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Is it Time to Cut Off My Toxic Family?
September 9, 2024 · 25 min
In this week's Q&A, Pastor Mark and Grace answer the question every young couple seems to have: how do we handle overbearing extended family?Pre Order Pastor Marks newest book Vote Like Jesus to help you navigate this election year! -Instead of looking left or right, get the book that shows you how to look up to the Kingdom instead of down to Hell: https://realfaith.com/vote/ In addition As a thank you for listening to the podcast, here’s my gift to you – one of my post popular (and controversial) books, New Days Old Demons: https://realfaith.com/fire/Follow on social media!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MarkDriscollMinistries?sub_confirmation=1Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pastormarkInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/markdriscollTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@pastormarkdriscollTwitter: https://linktr.ee/markdriscoll Click here for more resources: https://linktr.ee/markdriscollFollow on social media!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MarkDriscollMinistries?sub_confirmation=1Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pastormarkInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/markdriscollTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@pastormarkdriscollTwitter: https://linktr.ee/markdriscoll Click here for more resources: https://linktr.ee/markdriscoll
Series Real Marriage with Mark & Grace Driscoll September 9, 2024 · 25 min · Real Marriage with Mark & Grace Driscoll
In this week's Q&A, Pastor Mark and Grace answer the question every young couple seems to have: how do we handle overbearing extended family?Pre Order Pastor Marks newest book Vote Like Jesus to help you navigate this election year! -Instead of looking left or right, get the book that shows you how to look up to the Kingdom instead of down to Hell: https://realfaith.com/vote/ In addition As a thank you for listening to the podcast, here’s my gift to you – one of my post popular (and controversial) books, New Days Old Demons: https://realfaith.com/fire/Follow on social media!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MarkDriscollMinistries?sub_confirmation=1Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pastormarkInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/markdriscollTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@pastormarkdriscollTwitter: https://linktr.ee/markdriscoll Click here for more resources: https://linktr.ee/markdriscollFollow on social media!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MarkDriscollMinistries?sub_confirmation=1Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pastormarkInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/markdriscollTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@pastormarkdriscollTwitter: https://linktr.ee/markdriscoll Click here for more resources: https://linktr.ee/markdriscoll ...more Show the full description Show less In this week's Q&A, Pastor Mark and Grace answer the question every young couple seems to have: how do we handle overbearing extended family?Pre Order Pastor Marks newest book Vote Like Jesus to help you navigate this election year! -Instead of looking left or right, get the book that shows you how to look up to the Kingdom instead of down to Hell: https://realfaith.com/vote/ In addition As a thank you for listening to the podcast, here’s my gift to you – one of my post popular (and controversial) books, New Days Old Demons: https://realfaith.com/fire/Follow on social media!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MarkDriscollMinistries?sub_confirmation=1Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pastormarkInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/markdriscollTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@pastormarkdriscollTwitter: https://linktr.ee/markdriscoll Click here for more resources: https://linktr.ee/markdriscollFollow on social media!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MarkDriscollMinistries?sub_confirmation=1Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pastormarkInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/markdriscollTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@pastormarkdriscollTwitter: https://linktr.ee/markdriscoll Click here for more resources: https://linktr.ee/markdriscoll
Series Real Marriage with Mark & Grace Driscoll
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With Pastor Mark, it’s all about Jesus! He is a spiritual leader, prolific author, and compelling speaker, but at his core, he is a family man. Mark and his
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0:00 Well, like Jesus answers to the 15 big questions about God versus government is my latest book and sermon series headed into election season. And it's0:12 not about personalities, it's about biblical principles. That's what I'm talking about. As a Christian, you need to come to your citizenship, your national patriotism, which you should0:24 have, and also your voting booth decision with God's word ringing in your ears and guiding your decision making. If you don't understand what God's word says0:36 about the demonic, how Satan and demons work through governmental forces, how God has always put representatives for himself in significant and influential government positions, you will0:48 understand what's actually going on. You'll just be sucked into the typical left, right, progressive conservative arguments. And I want you to go north, south, not left or right, north0:59 and south. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. What's God's government like in the kingdom of God, and how do we, as his people, the church, live out out the1:11 same values of our king, Jesus Christ, and his kingdom, the kingdom of God. This will be a highly controversial, very helpful book. And, it's a lot1:23 better than the mainstream news if I'm totally honest with you because they don't know our god, because they don't know the enemy of our god, and because they don't know the word of god, they don't know a damn thing.1:35 Well, howdy. Welcome to the, Real Marriage podcast. Welcome to our house. Welcome to my home office library. This is bring your wife to work week, so thank you for coming to the end of the1:46 hallway. Ready for a question? Alright. Here's 1 of the questions from social media. How should a couple handle overbearing family members that don't respect
1:57 boundaries? Overbearing family members that don't respect boundaries. Come on, got to answer this.
