Skip to content Spiritual Gifts for Pastors | The BRAVE Way Podcast EP. 13 Feb 19 · 31 min ...more
Spiritual Gifts for Pastors | The BRAVE Way Podcast EP. 13
February 19, 2025 · 31 min
Explore the variety of gifts entrusted to pastors and why understanding your gifting is vital.
Series The BRAVE Way Podcast February 19, 2025 · 31 min · The BRAVE Way Podcast
Explore the variety of gifts entrusted to pastors and why understanding your gifting is vital. ...more Show the full description Show less Explore the variety of gifts entrusted to pastors and why understanding your gifting is vital.
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Pastor Jeff Schwarzentraub serves as president of Pastor Jeff Ministries, a national and global ministry designed to equip believers and challenge them to take
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Understanding Your Spiritual Gifts 0:00 As I've grown in my understanding of how the Lord has gifted me, he's shown me that, you know, the the biggest thing you can do is to be in the word, follow what the Holy Spirit is calling you to do through the word,0:12 and then just be obedient. It's that simple. But the way in which I'm wired is different than some other pastors are wired, for better, for worse. It's just who I am, and the more I stay in line with myself and don't try0:23 to be somebody else, you know, because we all have people we look up to, like, man, that person's a really gifted pastor, that person's really gifted in that, that person's a gifted event. I need to be like that. You0:31 don't need to be like anybody else. You need to be the fullest, version of who the holy spirit made you to be and grow in your gifting and be obedient to that.0:49 Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Bravely podcast. I'm Brian Vaughn. And with me, as always, pastor Jeff. We're so thankful for the time that we have with you. Fun.0:58 We're gonna have fun today. I know we are.1:00 We are. And this is another episode where you don't quite know what all I'm gonna be asking, and I like keeping you on your toes. It's not quite like a Sunday message. This is more of a, let's get Jeff the way that Jeff1:12 is.1:12 Yeah. I'm I'm always curious when we start talking. Okay.1:15 What's he come up with this time? Well, this one's actually really interesting because we were talking on the phone, and this is how I got to the topic that we're gonna talk about today. So we started talking about1:25 different pastors and the giftings that the Lord has given them. And I just felt like, man, I wonder how many people know about the different gifts that the Lord has presented to pastors Mhmm.1:37 And what type of pastors there actually are. So I would love for you to dive in just a little bit. We don't need to go super deep right off the bat, but what type of giftings are pastors given? And1:49 talk talk about some of those things.1:51 Yeah. Well, in Ephesians chapter 4, it talks about that God gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, some pastors, teachers to equip God's saints for the work of ministry. And, you know,2:01 some couple pastor, teacher together, some take it as pastor, teacher as 2 different gifts. Yeah. We talk about the 5 fold ministry. Let me be clear from the beginning. I believe the true apostles2:13 and true prophets have ceased in the sense of God spoke to me. I told you. Therefore, it's binding. I I think that stuff's nonsense. I think it, you know, new apostolic reformation, all that2:25 stuff. I'm not into that. I don't think it's right. I don't think God has called a person to speak authoritatively on him. I believe we have the word. I believe the word is authoritative. I'm not an authority on the2:36 word. The word's an authority over me. I I believe all that. So when I talk about the giftings, I think there are different giftings. I still think there's the apostolic gifting of being sent from the Lord to start2:47 ministries where there weren't. I still think there's a prophetic gifting to be able to preach in such a way where you're saying, thus saith the Lord, and this is what you must do. Mhmm. For sure, there's an evangelistic2:56 gifting of being able to share the gospel and, you know, do it in such a compelling way to draw people to repentance and faith. And, by the way, all of us are called to share the gospel. That's right. Paul tells Timothy3:07 to do the work of an evangelist. Then there's the the pastor teacher gift, which is really equipping the saints in such a way of training them, teaching them the word, feeding them the word, coming alongside of them, and3:17 shepherding them. And whether that's 2 different giftings or 1 and the same, the pastor teacher gift is really teaching the flock, and shepherding the flock, and walking with the flock. And so, what we were talking about3:27 is how that gifting can