegal voters around the country. Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com! Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. ...more Show the full description Show less Rampant daycare fraud by Minnesota’s Somali immigrant community has become one of the biggest stories in America. But with one scandal after another, why does Minnesota keep voting blue in one election after another? Scott Johnson of Minnesota’s Power Line Blog discusses the potential of unseating Tim Walz in next fall’s election. Harmeet Dhillon explains what the federal government is doing to pursue accountability for immigrant fraudsters, J6 gangsters, and illegal voters around the country. Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com! Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Series The Charlie Kirk Show
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Charlie Kirk (born October 14, 1993) is an American conservative activist, author, and political commentator. He is the founder and president of Turning Point
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0:03 My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the0:15 most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you'll end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You gotta stop sending your0:27 kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start at Turning Point USA College chapter. Go start at Turning Point USA High School chapter. Go find out how your0:36 church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade. Most important decision I ever made in my life, and I encourage you to do the same. Here I am, Lord MuseMe.0:48 Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. The Charlie Kirk Show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold, the1:00 leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends, and viewers.1:09 Alright. Welcome back to the Charlie Kirk show. Hour 2 is underway. We are actually gonna be joined now by Scott Johnson from the PowerLine blog, 1 of the groups that has been investigating the1:21 Minnesota fraud within the Somali community specifically for a lot longer than the public is now aware of, at least the vast majority of them. So Scott, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show. Thanks for1:33 making the time. Blake is the 1 who turned me on to your reporting and your investigative work, so I'm gonna let him, take the lead here because what you've been doing needs to1:45 more people need to know about it, Scott.
1:47 Hey, Scott. Yeah. Welcome to the the show. I I'm a big fan of PowerLine. You guys are I think you guys have literally been blogging before they actually came up with the word blog, which is quite
1:59 I think you were in, like, the original Time Magazine article about it and all that. Big fan of you guys. And I what I like about what you guys have really pointed out, you've had a lot of posts on this explosion of
2:10 interest in the Somali story. And what you've pointed out is this is not it's not truly a new story. Even Nick Shirley, he's not he's not even the first person to go around
2:22 knocking on the doors of daycares. And so I thought we could set this up by you could just explain a little bit about what you know as a conservative on the ground in Minnesota,
2:34 what the real state of affairs is, and what is the best thing that could happen if we want to see accountability for this? And I guess I must be obvious, like useful policy developments at
2:46 the national level as a result of this scandal.
2:49 Well, that's a big question. The last time you had me on, Blake, it was to talk in the aftermath of the controversy that Chris Rufo had
3:01 raised with a city journal column this past November. And it created a huge impact all around the country because President Trump attended to that matter. And all
3:13 of a sudden, were calls for investigation coming from all over the country directed at the United States Attorney for Minnesota and the local FBI office here. But in
3:25 fact, the case that Rufo wrote about, the fraud cases that have been drawn to his attention are 4 years old. They're gonna be,
3:37 let's see, since 20 21, they've been under investigation by the FBI. There have been at least 50 convictions in those cases. There are about 28 more maybe to go.
3:49 And this round of controversy is created by this incredible video that Nick Shirley created, knocking on doors around the Twin Cities to
4:01 demonstrate the level of fraud in 1 aspect of these cases that is also under investigation and also being charged. And that's the thing I would like
4:13 your audience to know more than anything else is that these matters are under investigation by the FBI and they are being prosecuted by the United States Attorney for the District of
4:24 Minnesota. Whatever credit you give to me for covering these cases comes from the fact that I have followed, I've attended the press conferences called by the US attorney here, and I've
4:36 attended the trials held in these cases here. And this is all, from my perspective, old news. Now, what's the name of the gentleman you were gonna have this
4:48 afternoon?
4:48 Nick Shirley.