2:06 No, I thought you.
2:06 No, gotta answer this. Come on, this is all you. Right.
2:11 All me. Respectfully, prayerfully, you need to come to agreement first between you and your spouse
2:23 so that then you can go and be like minded with the family members. Whoever's family member it is, so if it's, you know, my side of the family,
2:34 I need to go talk to them but I need to do so with, you know, the authority of us as a couple. And prayerfully, by the power of the Holy Spirit, if it's your side of the family, you need to go
2:46 talk to them and work out whatever issue it is or create a boundary if necessary. There's a lot of variables in this question because there's not a cut and dry answer because it depends on the family
2:58 member, it depends on if they're saved, unsaved, it depends on how they're behaving, it depends on if they're dangerous, you know, in any sort of way or if they are unaware, foolish,
3:10 there's a lot of variables as to how to deal with the situation. So, it's a general question that we can get to some specifics and some, you know, answers with some examples,
3:22 but Leave and Cleave that you wrote is an excellent resource.
3:26 Thank you. Yeah, Leave and Cleave, it's an entire workbook. It'll take you all the way through it. You should do it as a couple before you speak to family members. There's an entire sermon
3:38 series as well at real faith dot com. So let me explain. So when our kids went to get married, we got 3 that are married. I literally told them, and I've said this a lot and it goes big on social
3:50 media every time because apparently it's important. But when you get married, he's not joining her family. She's not joining his family. They are leaving their mother and father to go start their own family. And so the
4:01 whole concept of leave and cleave, it's out of Genesis in the King James, leave your mother and father, cleave to your wife, that is passionately pursue 1 another, and the 2 become
4:13 1, and what it is, it's a new 1. So, our daughter in laws did not join our family, our son-in-law did not join our family, they started their own family. Now, as and so there's
4:25 3 ways that family systems work. 1 is enmeshment, and that is where they don't allow boundaries, lines, and differentiation between families.
4:37 And usually what causes that, this is going to be offensive but helpful, is a domineering, overbearing, possibly traumatized and or religious woman who has a weak,
4:49 passive, indifferent, a habien husband. He tolerates, she dominates, he doesn't deal with her, so then he passes his headache on to the next generation. And if that is you
5:01 and you're an angry woman who's upset because you just got triggered, found you. And what happens then is that woman is so used to controlling, domineering, and overbearing her husband and
5:12 children that when they get married, she just expects that domineering role and position to continue. Sometimes the kids will have guilt around it because they're like, well, mom was abused, mom
5:24 was abandoned, mom has trauma. You know, we know we love mom. We know why she is the way she is and or, know, dad doesn't really engage, dad doesn't really love her, dad doesn't really lead,
5:36 you know, their marriage isn't really strong, she's hurting and lonely, and now that we're leaving, she's feeling abandoned and lost. So then, if it's a daughter or a mama's boy, it's like, Oh boy,
5:48 you know, how do I keep mama happy? How do I love mama? How do I save mama? That leads to a measurement, 1 big dysfunctional family system, not a bunch of differentiated healthy families. This
6:00 really comes into play with holidays. What is going to happen and who gets to decide? This really comes into play when you have kids. Now it's the grandkids and the cousins and
6:13 then if there's what's called a nodal event, a big epochal event in the family, dad gets cancer, mom, you know, files for divorce, bankruptcy gets filed, something like that, then the whole family wants to come in and
6:25 save and rescue and care give and get all enmeshed. Now because of a crisis or a trauma or a shared loss, they're all bound together. Well, that's like welding the whole family into 1 big dysfunctional
6:36 family. The other option is cut off and cut off is we're done. We're moving across the country. We're changing our cell phone number. We're never talking to you again. In really bad situations, you get lawyers and
6:48 restraining orders and it gets really ugly and you're like, we're not showing up for Christmas and you can't see the grandkids. That's cut off. Cut off should only happen if somebody's dangerous.