play out in different measures for different pastors. Right. Based upon the Holy Spirit's the 1 who gives gifts. The Holy Spirit gives the measure of gifts, and there's different giftings that3:38 pastors have, I believe, that helps them to direct their flock the way in which the lord's guiding them.3:45 Yeah. And and let me say this real quick. This is kind of a side question, and then we'll get back to it. But tell me why it would be important to know those different giftings.3:57 So so so to expand on that a little bit further, if I'm a guy that thinks that I might be a pastor, but I'm not like pastor Jeff, is there a place for me there?4:07 Well, I think that's the beauty of what I'm talking about Yeah. Is the fact that, you know, when I was traveling around, I I was sharing the gospel. I mean, from the time I got saved, I had a passion to share the gospel4:16 with lost people. Just did. And that's what the Lord continued to build in me. And and so as I continued to do that, it it just became over. I can't not do that. And and as a called pastor, I I tell you this, I I4:28 never felt like I could fit into a pulpit because, for several reasons. 1 is I felt like too many churches were just evangelistic stations, and I didn't feel like that's what the church4:40 should be. But, I also felt like I don't just want to teach the sheep, the Word of God with the same group of sheep that are never going to be on mission. I want to see people go out missionally. So, as I've4:51 grown in my understanding of how the Lord has gifted me, he's shown me that, you know, the the biggest thing you can do is to be in the word, follow what the holy spirit is calling you to do through the word, and5:03 then just be obedient. It it's that simple. But the way in which I'm wired is different than some other pastors are wired, for better, for worse. It's just who I am. And the more I stay in line with myself and don't try5:14 to be somebody else, you know, because we all have people we look up to, like, man, that person's a really gifted pastor. That person's really gifted in that. That person's a gifted event. I need to be like that. You5:22 don't need to be like anybody else. You need to be the fullest, version of who the Holy Spirit made you to be and grow in your gifting and be obedient to them. To me, it's like, how do I equip evangelists to go5:34 out and do that? But as as I've grown, even after being here, I would say, I don't think that's my first and foremost gift. Even if I I look back, I found some notes when I went to Dallas Seminary when I was in a a small5:45 group there. It was about 2 19 98. K. And we took this spiritual gift inventory, and and my spiritual gift inventory then, now, every single time I take it off the charts, by far, is apostolically gifted.The Mission and Vision of Brave Church 5:57 Okay.5:57 And the way that that's defined is going where Christ is not known, and building ministry, from scratch, building things up so that, there can be new direction, new ways of doing that.6:09 And when I think about that, I'm like, that's exactly how I think. That's exactly who I am. Prophetic gifting is I'm way more into, this is what the Bible says, so therefore, this is who God is.6:21 Therefore, go do it. No excuses. Yeah. That's a prophetic gifting. Yep. And so, I find myself more apostolic and prophetically gifted than I do pastor teacher gifted. Although, I'm teaching on Sunday. I'm pastoring our6:32 flock. I'm do so to call me a senior pastor, I think, is fine, but my bleed would be towards, let's go take the hill. Let's go take ground. Let's go win more people to Christ. Let's get more campuses. Let's,6:44 let's, let's have a massive impact over our whole city. So, even as I pastor, as our church has grown, there's never gonna be a time, there never has been a time where we kind of pat ourselves on the back and6:56 say, Well, aren't you grateful that we have this many more people coming? Because, Oh, absolutely, I am. Yeah. But until every person in Denver is walking with Christ, I'm not done. Until every person in America is7:05 walking with Christ, I'm not done. And I'm never gonna stop pushing the envelope and pushing people out and sending people on mission and do that. And until people around the world are 1 to Christ, we're not done. And7:16 the missional aspect of who I am and going where Christ is not known is huge. 1 of the reasons that we're partnering with, Paul Simpson in South Africa is he's building churches all all up the eastern coast of Africa7:27 into the Middle East in places we'll never get with nationals that are there, fires up my soul. Like, how can we not partner with that? How can we not go make that happen? Yeah. And so so for me, that's why when7:39 people hear me preach, it's not just a Jeff's teaching us the Bible. He's teaching us the Greek word. He's teaching