Skip to content Session 4 - Empower a Discipleship Movement Mar 21 · 1 hr 3 min ...more
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Rev. Paul Jeyachandran leads the Intentional Disciple Making Church (IDMC) Movement, which is all about calling churches back to its disciplemaking roots. Visit us at idmcmovement.com
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0:00 Hallelujah. God has enabled us to come to the last session for this conference. Now this last session, we're going to be talking about empowering a0:11 discipleship movement. What does it take to empower that spiritual multiplication to take place within the life of a church? Praise God. Shall we look to the Lord in0:23 prayer? Heavenly Father, we thank you for this moment. We thank you for giving us the grace to go through this conference this year and to learn precious lessons from your feet. Even in this final session, I pray that0:34 the Holy Spirit will be our teacher. Grant us your grace, mighty God, to not only be hearers of the word, but doers of it. We thank you in Jesus name. And the people of God said, Amen and0:46 Amen. I want you to turn to your neighbor and say this. There are no church problems. Come on. There are no church problems because there are only people0:57 problems. You and I know that people are the problem. If there are no people in the church, the church will have no problem. See church, there are no church problems, there are people problems, but there are no people1:09 problems. It is only heart problem. If your heart is willing to submit to the Word of God, to the ways of God, there will be no problem. If your heart is willing to let go of pride1:21 and ego, and die to yourself, there'll be no problem. So it's not a heart problem it's an obedience problem obedience to the word. Now when you truly obey it will be1:33 exercised in faith because Paul writes in Romans chapter 1 and verse 5 the obedience of faith. So it's not just an obedience problem, it's a faith problem. When it's a faith problem, it1:45 is actually a spiritual maturity problem. In other words, the more you're spiritually mature, you should be faithful, as well as there should be faith in God and absolute1:56 trust in him. So it is a spiritual maturity problem. So when there is a spiritual maturity problem, it is actually a discipleship problem. So when you really think about the problem in the2:08 church, it is not people problem or church is the problem. It is actually a discipleship problem because people have not been discipled. Now, if you are2:20 in a church where there is a problem, always think about this. God has a plan for every church. And God has a church for every plan. God has a2:32 church for his plan of redeeming the world, redeeming the nations redeeming your community. That's why you and I we need to bring alignment, our church back in alignment with the redemptive2:44 plan of God. And that is why in this session, we're going to explore what does it take to build a discipleship movement? How do you empower a discipleship movement, where you move the church2:56 from a program church to a radical disciple making church, from a church that makes disciples to a church that multiplies disciples. What does it take?3:07 See, to us, we already defined discipleship is all about knowing Jesus, loving Jesus, serving Jesus, abiding in Jesus and becoming more and more like3:19 Jesus. The more you follow Him, the more you will fall in love with Him. In this session, it always begins with ownership.3:30 How do you empower a disciple making movement within the life of a church? Ownership is the key. In other words, from the staff members to the pastoral care team, to every leader,3:42 every small group leader, zone shepherds, zone pastors, ministry directors, board members, every 1 of them should own the vision of making disciples, not only own it,3:54 but model it, follow it. That's the key. So that means if you're a leader, we got to work towards building that ownership into the life of our ministry. So how do you do it?4:06 In this session, we are going to explore 10 lessons that we can learn when we are doing intentional disciple making ministries. Now these 10 lessons, it4:18 has personally applied to me. And I want you to capture this this morning. The first lesson is who's in charge? Who's in charge? In other words, it always4:30 the key to a disciple making church is the disciple making pastor. See, core mission of the church is disciple making. But it needs to start with someone igniting it.4:42 In 1 of my previous sessions I shared with you there are 3 types of leaders. There's the initiator, the person who innovates or improves or initiates things. There's crisis, he comes together, he4:54 initiates a solution. Initiators, pastors ought to be initiators. And there are people who are integrators, they take the vision, they're able to integrate it5:06 to the thinking of the church, assimilate into the programs that are already in existence, the structure that is already in place. And then they implementers, there are people who implement execute the plan.5:18 Pastors are called to be initiators. Now you and I, we need to understand. It doesn't matter what is the model of the church, or what is the governance style of the church, whether it's led5:30 by plurality of people, or whether it is led by deacons or elders, or group of pastors staff. It always comes back to there is a team leader5:41 for the group. You can't run a parliament just by senators. You have to have a prime minister. In other words, there is always a champion that champions the cause.5:53 And in the disciple making church, the champion should be the senior pastor. The senior pastor must model a life of disciple making.6:05 Because if it doesn't begin with you, there's no hope for the church. Now, you might be saying