7:00 If they're an alcoholic, they can't be with the kids. If they are, you know, perverts, they can't be with the kids and shouldn't be around your spouse. So, you only cut people off if they're
7:12 a danger or a threat or a criminal or demonic. The goal would be differentiation and that is different families have the right to do things differently.
7:22 And
7:23 so, you know, we tell our kids, so we got 3 kids that are married, so that's 3 additional families. Like, what does your family want to do for Christmas? What does your family want to do for Thanksgiving? What does
7:35 family want to do for your kid's birthday? And so what we now do, because now we're the parents and the grandparents, we are in the secondary position.
7:46 When the kids were little, we were in the primary position. Here's what you're doing for Christmas, here's what we're doing for Thanksgiving, here's what we're doing for summer vacation. Now that they're married, we're
7:56 in the second day. What do you guys want to do? What we're sometimes we'll say, Here's what we're doing.
8:03 You're welcome to come, but we understand if you have other plans.
8:06 We have family dinner on Friday, we just had 1. You're certainly welcome. If you don't come, there's no events, there'll be no tears and emotional manipulation and pressure and guilt and shame and triangling and family
8:17 intrigue. Here's what we're doing. We'll get the families to, like the couples together, like, what do you guys want to do for Christmas? Like, what do you wanna do? You know, some will be like, we're gonna be out of
8:28 town. Okay. Well, do you wanna meet previously? Do you know what? I'm like, what do you wanna do? Because they wanna start their own traditions with their own kids. Thanksgiving, same thing. Last year we told them we
8:38 could tell them what we did last year for Thanksgiving.
8:41 We had a celebration on Monday night and then we went out of town.
8:46 Enjoy! Happy Thanksgiving, we love you, we will be in Hawaii. And that's what our family has decided to do. This year it'll be different now that the grandkids are all here. And so,
8:59 but what it is, is it's what happens is usually 1 person does all the talking. They then will form an alliance with other family members where they're it's like a faction. Now you're up against a mob Lots
9:11 of pressure. You're feeling it. If either of you is a master, has fear of man, or doesn't like conflict, you just keep sort of like, okay, I guess we'll just give in. But then it reaches a point
9:23 where you're done. You like, you've hit your lid, you've hit your limit, you're like, I don't want to talk to them again, I don't want to see them again, I can't hang out with them again, I don't enjoy them, I'm done
9:32 with them, then you're going to be considering cutoffs. So, when you get to this point, number 1, how important is it to stay agreed and aligned as a married couple before you deal with extended family?
9:44 You have to be. You have to be because they will get you off your game if you're not.
9:48 Divide and conquer, they're going split you. Yeah.
9:50 And in a minute, intentional. It's just that if that's how they've always done things, that's all they know to do until they are having to deal with a new way that you're presenting. I think
10:02 you guys are 1 as a married couple. You leave in Cleveland and become 1, and so you need to agree on how to handle the family members. If you don't, 1 of you
10:14 will get resentful toward the other. If you make a decision about my extended family that I feel off about, we need to
10:26 wait to deal with it until either I figure out that I'm wrong or you figure out a new way that kind of helps me feel better about how we're going to do
10:38 it and vice versa. I think, you know, as we're dealing with the extended family, whoever it is, we both need to come to a place where we feel like the Holy Spirit has given us the opportunity, number 1, the
10:50 timing, the tone, and we can be together in how that is presented.