us what the Greek word means, and now I know the Bible better, and I have a higher view of scripture.7:49 And I listen to several teachers, and that's how they're gifted. I think John MacArthur's gifted that way. I think he's a great Bible teacher, and I think he's been faithful for years and years and years and years7:59 teaching God's word verse by verse, word by word, unpacking it. So I I can preach on 1 verse. I've done it many, many times. I think John MacArthur could preach on 1 verse for 8 weeks and, unpack, you know,8:11 more and more and more. I love that. Yeah. That's not who I am. Yep. And I think if I were to say, hey, I gotta be like John MacArthur. I can't do that. I think some guys are really gifted in the pulpit, which is their8:22 heart for the people, and they love the people. I love our people. There's no question. I love our people. But they they just bleed their heart, and they wanna walk alongside. They wanna be there for every single8:30 encounter and every single event and do all that stuff. And, that's not my number 1 bleed. My number 1 bleed is, okay. Let's get you on mission. Yeah. You know, let's let's go do this. And so I think if you know if8:41 you're just true to who God made you and you're faithful to that Yeah. God uses it.8:46 Yeah. And I think that's a huge blessing. Funny enough, I'm gonna go to another story that we had on the phone. But you you talked to me about a phone call that you had with Shawn Johnson when you first moved to Denver,8:56 Colorado. And I I I think this is applicable to what we're talking about right now. But when you and Shawn talked, how did you know Denver was the right place for you?9:06 Well, Pastor Sean is pastor of Red Rocks Church, 1 of the biggest churches here in Denver. At the time that I talked to him, I think there were about a thousand people. Mhmm. We had already moved to Denver Yep. Or were9:15 we either moved to Denver or we'd already made the decision to come to Denver. We were commuting back and forth, I think, at the time. And every pastor I talked to, because I started calling pastors saying, hey. What do9:24 you know about the community? Where should we be? I didn't know anything. We're driving up and down I 25. I didn't know if the Lord was gonna have us plant in the north, south, east, west. I didn't know anything. Yep.9:32 Just trying to hear the Lord. And I remember I talked to so many pastors, and every single 1 of them was like, oh, if you think you're coming to Denver and plant a church, it's never gonna work. 95 percent of church9:42 plants here fail. And they would say, the only reason you're coming is because you like the mountains. And I was like, well, you're wrong on that too. So, anyway, so we we'd have all these conversations, but I remember9:51 when I talked to pastor Sean Johnson of Red Rocks, and he was super encouraging. He also came from Illinois. I was from Peoria. He was from Rockford. He doesn't remember the conversation because I just met him again the10:01 other day. And, I said, you were the 1 guy I talked to that said, put the church anywhere. You can't plant enough good churches in Denver. A church is needed here. Yeah. And I I love that. He's a very kingdom minded guy.10:12 And I would say the same thing. I would totally say the same thing. Like, anywhere you wanna go, that's And I I tell church planters all the time. I said, do you know where the most difficult place to plant a church is10:22 in America? And most of them, like, I don't know. Maybe, you know, northwest, maybe the east coast. I'm, like, no. Wherever you are. That's right. Because wherever you are is the hardest soil because that's where you're10:31 gonna be opposed. That's where you're gonna be attacked. So you you plant your flag somewhere, that's the hardest place to be. True. We planted ours in Denver. So before I ever met Sean, I I knew we were coming. I really10:40 sensed the Lord leading us here. Yeah. But he was a he was a he was an encourager at the time because he was the 1 guy, and we we never I mean, it's been, what, 14 years we never even talked, but, you know, at the time,10:50 I was like, at least there's 1 guy that I met that's kingdom minded, like, go for it. We're not in competition. Let's just go reach people for Jesus, and I like that.10:58 Yeah. And and I think moving forward now, I mean, Brave has a big mission. You you really do. You've got 3 campuses, and where where do you see this whole11:10 thing going? Where where is Brave going? How how can you tell your congregants? How can you tell the people watching right now? Where do you see the future of Brave and what you have,11:21 apostolically Mhmm. Prophetically, possibly, seen where Brave might be going in the future? Yeah.11:28 Well, 1 thing for me just to back up. I mean, 1 of the reasons I mean, for 15 years, I was wrestling with the Lord. I