pastor, I'm not the senior pastor in my church, but I would love my church to move towards disciple making6:16 ministry. But how do I get my senior pastor to buy in? The only way you can do that is by praying for him, That the Lord will touch his heart. That the6:28 Lord will give him that grace to recognize this and see the critical need. Maybe invite him to this conference. Maybe make him watch these sessions. See these sessions will be uploaded onto YouTube. You subscribe to6:40 our YouTube channel so that you can get the updates when it's all updated. Our YouTube channel is IDMC Movement YouTube channel. And when you go there and subscribe to it, you will get a6:52 notification when these are uploaded. Watch it together with your pastors. Give them the give them the give them the mp3 files so that they can watch it together or hear it together. Why this is7:04 important? Because unless the pastor gets a taste of what it means to be a disciple, and a disciple maker, it is very hard to reproduce within the church.7:16 Now, in my travel, and as a church consultant, I work with many pastors. And I recognize this 1 thing. Pastors everywhere work7:28 very hard. Pastors job is a hard job. In fact, it is probably a poorly paid job. But at the same time, there's so much demands placed7:40 upon the pastor. I think you would have heard me say this before, but I'll say it again. The pastor's job, he there's various hats he has to wear. 1 is there's a people work, there's paperwork,7:52 there's platform work, there's project work where he needs to raise funds and do things project work. Fifthly, there's philosophical work. On top of all these things, has8:04 to think about things. But 1 fundamental thing always gets neglected. The preparation of hard work. See, our heart can become so hardened8:16 after we do ministry and get disappointed and, and discouraged and disillusioned betrayal, lack of trust, and all these divisions and all this backbiting and gossip that goes on in some churches can harden8:28 the pastor's heart as a result, the preparation of heart work. Finally, it is not just that it's the prayer is the work. And those things get neglected. Now8:40 I do understand this. Now let me say in another way, There was a local fair that was happening in a local county. And in that local fair, there was8:51 different games. And 1 of the game was in this booth, where there was a bull. And the farmer was willing to give this bull to a person who wins this game. And the game was9:03 this, that you needed to do 3 things to the bull. You make the bull do 3 things. 1, you make the bull laugh, you make the bull cry, you make the bull run, then the bull9:15 is yours. So everybody tried and they can't get it to do that. A pastor went to that booth, and he said, let me give it a shot. So he went near the bull9:27 and whispered something into the bull's ear. As soon as the bull heard what the pastor said, the bull laughed. And then the pastor said something else and the bull started9:39 to cry. And then the pastor said something else, and the bull ran out of that booth. So the farmer was so surprised and he said, no 1 ever has done this. What did you tell9:51 the bull that it made it laugh, cry and run? The pastor said, The first time I said to the bull, how much I'm paid as a pastor. And the bull started10:03 to laugh. The second time I said to the bull, how hard I work as a pastor. And the bull started to cry. And the third time I said to the bull, would you like10:15 to be a pastor? And the bull ran. I know how hard it is. It is a thankless job. People are quick to criticize, but they are10:27 very slow when it comes to encouraging you. But can I humbly say this, the start the transformation always starts with the pastor? If the10:38 pastor's heart is not softened, and if the pastor's heart is not transformed and changed, and he doesn't do the disciple making himself, then it's very hard to bring it into the10:50 life of the church. There are 3 kinds of pastors that I've noticed. There are pastors who are complacent. They are complacent because11:02 of past baggages, past failures, past hurts, past wounds. So they don't want to rock any boat. They just don't want to do anything more. Nothing more, nothing less. Just the11:13 basic. Just go through the mere routine. Complacent pastors. Then there are pastors who are compromised. These are pastors who are living in sin living a duplicity of life. There is no passion. There's11:25 no fire within. The fire was long gone. The passion they had in the Bible College, the seminary that they attended, it's no longer there. They are not jaded. But then11:37 thirdly, there's not just a complacent or the compromised. But there is a group of remnant of pastors all over the world that are consecrated. They're the ones who are crying out to the Lord to say, Lord,11:49 do it in my life. Revive me. Give me that passion. Give me that divine appointment. Give me people that I can journey with. Give me the grace to input my life into others. Give me that12:01 grace. Hallelujah. See, when I see this, part of the problem is many times pastors are working in toxic environment. What do I mean by toxic12:13 environment? There are things that are happening within the life of the church that discourages them what things like what, that in smaller churches, people expect the pastor to do everything.12:25 In fact, the popular thinking in many Asian churches is this we pay the pastor to do all this work. So the pastoral team should do all the work. Can I humbly say this, you can't be so12:37 wrong? It's biblically wrong. The Bible says in Ephesians chapter 4 and verse 11, God gave some to be apostles and prophets and teachers and ministers and12:48 shepherds. God gave them to the church as a gift. To do what? In verse 12, it says to equip the saints for the work of