4:50 Nick Shirley. You know, I'm still just inundated with questions about this, but Shirley's video focuses on 1 aspect of the frauds that are being investigated here, the
5:01 daycare frauds. And he highlights in the video an office in the city of St. Paul called the Briggs Midway Building that had 22 offices that were
5:13 devoted to some aspect of these frauds. And the funny thing is that office building was raided in July. And at the
5:25 time I posted 1 of the search warrants that was executed in July on PowerLine. And then in September, several of those cases out of the Griggs Midway building were charged. Now
5:37 the first charge cases involve another Medicaid fraud. Minnesota Medicaid has 14 waiver programs and
5:48 daycare has been a long standing problem. But the first charge cases that have come out of the Griggs Midway building in St. Paul are in housing stabilization
6:00 services, which seems to be a fraud of the kind that Nick Shirley is exposing in this video that has gone viral. So the 1 thing I would like your audience to know is that
6:12 this matter, to use President Trump's term, is being attended to. The FBI is investigating it, and the cases are being charged. There are more that will be charged this week.
6:24 If there's a problem, it's that the United States Attorney's Office for Minnesota is not huge. There might be 5 or 6 prosecutors working on these cases and a team of
6:35 FBI agents. If anything, it's time to send in reinforcements, but the matter, this is not news. It does not need to be investigated in the sense that a case needs to be open. It is under
6:47 investigation and the cases are being charged.
6:50 Yeah. It's it's interesting. I wanna read a a line from your post this morning. It says before Nick Shirley and after, and you say, Joe Thompson, the US attorney for Minnesota, has all but shouted the point from the
7:01 rooftop, Minnesota is drowning in fraud. To put it another way, Thompson was shouting, wake up. The volume of fraud is beyond the capacity of his office to
7:13 remedy by prosecution alone. And you you asked him, okay. Are there more people you could charge, and are do they match basically the the appearance of the
7:25 cases we've seen so far? In other words, are there more Somali fraud cases that he's just been unable to get to? And he told you, yes. So we have the evidence. We have the cases. It it
7:37 seems that we literally just have a case where we need more prosecutors and more manpower to to bring the paperwork charges. Is that the situation as I do I understand it correctly?
7:47 You know, to go back to the beginning, which which is the the searches and indictments that were handed up in the year 20 22 out of the investigation that began in 20 21, we're in
7:58 this feeding our future fraud that involved 300000000 dollars The original indictments, there was a 40 a set of 47 indictments that were handed up by the grand jury in September
8:10 20 22. And those those cases have multiplied. They're up to 70 some now. And that's how these subsequent frauds were
8:21 discovered is that Joe Thompson and the FBI, they followed the money coming coming out of out of Medicaid to end this Feeding Our Future.
8:34 As they followed the money, they found some of the same cast of characters. The defendants in the Feeding Our Future case are basically a white woman who set up this Feeding Our Future
8:45 nonprofit and recruited a Somali cast of characters to run these fraudulent programs around the state. So so that that's how it happened is that this thing has been
8:57 under under investigation for 4 years.
9:00 I wanted to you've watched Minnesota politics for a long time, and it's always struck me as a state. It seems like it should be a purple or red state by now, like it should follow the arc of Wisconsin, Ohio,
9:12 Michigan, Pennsylvania, move a bit to the right. Yet it's always been this white whale. It never seems to happen even when it seems like this a scandal like this should be a huge feeding frenzy for a state Republican.
9:23 And you guys have good local conservative leaning investigators. Alpha News, you guys. What's going on? Why does Minnesota never seem to reach that turning point that it seems like it should?
9:35 Well, I hate to point the finger at the Somali community again, but the problem is Hennepin County, which is the county in which Minneapolis sits. And the Democratic majority there is so
9:47 huge, including a large component of Somali voters, that it makes up for the Democrats weakness in rural Minnesota and they do lose out state. Minnesota has shifted. It is
9:59 a purple state in the sense that rural counties are basically Republican and St. Paul and Minneapolis are Democrats. We need to do a little bit better in the cities. It's been a long time since a Republican won a
10:10 statewide election here. If it doesn't happen, in 20 26, we've really got a problem.
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11:27 You know, it's interesting. I'm not exactly sure what the precise number of Somali voters are now in Hennepin County, but it's massive. We're talking at least over 100000. Some have said 200000.
11:39 So that's a huge voting block. I don't know what the margin of defeat for Trump was in Minnesota, Blake, if you've got that handy, but it's I'd be surprised if it was much higher
11:51 than 200000, but we'll check. The, you know, you mentioned this voting bloc and Nick Shirley, who we've been talking about, who's actually, he's had to reschedule with us, he'll be on tomorrow, mentions
12:03 this exact thing, 118.