10:57 Pastor Mark here saying thanks for joining me for my podcast. I have been doing this for a very, very, very long time. I got my cancel card out of the way about a decade ago, which is great. It's like
11:09 puberty. You just want to get through it and move on into adulthood. So now I have the great joy of preaching the Bible and triggering progressive Christians who need someone to agitate them. Thank you
11:20 for joining me and supporting our ministry, and I'd love to get a free gift to you. So if you do this, I'll I'll get a free book to you. Number 1, leave a 5 star review. Everybody else only leaves a 1 star, and I need
11:31 some help. In addition, review it, share it, send it to your friends, send it to your enemies, send it to your woke family. And if you text me to 9 9 3 8 3, that's 9 9 3 8 3 with the word
11:43 podcast, I'll send you a free book. Well, and you got a real crisis if 1 of you is with your side of the family, but not the spouse and vice versa. So all of a sudden cycle, I'm not going to
11:55 family dinner where you can go. Well, I'm not gonna so then what you've got, you've got the vision. You a left hand. Still enmeshed with your family of origins which means you can't because you can't cleave which is
12:07 to passionately pursue 1 another unless you leave your mother and father. And so at that point, you're still enmeshed. And so
12:15 And the reason why we know this is because this is what we did. We did it wrong.
12:20 Oh, dang. Don't be honest. Come on.
12:22 You'll continue to hear this through the No.
12:25 Okay. Now, since we're going to be honest, we're going to be totally honest. This is what you did. Leaving mother and father, not such a big thing for me.
12:36 You? Yeah. I brought my wounds with me and then I stayed attached. And so, instead of dealing with the things that I had in my life so that I could not bring
12:48 that into marriage and I could be completely attached to my husband instead, it took some time for me to have people speak into that, including you. You tried and
13:00 I resisted and then we had other people speaking into it and finally I was able to the Holy Spirit opened my eyes and my heart.
13:08 So, is the case in most marriages. If you were forced so in differentiation, we're connected, but we're not codependent. You got your family, we got our family, there's boundaries and
13:20 we respect those and it works, it's healthy. That's always the goal. But in most marriages, if 1 person had to choose between enmeshment or cutoff, usually the husband and the wife
13:31 generally would choose the opposite. So if I was only given 2 options, enmeshment or cutoff, enmeshment meaning we're codependent and everybody's in my business, cutoff meaning
13:43 I'm in the woods with a handgun listening to, I don't know, music and reading my Bible, which would I choose?
13:53 Men would generally choose cut off. Women would generally choose enmeshment unless there's some sort of trauma with their family that they cut them off which is actually a good thing.
14:02 So we're pretty typical and so
14:06 Wow. That's the first time you've ever said that.
14:08 Yeah. That's true. That's true. So, hey, I feel normal. What what a moment this is. Let me just I'm gonna take a moment and just soak it. Thank you, honey.
14:20 And so when we got married though, you were the youngest of 3 daughters. And so, you know, it's 3 daughters and mom and dad and your dad was a pastor. And so, you know, there was
14:32 a lot of interconnectedness and you were the baby in the family. I was the firstborn. That's part of it as well in the birth order. So firstborn, the parents are like, my parents, well, I mean, I love my folks and
14:42 they're godly. We get along great today. But like, they're like, hey, got 4 of their kids. I'm exhausted. Please leave the house and get off the payroll. Know, and I'm a young, I'm a, I'm a young man. I mean, I've always
14:54 been very strong headed and independent. For you, it's like, that's our baby girl. That's the last of 3 daughters in the nest.
15:03 Other marriages weren't necessarily, you know, healthy that they sent out and so, unfortunately that caused a lot more pressure for me because my sister's marriages didn't end well, the first ones, and
15:15 then I'm coming along and being sent off and I think there's fear, even though they loved Mark, there's fear like, Oh wait, is this 1 going to work? And I think that was part of it as well.
15:26 And let me give you the perspective on the other side now that we've got a son-in-law and 2 daughters in law that are great and love Jesus and we're close with them. We're so grateful for them. They're wonderful. But as
15:38 parents, it's a loss, man. Like, I mean, you love your kids. They're always there. You give them everything. Like, if you're a mom, you're like, I've given my what
15:47 That's Yeah. 20 18 plus years. And now all a sudden there.