ministry. See13:00 pastors are equipers, trainers, coaches, people are the ministers, the body of Christ need to rise up and minister to 1 another. But in13:12 many places, they expect the pastor to do everything. That's why you and I we need to come back to this place. So if you're in a church, where your pastor is so overworked and underappreciated, can you take a13:23 moment to appreciate him? And as a team, can you come around side alongside your pastor to know how to lighten his or her Lord, so that you can help him to focus13:35 on Jesus falling in love with Jesus and discipling others. So the first lesson is, who is in charge? The second lesson, a healthy church13:47 culture. What do we mean by healthy church culture, you must have the wisdom and courage to change a toxic church culture. I mentioned briefly, some churches have13:58 toxicity in their midst. Toxic culture, your culture could be either toxic or healthy. If it's healthy, things will flourish, People will rise up. People will walk14:10 into their destiny. If it is toxic, there's chaos, confusion, distraction, discouragement, dysfunction, defilement of sin, division. So what is how do you deal with it? The14:22 most important thing the leadership of the church should eyeball is the culture that is within the church. And there are 2 things that are essential to change the culture. 1, there must be a clarity.14:34 What is it that we want? What is it that we are aspiring to? What is the culture that we want to be prevailing in our church? The clarity around what needs to be14:45 done, how things should be changed. That clarity is important. If you don't have that clarity, get some input. Ask some pastors who have a church that is has healthy culture as the14:57 input. How did you do that? So get clarity first. The second thing is you need to have the courage. What is the courage? You need courage to change the toxic15:09 culture to become healthy culture. Because you will step on toes, you will offend some people. But you need to have that political will to make your intention turn into reality.15:22 Years ago, as I was reading about Steve Jobs, Steve Jobs was sacked from his company that he started. And then years later, when the company was not progressing well,15:35 they were losing market and they were not making enough money and they were barely going to survive, they invited Steve Jobs to come back. And so when Steve became the15:47 CEO again of the company that he founded, He realized the complexity that was involved in the change. So he came up with a very simple strategy, only 215:58 S's, survival and simplicity. His strategy was we need to survive as a company. That means we need to not go bankrupt, but turn around.16:10 Secondly, we need to simplify our products and our process and what we are known for. In fact, he reduced the number of products the company produced from 40 to16:21 only 4. And that's a leader who has the clarity of what needs to change and the courage to change it. The rest is16:33 history. I want you to listen to me carefully. The hardest change is the change in a group behavior. See, I'm a person who walks with church leaders.16:45 And when we are working on a change management strategy, 1 of the things that we work on is this, there are 4 levels of change. 1, there's a change of16:57 knowledge. In other words, we need to change the mindsets of people by bringing fresh knowledge, new knowledge. Secondly, we need to change the attitudes of people.17:09 The first level of change is mindset, knowledge. The second level of change is in their attitude. It's in other words, what they prefer, their biases. Now once you17:20 deal with these 2 changes, the third change will happen change in personal behavior. In other words, this is where the leadership, the top leadership of the church, they will start to change17:33 in their behavior. Now, each 1 personally change. Then the fourth level of change will happen As they model as each 1 in the leadership team models the17:45 change, the group change will take place, the group behavior, the group culture will begin to shift. Now, this is where you experience an organizational17:56 change. So organizational change is not easy. It takes a good 3 years to change from a toxic culture to a healthy culture. Whatever you have determined18:08 as your church culture for you to implement it, it takes 3 years for it to really catch on and become part of the organizational culture. So don't give up.18:21 Start small and keep building it. Hallelujah. The third lesson is this personify the values. Move from championing the vision to personifying the values.18:32 In other words, don't just keep casting the vision. See many times pastors who meet up with me and they say, Pastor Paul, we tried this. It's not working. I told18:44 the people where we are heading, but it's not catching on. Can I humbly say this? Many times we are good at just casting vision, but18:56 we are not modeling that vision for people. 