12:04 Governor Tim Walls is saying that you and others that are out there trying to expose this, you know, you're doing it because you're white supremacists. What is your response to him?
12:13 Yeah. Tim wants votes. There are entire apartment complex that where white people have been pushed out of these apartment complexes because Somalians have taken over in their inside of these towns like Minneapolis where
12:24 they can go and go get votes from these people. And if you have 100000 people that will vote for you because you're gonna enable and let this stuff happen and because you're gonna call white person racist for calling out
12:34 facts, this is what's gonna happen to a state like Minnesota. Minnesotans, they're saying Minnesota nice, but they are very upset. And I totally understand why they're upset because they don't have a governor who's
12:44 actually working for them. They're he's actually working against them.
12:47 I I guess I what I'm wondering I just checked, and Trump lost president Trump lost Minnesota by about 1 and a half points in 20 16. He lost by more in 20 20. And in 20
12:59 24, he lost by 4 points. So it actually has shifted a little bit bluer over the past 8 years. Is that just a demographic effect, or do you think is there something is there something to
13:11 that you'll always hear from outside Minnesota? People will say it's that Scandinavian psychology. So I guess I'd ask what you think of that. And also, just in general, I know you say it's
13:23 it's not a new story there, but it is getting a lot of attention. Is this the sort of thing people are talking about all the time there? Is it taking over discourse in the state in a way it didn't before?
13:33 I think the point that Nick Shirley made in the video that you played is absolutely right. It's hard to convey the level of interest on the 1 hand and anger on the other that this story generates. You know, people feel
13:44 like they're being treated as chumps, and they're really mad about it. And I can't think of a comparable issue of public affairs in
13:56 the past 10 years in Minnesota that has generated this level of interest. It's had a huge impact. President Trump had an impact in 20 16. I
14:08 think 1 effect he had was turning suburbs around in Hennepin County around the Twin Cities lure, you know, because the suburban voters don't like his style or whatever.
14:20 I really haven't thought about the question that you're raising right now and hesitate to say more about the political impact and so on. But I do think that we
14:32 need a serious Republican candidate at the top of the ticket in 20 26. We had a weak Republican gubernatorial candidate in 20 22. It brought
14:44 down competitive candidates under him. If we have several good candidates running for the Republican gubernatorial nomination in 20 26, and if 1 of them gets the nomination and is
14:55 endorsed, I think we'll win.
14:58 Yeah. We can hope, man. We can hope.
15:00 Just just so we're just just so we're clear, the raw vote the raw vote difference in 20 24 in Minnesota was 138100 votes. So Donald
15:12 Trump received 1.5, essentially Harris received 1.65. So it a 138000 raw votes that Minnesota was won by. And if you think the Somali community,
15:24 which has been largely imported since the late 90s, I mean, that's let's say it's over 200000. I mean, there's your
15:31 It's about 80000. So it's not quite the difference.
15:33 I've heard larger numbers. Do we know the actual numbers here?
15:39 I would say no. Can get official numbers would be something like, the 80000 that you're using, but I think it's well over 100000. It is a fair number.
15:52 They're not entirely in Minneapolis, but they're concentrated in, you know, it used to be called Little Mogadishu. That's the fifth district, Hennepin County and
16:04 Minneapolis in the inner ring suburb. It's Ilhan Omar's district.
16:08 So Yeah.
16:09 It's not so little anymore.
16:11 When the Mogadishu has gotten bigger.
16:15 It's not
16:16 just But
16:17 it's not just Minnesota, by the way. This is in Ohio. There's now reports of over 500 childcare facilities in the state of Washington run by Somalis. So,
16:29 we'll see how far the rabbit hole goes down. This is a very interesting conversation. Scott Johnson has been with PowerLine Blog has been investigating the, I guess, fraud situation,
16:41 different aspects of it in Minnesota. Scott, does this go back 20 years, 25 years for you? How long have you been doing your research and investigations?