had a love hate relationship with the church even after coming to Christ because what I saw, my11:38 experience in the church Mhmm. Which doesn't make it right or wrong, it's just my own personal experience was same people sitting in the same pews, at the same time getting up, leaving. No life change. That's what I saw.11:49 Mhmm. Now, that probably is more indicative of where I was at than what's actually true, but that's what I saw. So, I never wanted to be part of the church. So I was 1 of those guys. I love Jesus. I just don't like the11:59 church. I think there's a lot of people out there like that. Sure. Over fifth over the course of a 15 year period reading the Bible, studying the word, watching what God does, you know, God took me through a journey12:07 where I'm like, I don't hate the church. I love the church. I'm angry that that the church is not doing what the church is supposed to be doing holistically across the nation in most places, And repented and told the12:18 Lord, hey, Lord, I'm I'm kinda doing my own thing because I'm not aligned with what your word says. Your church is the most important, vehicle on the planet, and I'll do anything to serve the church in any capacity you'd12:28 have for me if you use me that way. And that's why we moved to Denver to plant a church. So I'm a churchman at heart. I mean, parachurch, fine, so long as it's connected to a local church. But even us, we have Brave12:37 Media. We have academy. Great. I'm for that, but I'm for the local church, and so goes the church, so goes the world. And so if the church Brave Church cease to exist, we don't have Brave Media, we don't have Brave12:46 Academy. We just don't because that's not important. Yeah. What's important is the church, and the church is what every good thing springs from. Yep. And so and I think I forgot a question. So just where do12:57 you see it going?12:58 Where I see it going is Yeah. Let me see. I mean, when we moved out here, I think I think 1 of our things is, you know, we say challenging brave warriors for courageous kingdom advancement. 1 of the uniquenesses at Brave13:06 is when you walk through the doors at Brave or you meet people from Brave, if you're coming in and you don't want the full counsel of God, if you don't want the fullness of what he requires for you, you're gonna hate it13:16 here. And, I think that's the differentiator. Yeah. So, we're gonna love you. We're gonna bless you. We're gonna hug you. We're gonna tell you you're special. You're created in God's image. All those things, but we are13:25 not gonna shy away from the truth of God's word, and there may be Sundays where that's uncomfortable for you. We're gonna ask you to pray aloud. We're gonna ask you to get in a cadre. We're gonna ask you to be on mission13:35 and go out and live it and go tell it, and that's scary. Yeah. And but I I I think what we're doing is normal Christianity because when I read the Bible, that's what people do. Yeah. And so it's not abnormal. What's13:47 abnormal is to dumb down and water down the word and to have not have people pray and to not do things that are gonna make people uncomfortable and to let people choose if they wanna do that. And that that's abnormal13:58 that's abnormal and foreign to anything biblical that you see. Jesus said his invitation to the gospel was, if you wanna come after me, you must deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me. So come die with me, and14:08 then you can come. Yeah. And if you don't wanna do that, I don't need you. Right? I mean, that's the invitation to the gospel. And so for me, it's like, how many more people can we reach, and how many more people can we14:17 set on mission? And, like, and and till I die like, the day we plateau, and I think now we have staff that feel this way, the day we plateau and we say we're doing alright, I don't care if we had 50000 people and, you14:28 know, 35 campuses, and we pat ourselves on the back and say, I think we're doing pretty good. I'm out. I'm gonna go somewhere where I can continue to advance the kingdom of God. And so, I believe at Brave, what the14:39 Lord's calling us to do, is plant more campuses. Yep. I believe he wants us to build more schools. I believe he wants us to use, media and our proclamation ministry and different resources to to go out ahead and be a14:51 prophetic voice so that people around the country can know who we are, what we do, and how they can be aligned. Because I just think there's a need for more churches like Brave and communities all across our country. And14:59 if more people were living, like the wonderful people that call Brave Church their home and are growing in sanctification and wanting to live on mission, our nation changes. And if our nation changes, you know, then15:10 we're sending people while we're doing that simultaneously as the Lord raises