1 of the things I require in our church is that all our staff team, all our leadership teams are people who are not19:08 just echo and say what we are about, but they model it in their life. They are practitioners. They follow through with the disciple making as a19:19 core agenda. They are authentic in their own walk with Jesus, and they're helping others follow Jesus, That AD and ID. And that is important from every19:31 level. And part of that is is because of this philosophy. Example explains everything. And the most important way you can you can effectively influence another person is to19:43 leave them an example, leave them a model to follow. So this is important for you and me. Lesson number 4, the remove and replace principle. Don't disciple19:55 without first preparing the ground. See, this is very important, isn't it? Think with me. Imagine I want some clean water, and I take the clean20:06 water from from a source with a dirty bucket. Imagine what will happen if the bucket is filled with mud. My clean water has become muddy water.20:18 So what do I need to do? First, I need to remove the mud in the pail in the bucket. Imagine what if if the bucket has holes in it, then all of them will be all the water will be leaked20:30 out. So I need to patch the holes. In other words, you got to prepare the ground first, you got to remove the mud, you got to patch up the holes before you can start bringing water. The same thing.20:43 You want to do disciple making in the life of the church, you got to understand that our fault lines already, you got to prepare it, you got to look at the right climate when you are about to bring20:55 those things in place. That's why in our church, we deal with it through the breakthrough weekend, or the encounter retreats. From the young to the old, we do those retreats for 121:07 reason for men for women for young people. The reason is because it is not just enough to hear the word, we need to come into the presence of God and deal with the sin in our life.21:19 We have learned to live with a lot of respectable sins. You know, you can be you can you can be passionate for Jesus. At the same time, you could be21:31 psychologically broken and have some dysfunctions in your life, because areas of your life are still under the influence of the world, or under the influence of21:43 the secular value system. Listen, sin, we got to deal with it thoroughly. That's why in the breakthrough weekend, we always say this. When God breaks in and21:55 we break with that is breakthrough so we can break forth. Let me say that again. When God breaks in, when God breaks in with his word and we break22:07 with our sin, then there is breakthrough. So we can break forth and do the will of God. So 1 of the core things is prepare the ground.22:19 Take some time as a leadership team, Go before the Lord and process the word of God together. Study the word of God together. And let the word of God study you22:30 and come through to the place where you can be repentant before the Lord. And let's cultivate that brokenness, where the stripping of all self reliance, the shattering of our22:42 self will, and a softening of our heart before God to say, Lord, I want to give my life to Jesus. And I want to do his will. And when we can come together as a leadership group to do22:54 that, once we have removed and we have replaced it, things will start to take place. Lesson number 5, leadership mentoring. Expand your leadership base23:06 through mentoring. I want you to listen to me carefully. Imagine if I want to fill this table that is here with sand.23:18 Imagine this table needs to be filled with sand. And I want to pile it up higher and higher. How much do you think I can put on this table? At some point, the23:30 sand will start to spill over. I can't put any more in, it will just start to fall off. But imagine if this whole stage that we have here,23:42 and I'm trying to fill it with sand, I would have more sand. The reason is because the base has expanded. This is the key I want you to catch. When you23:54 expand the base, you increase the capacity of your church. And the more you can expand the capacity, the more there will be spiritual multiplication.24:06 So what's the capacity of the church? What determines the capacity of the church? It is not how many life groups you have. It is how many life group leaders have you raised. So 1 of the core things that the church24:17 leaders have to eyeball is leadership development. How many people are you focusing on raising as leaders? So pastors, let me ask you this.24:29 Are you producing followers? Are you producing leaders who are producing leaders? 1 of the core things that as intentional disciple making pastor24:41 eyeballs is leadership development, leadership pipeline in the life of the church. Lesson 6, directional clarity.24:53 Unless the congregation does the how, there is no ownership. In other words, how do you build ownership? Not when the leaders say it, the leaders do25:05 it. But then they also encourage the congregation to do it. See only when you practice, only when you start to apply,25:18 only then you will start to take ownership. That's why the key is not just talk about it more, not just preach about it more, but start doing it and encourage your church25:29 congregation, your life groups to start doing it. Learn to invest your life in a few key individual whom the Lord has placed in your life.25:41 See, my wife and I, we were touched by the Lord 1 day. And as we were in the presence of God, we realized that we are surrounded by church pastors, church25:52 leaders, church members. We're surrounded by Christians that there are only a few pre believers that are in our in our life.26:04 So as a result, we cried out to the Lord. This is going back years ago. And we cried out to the Lord and we said, Lord, give us divine appointments with pre believers. And 1 of the things that26:16 the Lord placed in our heart is to start reaching to the people in our neighborhood, the people next door, living next door opposite. And over the years, my wife and26:28 I have intentionally invested time and resources by bringing these people into our home, our neighbors into our home, having gospel centered conversations. And by26:40 the grace of God, I can say this to you. Many have been added into the kingdom of God over the years. Now, this is important for us. We got to come before God and to ask Lord, give us26:51 grace. Give us grace to have divine appointments. The most important thing is we got to build that ownership, not just by casting vision, but by doing27:03 it. By helping them to do it. See, sometimes we are able to give them the destination. This is where we want to go. But we fail to give them the directional clarity, which is the next27:15 steps. This is how we do it. There are 2 questions I usually ask pastors in my consultation. 