16:51 Well, we started PowerLine over Memorial Day weekend, 2002, I'm trying to think the first I really got seriously interested
17:03 in in this subject. Covered that Minnesota was a fount of folks supporting Al Shabaab. And in 20
17:14 16, there was a terrorism trial here. There were 9 charged Somali Minnesotans who were seeking to join ISIS. 6 of them pleaded
17:26 guilty. 3 of them went to trial in 20 16. I covered that trial. These were young charismatic men who on the surface were apparently assimilated. They were
17:38 well spoken. They were taking advantage of opportunities. They were educated. They were taking advantage of every employment and educational opportunity I could think of. So, you
17:50 know, I was exposed to some of them as they came through the courtroom, but the 3 defendants I saw, 1 of them testified and 1 of the 9 turned in former and wore a wire. So you got to hear
18:02 what these guys really thought of us. And it was really shocking how much hatred they had for the United States.
18:11 Wow.
18:11 And in the course of that trial, I saw that 1 of the programs they were taking advantage of was student loans. And 1 of the defendants pulled out 500 dollars on a debit
18:23 card from his student loan to finance his trip to Turkey to try to get to ISIS. And these folks were apprehended before they left the United States. But
18:35 it was shocking to me how cognizant they were of the seams and the system that they could take advantage of and so on.
18:44 Yeah, it's really revealing in 1 of the places they investigated, the way it had all 3 it was like it had a transportation company, and it had, like, a home a Medicaid company and a day
18:56 care. They're aware of where you can go to get the money. And as you said, it's nice that you brought up the terrorism nexus of this. In 20 19, I've got it right in front of me, Fox 9
19:07 out of Minneapolis, Saint Paul, they investigated this this story, and it there was literally reports. This was noted that millions of dollars was being flown out of
19:19 the Minneapolis airport in suitcases, in cash. They just had cash stuffed in suitcases, and they're flying it to Somalia. It's beyond a doubt. A lot of that probably ended up with extremists,
19:31 al Shabaab terrorists. And it says in that article that it's well known that starting a daycare is a way to print money in this community. 20 19. It's just Well,
19:43 then you're reading story.
19:45 Yeah.
19:45 And then I think the cash the cash being flown out has never been substantiated, but that's where we came in was with daycare fraud. I wrote a column for City Journal called Mobidishu, Minnesota, I
19:57 think in 20 18 that referred to the issue of daycare fraud and and the story about cash being flown to Somalia. I'm not so sure that that part of it is true, but it certainly has been a concern
20:09 for a substantial period of time.
20:11 Well, so my question then, Scott, goes to the politicians that have been complicit in this, right? In 20 23, Governor Walt said that, you know, childcare providers need a raise, which basically, you know, was,
20:23 you know, a tip of the cap to, his his constituents, in the Somali community, I gotta believe. What are we looking at, complicity within the
20:34 elected class in Minnesota? Can we are you going to be pursuing that investigation? What can we expect in terms of Tim Walz and other officials in the state?
20:44 I don't think he, Tim Walz, and I don't think Attorney General Keith Ellison, I don't think either 1 of them has either sat for an interview regarding what they knew and when on this massive public
20:55 programs fraud. And it would be nice if, you know, the big media outlets here, the Minneapolis Star Tribune, now known as the Minnesota Star Tribune, would ask for interviews and
21:07 tell us what the response is that they get. Will either of these guys sit for an interview? During the second of these Feeding Our Future trials earlier this year, I sent sets of questions. I asked for
21:19 interviews of both Walls and Ellison to ask those questions. And I sent them written questions, on the subject of what they knew and when. Keith Ellison, the attorney general of the state is a guy who
21:31 brags about how he can spot, a fraud, when he's talking about president Trump. So I was curious about when he spotted the fraud that took place under his auspices here over the last
21:43 6 years. It's unbelievable. You know, these guys have specialized in either looking the other way or facilitating what
21:55 we've seen over the past several cases.
21:58 We're of time here, Scott, but thank you so much. Thank you so much for your work. Everyone check out PowerLine Block if you want unlimited Minnesota content. It's a great content producing state for our movement. Thank
22:09 you again, Scott.