15:50 I you know, God created you in me. I fed you. I held you. You threw up on me. You kept slapping me. You took a dump on me. You bit me. I still blessed you, and now you're gonna
16:02 leave me. Now that you're finally healthy and functional, you're you're departing. But you can't you know, you're like Yeah.
16:10 And so It's a normal grieving
16:12 process. Yeah. It's hard for the parents. So give a little and be like, okay. You know, we are we are we're leaving our mother and father. We are different but it it just knows the parent like it's sad. Like so tell them
16:23 the sock story.
16:24 Well, so there's grieving all along just because there's new seasons with kids. And even though you're glad and it's a blessing that they're growing and they're healthy and they're learning, there's still a grief to
16:36 losing each season of your kids and and that at least for a mom and that's normal. And you need to go through that, not clinging to them, but you need to let yourself process to the next season for each of your kids. And
16:48 so, when we dropped each of our kids off at kindergarten, we cried because it was a new They were growing up and getting older.
16:54 Especially the daughters.
16:55 And we didn't want to keep them from going to kindergarten or growing
16:58 up Kind of kind of
17:03 There's some loss in each of those seasons. It's realizing, okay, they are getting older, they are going to leave the nest someday.
17:10 They're going be somewhere else today.
17:12 That's right. And so, it's okay to let yourself go through that, get through that, and then, you know, be a good mom in the next season, be a good dad in the next season, but then when they get married or when they're
17:23 independent out of the home, go to college, whatever it is, that's a whole another grief because you realize I'm done with that type of parenting. They don't need me like they used to need me and that's a good thing
17:35 because you raise them to be an adult but it also is a grief and so when our daughter, she stayed with us, our oldest daughter, for a few days before the wedding because her rent
17:47 had been released, she had to give it up, you know, right before the wedding and so, she stayed with I think it was like 3 days and she left early the morning of the wedding
17:58 go Before we were up.
17:59 Before we were up.
18:00 She didn't even say goodbye.
18:01 To bridesmaids.
18:02 I'm still in trauma. I'm still in trauma over this. Let me get to hug her and kiss
18:06 her and say And she left and so, when I got up, I went down and the room was empty and it, like, hit me all of a sudden. And, obviously, we'd been
18:18 planning the wedding. We knew she was gonna get married. We love her. You know, suddenly
18:21 We were pretty sure that her and her husband were gonna be living with us, but we were emotionally ready.
18:27 Yeah. And so it was like 7 AM or something and I go down and there's I'm looking around realizing this is hitting me and I looked down and there's 1 of her socks. She
18:36 left 1 and forgot a sock.
18:40 I was holding on to this sock and I just started crying
18:44 because And then you showed me the sock and
18:46 then you came downstairs and saw me crying and you're like, what's going on? I'm like, she's gone. Oh
18:52 yeah, it's a sock. And I and I started crying. I'm like, oh my gosh. Let's frame the sock, you know.
19:01 So it's a normal process. Now, if we were still weeping over that, that would not be good. But we
19:07 honestly, you pulled out the sock, I probably would cry right now.
19:10 We had a moment and we needed to have that moment because we were launching our daughter into a new season that we were thrilled for her to be going into. But it was just, there's a bit of a loss as a parent. And so,
19:23 it's okay, but also kids need to be gracious with this too, but you can't cling on to them just because it's a loss.
19:30 Well, you'll cause them not to mature and my goal, like I've always said, like, you know, I called whose daughter is getting married and everybody's like, how are you doing with your daughter getting married? I said, I'm
19:40 glad. I love her. I enjoy her. I miss her. I love being her dad. I love being the first man in line in her life and I'm going to go into the second position. But I don't want her to be lonely and
19:52 she's going to outlive me and I don't want her to only be loved while I'm around.
19:56 Yeah.
19:56 You know, and so, go ahead.