up people, send people around the world. I mean, let's go. Let's go. And, you know, I think about the 10 40 window in the Middle East and all15:18 across India and all let's go. Like, let's go do you have to realize for me, when God was calling me here, I mean, I was in Europe at the time, and,15:31 I was praying to the Lord. I'm like, I'll go to Middle East. I remember I had a a missions professor say, why don't you pray to go to Yemen? I didn't even know how to find Yemen on a map, I don't think, at the time. And15:40 so I said, I'm like, Lord, I'll go to Yemen. I was in the Czech Republic. I'm like, Lord, I'll come here. I'll learn the language. I mean, I was single at the time. I'm like, I'll do whatever you want me to do. And I15:48 through Jeremiah and Ezekiel, Lord's like, no. You're gonna go to your own people, and you're gonna tell them to repent. I'm like, I don't wanna do that. I just wanna go tell people the good you know what I mean? And so,15:57 that was the beginning of it. 8 years later, moved out to Denver, planted a church, but I really believe that God has me in America, that this is where he wants me. Now I hold it like this. You know I do. Yep. God called16:07 me overseas. God called me to Baghdad. I'll go tomorrow. I don't I don't have a stake in where I need to be and what I need to do. I as long as I'm aligned with what the Lord has. But for Brave, I just believe there's16:17 many people that are gonna, you know, where you're at is not where you're gonna end up because God's gonna lift you up out of the seat that you're in to go help us plant other campuses in different venues and locations16:26 so we can spread the gospel of Christ, grow people up, and send more people on a mission around the world.16:31 Yeah. I'd like to go backwards just to touch here. Yeah. Go. And it has more to do with the type of preaching that you do. I mean, you are unapologetically preaching the word of God, andPreaching with Boldness and Faithfulness 16:43 I think people are fearful to do that knowing that their congregants might walk away from their church. Talk a little bit why you're not scared to do that. Talk a little bit why that is so critical16:55 to the mission of Brave.16:56 Yeah. I think, you know, for me, I I when I went to seminary, I I felt like when I went to seminary, I was in a environment I'd never been in in my life. With homeschool kids, I wasn't homeschooled.17:09 Moody Bible Institute kids, I never went there. I I mean, I I didn't grow up in that environment. Like, the who I am now, that's not how I grew up. And if I would have seen who I am now when I was a kid, I would have17:20 thought I was 1 of the weirdest people in the world. Right? I mean, I was too conservative, bible bigot. I don't like people like who I am. I mean, that's how I would have viewed myself. Sure. And so, you know, for me,17:32 going into ministry was never a, oh, yeah. I can't wait. It's what I want. It was very reluctantly, more like Jonah of, alright. I mean, if that's what you want me to do, fine. I'll do it. More like that.17:43 Yep.17:43 And so even as I did I mean, I've always had a thrill serving the Lord. Don't get me wrong. But it took a long time to get to a place where my joy caught up with my obedience, if that makes sense. Yeah. And so now that17:53 I'm here doing what I do, my only my only job is to present the word and to and to break. So I don't think of myself as,18:06 bold or I I don't I don't view myself as that or anything. But I I remember when I used to travel with my wife before I was out here, and I preach and I go sit down, I'm like, why is everybody so quiet? She's like,18:16 because you challenged them too much. They're not used to that. And I'm like, I I was just talking. Just being myself. Yeah. But I realized for me, when I get up to preach, I've spent enough time in prayer, and I've18:26 spent enough time before the Lord, and I get a sense from what the text is saying. I'm gonna be truthful what that text is saying to the best of my ability. Yep. I'm not thinking about what you think about me. I'm18:35 thinking about, I love you so much. I want you to hear what Jesus is saying, and I want you to know. And then you can do whatever you want with that. And I love you no matter what you do with that, but I'm not gonna18:44 apologize because I'm gonna stand before the Lord someday, not from not before any 1 of you. Like, I don't get to bring 5, 10, 15000 people with me. Like, we loved Jeff. I I get to stand before 1, and I get to18:56 say, what did you think about what I did? Yep. And I'm and that's more terrifying to me than about anything else in my life because I realize, like, I'm journeying. I'm not I'm not an expert on the Bible. I've studied19:07 the Bible. I'm showing myself approved. I'm learning it. I'm continuing to grow in it daily. I'm not an expert. I'll