22:10 Thanks for
22:10 having me, Christmas,
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23:15 Very excited about our next guest. That is Harmeet Dillon, the great Harmeet Dillon, who is the assistant attorney general for the civil rights division at the Department of Justice. Harmeet, welcome,
23:27 back to the show. I am very excited to speak with you. You had a a very lively, weekend, holiday break, and you're you're trying to explain things. I I
23:39 I I found I was very sympathetic to where you're at because I have, you know, in the last couple of months, received my own fair amount of attention from
23:51 conservative influencers that don't seem to understand that we have a a legal system that has rules, it has timelines. And you were being or perhaps you just observed some of the
24:03 questions that were circulating about this post January 6 prosecution. People want accountability for some of the stuff that happened. Obviously, we share those those desires. And you just basically said,
24:15 am I gonna have to put down my knitting and explain the statute of limitations to you people? So the floor is yours. What sparked this, and what do you want the the, the country, the the conservative movement to know?
24:25 Well, thank you for having me, and thank you for asking. It is certainly very frustrating to those about the Department of Justice where we are doing so much. We are winning so many cases at the Supreme Court. We are
24:37 putting wins on the board. And Attorney General Pam Bondi and the rest of us keep getting criticized for not having arrests, like arrests our entertainment or breading circuses. When in fact, there are arrests and
24:49 there is a very lively activity from a very committed and I think the most conservative department at the US that we've ever had. And I don't think it's just people asking questions. What I was responding to was what
25:00 looked to me like an organized campaign of stupid commentary that falsely claimed that because January sixth is coming up, there's a 5 year statute of limitations that
25:12 expires on January sixth, 20 25. And if the attorney general and the DOJ hasn't indicted people by that time, then that statute of limitations has won. And I think it is paid. I think
25:24 I see certainly those types of influencers on X who are monetized repeating this propaganda almost word for word. And I was frustrated by it. I saw some pushback. It wasn't
25:36 enough pushback. And so I decided to get out there and spew some facts. Namely, there is no statute of limitations that runs on that day. There are various statutes that are going to run on a rolling
25:47 basis and some haven't even expired. There's a continuing conspiracy, which I think you could make the case for in some circumstances. The statute of limitations doesn't begin to run, I. E.
25:59 Start, until that conspiracy and those overreact in furtherance of the conspiracy end. And so I put some facts out there. And I also expressed my frustration that so called conservative influencers are
26:11 clearly getting paid to spread clickbait disinformation, and it's really annoying to me, and I wish people would get a life where they used to form themselves to try to be honest instead of just trying to make money
26:22 off of the desperation of a less informed populace.
26:28 Well, I think that's really important. And we have your tweet here. You said, stuff happens January sixth, that date is irrelevant. January sixth committee and Congress forms in the summer. This is a relevant date. So
26:39 statute of limitations mid 20 26 potentially. Jack Smith appointed over a year later. So there's another date. Democrats in congress and those in the states colluding with Biden White House hide their behavior, some of
26:50 which still hasn't come to light. Statute runs on this 5 years after their concealed behavior is known to the government. This means means the statute, could run-in the next administration. And then
27:02 you you have a a a note of encouragement to stop posting clickbait. I think that's all fair. I actually I actually was not booking you, on this topic, Harmit. I we we wanted to have you
27:13 on because the Minnesota, topic, and we've been covering that, throughout the show today. I mean, it was, it was the number 1 topic. Elon's posting about it.
27:25 So I I appreciate the statute of limitations. I think you're you're getting to a point that the base wants accountability. They want results, and it's not just about the DOJ. It's not just about Pam Bondi. You guys are
27:37 doing great work at the Department of Justice in a lot of different ways, and I know, because I've spoken with people, there's a lot coming down the pike. So we can put a pin in that if you'd like. But there's a lot
27:47 coming down the pike. Could you at least assure our audience that you guys are working on stuff that they're going to like?