19:59 But when you don't release that and let that short grief process happen, then you cling to them and then you end up with the problems that the whole question was based on. You
20:11 end up enmeshing with your child and not releasing them and not letting them be the adult that you've tried to raise them to be and then it becomes a control issue. Sometimes this
20:23 happens as well if the marriage of the parents is not healthy or good because the kids are their life and so when the kids go, they still have to be their life because
20:35 they attach their joy with their kids and so then it becomes a control issue which is super sad. Generally the mom or dad has to deal with something, some wound or trauma
20:47 or something in order to heal from that so that they aren't controlling because fear is underneath control when you're fearful or when you have walls up, that reflects as control
20:58 later in life. So, yeah, it's a very, like I said, there's a lot of questions around this question that we can't just say, well, this is how you do it.
21:06 Thankfully, Pastor Mark Driscoll has provided an incredible resource called Believe in Cleave with a sermon series.
21:13 And it really is helpful to have the categories. I think you'd find to do the workbook, having those categories and then having that conversation together. Okay, within these categories, what are we dealing with? What is
21:24 the Holy Spirit telling us that we need to do? Is it a boundary? Is it an initial conversation to see how they respond? And then a boundary or maybe just walking it out for a season. There's lots of different
21:36 solutions, but this helps give you categories and some ways to really walk the process with extended family.
21:42 Well, and I'll close to this. Your kids are gonna launch or they should launch. Hopefully your 30 year old son is not living in your basement drinking beer out of a sippy cup while
21:54 playing Fortnite. And if so, at the end of this podcast, please go taser him and drag him outside and change the locks on the house. But your kids will launch and
22:05 differentiate. For a while, you can feel like, okay, I don't know where we're at. I don't know how much we're gonna see them or talk to them. Put a lot of grace on it. Keep it in the open hand. And what we are seeing is
22:15 now, the kids are like, hey, do you guys wanna go out on a double day? Yeah, we'd love to go out on a double day. Hey, can we all come over for family dinner or holiday? Yeah. Come on over. Hey, could you watch the
22:26 grandkids? Yeah. We'd love to. We love those blessings. And so now we're in a season where because so if you try and control, you're gonna leave your kids with all or nothing. Yeah. And eventually, they're gonna need
22:38 to choose nothing, which is cut off, just so that they can have enough room to breathe and have their own family. Right. If you if you just give them a little space and a little grace and a little time,
22:50 you become the loving, gracious, healthy, flexible 1. And then the relationship actually can be warm and enjoyable.
22:58 They want to be with you.
22:59 They want to be with you because you're not controlling them. You're serving them and you go into the servant position for the next generation. That's always the hope and prayer goal.
23:08 And they also start to talk to you about the things that you didn't do right as a parent.
23:12 Super fun. What a blessing. I really love that. Dad, I was reflecting on your failures. And In addition to the list that I had, I have some appendices that I'd like to share with you.
23:24 Well, thank you for your ministry of criticism and discouragement. Those are definitely
23:28 great It's an opportunity to help them feel differentiated when you're willing to listen in those conversations and receive. And even if some of the things are not quite accurate in
23:40 context to not excuse, but to just say, I'm sorry that that was Yeah. And as they become parents and as they learn and grow, you know, there'll be some
23:52 things that they realize that they don't do perfectly either. We never claim to be perfect parents. So, it's actually freeing to know that they forgive us for the things that we didn't do perfectly, and we can be
24:04 gracious with them as they learn to parent their own kids. Cool.
24:08 Did pretty good. See you in the next episode. Everybody needs some good news. Our world is filled with nothing but bad news. The good news is the Bible tells us not just what happened, but what always
24:20 happens. And we don't just need to look at the Bible. We can look through it and make perfect and total sense of this weird, woke world in which we live. I've been preaching God's word for about
24:31 30 years, and I wanna let you know that real faith is independent, free, and a voice that is prophetic in a world that is pathetic. And I wanna thank you for your partnership. We are
24:43 100 percent supported by ministry partners like you. You can't cancel us. We don't have advertisers. We don't have publishers. You can go pound sand because people like you pay the
24:54 bills. Go to real faith dot com slash donate. Give your best gift and help me keep up the good fight.
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