never be an expert, but I'm growing in it. And so for me, when I stand up and preach, that is, that is19:17 an act of obedience and a desire because I love God, and I love the flock, and, I want people to know the truth because it's the truth that sets people free. It's the truth that allows people to live. It's the truth that19:30 you know, so what what's been interesting as of late in the last year, I've gone online just to listen to what other pastors say, which I've never really done before, and I was that was what was shocking to me, was how19:40 many pastors don't open up the Bible, how many pastors apologize for truth. I mean, I I can give you an example.19:46 Yeah. Do it. I'd love to hear it.19:47 So in our LGBTQ plus, you know, alphabet mafia day, you know. I've I've listened to pastors open up saying, hey, today we're gonna talk about a hard topic.20:00 We're gonna talk about gender identity. We're gonna talk about homosexuality, and I want you to know before we get started, we love all homosexuals and stuff like this. And I'm like, why why are we doing that? We20:10 wouldn't do that with any other sin. Today, I'm gonna talk to you that are spousal abusers. Mhmm. I wanna know before we do this, we love you all. You're beating your wife. We just love you so much, and we're we're so20:20 glad you're here. And we wouldn't do that. Yes. And the reason we do that is because we let the culture dictate what we're gonna say. Mhmm. John the Baptist was beheaded because he spoke the word of God. Jesus was20:29 crucified because he is the son of God. Paul was martyred because he spoke the word. I mean, Peter was crucified upside down because he spoke the word of God. I mean, if you're gonna preach and be a prophet, longevity20:40 should not be a goal of yours. Faithfulness should be. And for any believer, faithfulness, not self preservation, should be our goal. So at the end of the day, I think the more I've grown in my faith, the less I care20:52 about what people think of me. Mhmm. I'm human. I don't like it when people don't like me. I don't like when people say mean things about me anymore than anybody else does. But at the end of the day, sometimes it feels21:01 like a badge of honor. Because I know if I preach the truth and you're coming after me, it's not me that you're mad at. You're you're mad at the God that said it. I'm just his messenger.21:11 Yeah. Yeah. And and part 2 to that is you'll be judged more harshly.21:16 Hundred percent.21:16 And like you said, there won't be 15000 behind you saying, Pastor Jeff was so good every single Sunday. It's you and him and being judged differently than what everybody else is being21:28 judged. And21:31 my hope is that I'm faithful. Yeah. My hope is I've been faithful. My hope is where I did, you know, and this happens all the time. Because I think there's this, okay, when I know the Bible, then I'll be ready to go. I21:42 still don't know the Bible well enough. So, I mean, to all the young preachers out there, like, hey, Yeah. Train yourself up. Go to seminary. I mean, learn God's word. There there's a place for that. But even after you21:51 graduate from seminary, you're still not gonna know it. After you live for 20, you're still not gonna know. I mean, you're gonna spend time growing in it for the rest of your life. So don't wait till you get perfect, but22:00 humbly get yourself before the Lord and let Him teach you the Word, and then let the Word be your plumb line for what you're going to teach. So, yeah, if you can tell a story that can tie into the Bible, great. But if22:10 you can't, that's okay too. Just preach the Word. Tell people, Here's what God says. Plead with people to believe it. And, you know, my hope is that if not if. My hope is when I meet22:22 Jesus, I'll hear Him say, Well done, good and faithful servant. Yeah. You know, and I tell people all the time in our church, if I'm saying something, and you're looking in your Bible, and you're like, that's not what it22:31 says, believe what the Bible says, because I'm only trying to say what the Bible says. Yep. The Bible's true. I'm flawed. Yep. Bible's perfect. I'm a sinner. Right? So it's the word of God that changes everything, and I22:42 just think there's so few people out there that believe the word of God is that powerful.22:46 Yep.22:47 I I just I don't think 99 percent of pastors believe that. I don't.22:53 Yeah. I22:53 think less than 1 percent of pastors believe22:55 That that's probably true too.22:56 They might reference the Bible. They may pull text and say, oh, that's true. That's true. But do you believe the whole counsel of God is true? Do you believe that's more important than anything you say? Yes. I do.23:04 Yep. And I think part 2 to that is on the flip of what you just said, don't be angry at me when you hear a text that you don't that doesn't fit your