27:52 Absolutely, but let me continue the theme here of a false narrative, which is that no one's going to go to jail. We aren't doing anything. We haven't done anything. Where are the arrest? This is nonsense because the
28:03 attorney general and under the DOJ, we have actually indicted 99 people so far, we're just getting started, in the Minnesota Somali fraud ring. So far
28:15 there are over 60 convictions and pleas, hundreds of millions of dollars in gold and restitution and additional collateral crimes including attempted
28:26 bribery by 1 of these fraudsters trying to deliver 120000 dollars tax for yours home and things like that. And so, we're also uncovering, there was news of similar types of
28:38 fraud happening in Ohio and other places where the Somali community is because apparently this is a type of fraud that they're talking amongst themselves. And it isn't just Somali
28:50 fraud, there's other fraud. I firmly believe that there's been state organized fraud, in a way in California where Victor Davis Hanson talked about this recently on his podcast where he's talking about
29:03 sort of inflated reimbursement requests for ambulances from the state and then the state's pockets the difference and all kinds of crazy stuff like this, Medicaid
29:14 fraud, there's autism fraud and on and on and on. So, we are so dedicated to this. There are career prosecutors, it's not a political thing. This is the type of thing that they do day in and
29:26 day out. And the attorney general is so dedicated to it. I spoke to her about it yesterday to not getting enough credit and it's not reasonable. And so I just want people to understand that when they say,
29:38 where are the arrests? There's no arrests. You're just sounding dumb because if you cracked open a browser and did a little bit of research, you would find that there have been many arrests, many convictions,
29:50 many indictments and ongoing investigations here. So I'm proud of the DOJ and the work that we're doing and it would really make it easier for us to do our job when we didn't have to spend time combating
30:02 misinformation from the public online, some of which is frankly malicious and soft serve.
30:08 Yeah and I want to take a minute, just a moment here to pause. You mentioned Victor Davis Hanson, he announced on his show, so we just want everybody to pray for VDH, great American, been on this show many times. He
30:20 says, I'm having a major operation and I've been presented with a serious problem, but I'm going to do all I can to solve it and that's all I can do and trust in the power of prayer and faith and in a wonderful surgeon.
30:32 So it sounds like he's going into surgery with a serious issue. I saw you tweeting about that and retweeting so I wanted to pause right there. We love VDH, he's a good American, great American
30:44 and so we wish him all the best. Please do pray for him. We need guys like VDH out there, a voice of stability and just wisdom, history,
30:56 his context for just about every problem we face is incredible. So just wanted to pause and say that. So 1 of the issues that you see if you go online, and again, this is sort of the theme of of our conversation
31:08 here, Harmy, is people wanna see Tim Waltz, Keith Ellison. They wanna see these guys indicted, arrested for their complicity or look turning the other,
31:20 way when they knew the fraud was happening. There's a in the previous segment, Blake mentioned a Fox 9 article from 20 19 where this sort of daycare fraud was,
31:31 publicized first and they were even alleging that some of the money was getting to, back to al Shabaab even in 20 19. Then we had the city journal, reporting from Christopher Ruffo that
31:43 basically alleged the same. What would it take to indict a sitting governor? I mean, I know that you have an official role and there's only so much you can say, so please by all means, be careful, but just
31:55 legally speaking, I mean, we haven't really seen anything like that, at least in living memory.
32:00 Well, well, we have. I mean, Rod Blagojevich was, of course, indicted. He's now correct, governor. In fact, many Illinois governors have been indicted and convicted of crimes and and that, you know, senators have
32:12 as well. Sitting? It does happen. Yeah. I mean, are we you know, I don't know if he was sitting at the time, but he was convicted for behavior that he that he allegedly engaged in while he was
32:24 a sitting governor. And so, you it does take time to put convictions together. So let me tell you how and again, this is not my area of expertise. I'm civil rights chief. I do have some criminal
32:35 some jurisdiction involving hate crimes and stuff, but there's a concept in the DOJ and also in state prosecutions called public correction. And the prosecutors can specialize in public correction cases.
32:48 And they're difficult cases to bring and they typically involve informant or somebody who has been engaging in criminal behavior themselves, like he bribes to a sitting official and then perhaps agree to wear a wire
32:59 or otherwise there's sufficient evidence because they plead guilty and there's a grand jury and then there's enough evidence to go in and get a wiretap and or financial records and then go trace the
33:11 money and build an ironclad case. And I think that while I know there's a thirst, kind of a revenge like thirst for convictions and prosecutions. What we don't want is to have a
33:23 situation like where what happened to president Trump? You know, trumped up cases, concocted cases, BS cases. So you have to actually do the homework, put that ironclad case together
33:35 because you know what the other side is going to say. They're going to say that it's politicized, that's setting 100 percent of cases involving public figures. This is political. This is not a real case. What we're
33:45 seeing that right now, that kind of commentary from Leticia Jennings and some others that are in the crosshairs of prosecution. So I think that's what is happening here. So itShow more
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Charlie Kirk
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