lifestyle. You know? Go to God with that. Don't go don't come to23:16 me as the pastor. Go to God because this is his word. This is I love when you say that because it it introspects me a little bit and forces me to open up scripture and go back and make sure that I understand23:27 that I get right in my relationship with the Lord. I hope others are doing that as well.23:32 Amen. And I I think, you know, we hear stories all the time. I know when I preached on, the family here recently, you know, several couples in our church were living together. Several of them said, We're not living23:42 together anymore. What do we do? Kind of started making the right steps to go through the process of moving out, of doing it God's way, of getting married. And that thrills my23:54 heart, you know, because, again, if it was for 1 couple that did that, you know, then it's good. So, you just don't You never know who's hearing what message, and it's kind of the parable of the soils.24:06 I mean, some people hear it, some people don't hear it. I mean, you don't know. All you can do is be faithful. And I think that's true of every ministry. The word of God needs to be central to it.24:14 Yeah. Well, let's let's go back to the beginning then. There are all these different giftings. I'm a young person that thinks I wanna be a pastor. How do you guide them in going, Yeah, you you need to24:26 go do that if the Lord's calling you to it? Yeah.24:28 I think you just continue to walk in obedience. I was meeting with a a young guy this week, goes to a Christian school. I was kind of walking him through how to how to create a message and and how to do a message, and we24:39 were we were in Genesis. We were looking at, when Moses went away and they created the golden calf. Yep. And I I was kinda showing him, here's what I would do, and I really basic stuff. I'm like, you know, if you can do24:49 this, basically, you can do this. And he's feeling tugged, and he's feeling pulled. I'm like, just continue to walk in it. Continue to see what the Lord does. Now, for me, I I didn't have anybody helping me with that,24:59 and by the time I did, I'm like, well, I don't wanna do that. Because my life was, I just wanna be successful, or I wanna make money, or I wanna have influence, or I wanna but but deep down underneath that25:11 surface was that's not really what I wanted. What I wanted was I wanted to make an impact. I wanted to to live a life. I wanted to have influence, but really what I'm doing now, I believe, is exactly what I was called to25:21 do. Mhmm. You know? And and so for me, you know, I look at it, and I'm like, if I could have any other job in the world, I don't want any other job in the world. I know I'm doing what I'm supposed to do Yeah. To the best25:30 of my ability in doing it, and I'll just leave the results to the Lord. Yeah. So I I think for young guys, you just continue to take steps of faith and watch the Lord unfold doors. Yeah. It's not like something you can25:40 you can sit at your desk and be like, okay, if God wants this, I guess he'll do it. I mean, any more than if you wanna get married, just sit at home. Hey, Lord, when you have that person ring the doorbell, I know. You25:50 have to walk out your life. And so, as you're walking it out, if there's a stirring, and sometimes, I mean, I would say to young guys, sometimes sometimes guys are like, well, how do I I mean, I think I I wanna preach26:00 too much. I mean, I didn't get too much joy in that. Maybe that's wrong. Maybe the devil's calling me to do. And I'm like, the devil's not calling you to preach God's word, and there should be a joy in wanting to preach.26:08 I there was always a joy in me wanting to communicate God's word. It was just all the other stuff that came with it. I'm like, I don't think I can do that.26:14 Yeah.26:15 And part of what, you know, say my ministry is, I I did a podcast with Kent Shaw. When I was talking to him on the phone, he's like, can you preach? I said, yes. Can you cast vision? I said, yes. Can you go call up men?26:25 I said, yes. He said, if you can do those 3 things, we can staff around you. Mhmm. And so, it's really interesting, you know, we started the question with your gifting. Based upon your giftedness, you're gonna staff26:34 around because you have to have all the gifts functioning in the church. Yep. But, too often, you try to fit what the mold is for such and such a pastor, and they do it this way. And, if my ministry was,26:46 okay, you you get to preach for 15 minutes on a weekend, and the majority of your time is visiting doing hospital visitations and counseling sessions, I don't think that would be a good use of my gifting. Yeah. I think26:57 I'd be frustrated. I think my whole family would be frustrated with me, because I'd be frustrated all the time. That's not my best. But if you told somebody else, hey, your primary responsibility is gonna be proclaiming27:08 God's word, spending time in prayer, and doing content creation for him, and, calling up men, casting vision for where the church is gonna go, and then entrusting to several people on your team to go do things. I think27:18 they'd be like, I don't wanna do that. And it's really interesting now because, you know, some people would be like, hey, as the church has gotten big, you know, Pastor Jeff, why do you make all the decisions and stuff?27:25 And I'm like, what's really funny, I I make so few decisions now. I don't really I mean, I'm I'm in the vision state, and I'm working with a lot of different people, but there's so much empowerment that's happened here,27:35 and I hope that our congregation is feeling so much empowerment because for us to get to go where we're gonna go, that's always been my desire is to see other people flourish in their faith. And, you know, I'm not27:44 territorial. I'm kingdom. So when I see other churches do well, I cheer. I'm excited. If another church grows by a thousand people, I'm so excited for them. I wanna see the I wanna see our city change. Yep. And for27:55 anybody that wants to see our city change for Christ.27:58 Yeah. And that's a knockout comment right there. Like, that that is such a powerful thing for young leaders to hear of we are for the church. Amen. We want people to be successful as a church.28:10 And and whether your gifting is the exact same as pastor Jeff's or completely different, there's a way to get there. And this28:17 is what I'd say. Whatever your gifting is, you're gonna get beat up for whatever your gifting is not. So I don't know how many people come, well, my pastor, he wasn't a very good preacher, so I'm I'm out of there. Well,28:27 that may not have been his best gift. He was teaching. He was being faithful to the word, but he's a great shepherd. He loves coming alongside. Or, I left that church. All they did was share the gospel. Well, your28:35 pastor's an evangelist, and he's doing a really good job, but maybe he needed to surround himself with some people. So, I get if I'm gonna get beat up, I'm gonna get beat up all the time. Well, hey. You don't spend28:44 enough time with us individually. How come I don't get time with you? Because I don't I don't have it. Mhmm. And that's not my calling. Mhmm. My calling is to shepherd you by feeding you the word of God, empowering you28:54 the word of God, building systems with great pastors in our team that are helping shepherd you so you can go do it. So, if you wanna grow, plenty of opportunity to do that. Yep. So, again, whatever your gifting is,29:06 you'll get beat up for what your gifting's not. That's true of anybody, not just pastors. If you're prophetic, you'll be beat up because you're not compassionate enough. You're compassionate enough. You don't tell the29:13 truth. I mean, whatever it is. So again, it goes back to the beginning. Just be who Christ made you to be and be the fullness of that. And then appreciate all the other things that you're not so you can bring and29:21 surround yourself with other people so that as a body in the church, we we get to play a role.29:26 That's amazing. Give me a final thought on all of this just as we come to an end here. You know, there's so much goodness that's happening in churches across the nation right now, and I don't wanna lose sight of that. We29:38 we focus heavily on Brave. But if there's a final note that you wanna send out to everybody about this whole topic, where where do you wanna finish?29:46 Yeah. I would say be faithful to the Lord Yeah. And to his church. There there's no greater vehicle on the planet. If you're a pastor, you have the highest calling that you possibly can have on this side of heaven, be29:56 faithful to his church. If you're not a pastor, be faithful in your job, be faithful to the church. If the church, would just honor the lord Jesus Christ and live out obediently and be on mission, our our everything30:06 we're looking at in our world will change. And so, my greatest push is, hey, the Holy Spirit gifted you just the way he wanted to gift you. He gave you the gifts. He gave you the measure of gifts, the the ability, grow30:17 in all of that. Pursue the Lord in everything you do. Make the church in Jesus Christ your number 1 priority, and watch God do incredible things.30:25 Yeah. Praise God. That that's really all that needed to be said. What a great episode. Thank you for your time as always, pastor Jeff. Thanks for watching the Brave Way podcast. I'm Brian Bond, pastor Jeff with30:37 me. And from our heart to yours, know that you are loved.In this video 0:00 Understanding Your Spiritual Gifts5:48 The Mission and Vision of Brave Church16:40 Preaching with Boldness and Faithfulness
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