1, what is your disciple27:27 making strategy? I want them to articulate the strategy of disciple making in the church. The second question is, how do you know it's working?27:39 In other words, what is the fruit? What's the evidence? How do you measure whether it's working or not working? Now, these 2, I don't just ask the senior pastor or the pastoral team.27:51 I sometimes take time to ask the members of the church. See many years ago, I was in an airport in another international city. I was flying back from that28:02 place, from that international city where I have ministered in this large church. And at the airport, 1 of their church leaders recognized me from the weekend ministry.28:14 And he approached me and said, Can I ask you a question, pastor? What do you think is the vision of our church? So I turned around and asked him the same thing. He said, I couldn't tell you,28:26 because I don't understand it. So in I only had about 15 or 20 minutes before I board the flight. So I shared with him what I sensed was28:38 the vision. And he said, Pastor, this is divine appointment because my penny dropped, my eyes are open. I see it clearly now what my pastor has been saying for the last28:50 few years. I want you to pay attention to this. The reason I'm saying this is because it is sometimes we think that we have done our job because we have cast29:02 the vision. But what we have failed to do is, are people embracing it? Are people articulating it? Are people able to process it and say, yes, that's29:14 my vision, not just the church's vision, not just the senior pastor's vision, but this is my vision. Is that an ownership? Is that a clarity around the steps that they need to take? This is29:26 important. Lesson number 7, discipleship environment. See, we took a whole session to talk about this. There is no sustainability without a discipleship environment. There are29:37 twin focus when it comes to discipleship environment. 1, there's a discipleship training environment. And then secondly, there is a discipleship community. In other words, you and I cannot bring life29:49 change into a person. That life change happens in a relational environment where there is strong accountability. And that's why we got to focus on training people,30:01 as well as putting them into a community. 1 of the things that I have heard over the years has testimonies, testimonies from our Bible30:13 College. I think you know by now that we have a 3 year intentional discipleship training in our Bible College. Starts with ordering your inner30:24 world to leadership formation and leadership life. In this 3 year curriculum, we offer it for free for anyone and everyone. And over the30:36 years, many pastors have actually gone through these courses with us. When we were running it in our physical building in Sydney, Australia, we had many senior pastors30:48 from other churches who have gone through these courses as well. And many of them have said this 1 thing that stands out for them. It is not so much the material or31:00 the or the generosity of our church in providing this for free and but it's the people who are leaders, either the accountability leaders or people who come in to serve.31:12 They see their heart, they see their willingness to go the extra mile, they see that brokenness and the humility and their passion for Jesus and their passion for disciple making. Now, this31:24 is what they have noticed, and many of them have commented that to us. In fact, recently, a pastor from Europe got in touch with me. He said, Pastor Paul, thank you so much for providing these31:36 resources for free. My wife and I have gone through these materials. Now, this man of God is not just leading 1 church, but he is an overseer of31:48 churches all over Europe. And he said, Pastor Paul, I would love to take this materials and contextualize it to our church and to our leadership team and to all our churches in32:00 Europe. And I would love to do it. How much does it cost? I again humbly said this to him. It is something that we have been gifted by the grace of32:12 God. God has given it to us to steward. So it is free. Now, this is important for you to understand. The reason why we do our conferences free, our Bible College free is because32:24 we want nothing to stop you from learning and growing. We create intentionally these training environments. And we give you these training resources, so that you can form a32:36 community, maybe a few friends can come together and take a course and study it together. And when you do it, life change will happen. Because God's32:47 Word will bear fruit in our lives. Hallelujah. Lesson number 8, the dailiness of discipleship. Daily discipleship must32:59 supersede weekly discipleship training. You know, many times, discipleship training is once a week in the church environment. But what33:11 we need to emphasize is it's not just once a week input into your life, but it is a daily input into your life. How? By becoming self33:22 feeders, by cultivating spiritual disciplines, by study of scriptures, not only study the scriptures, but read it, reflect on it, record it in a journal what the Lord33:34 is emphasizing, and then respond to it in prayer. These are spiritual disciplines that needs to be cultivated. And this is something to encourage the church to become self feeders.33:47 And that's the dailiness of discipleship that you and I, we need to come back to. Jesus, the Bible says in Luke chapter 9 and verse 23, He said to us, deny yourself, take up your cross33:59 and follow me weekly. No, follow me daily. In other words, every single day, we take the word of God, we read it, we reflect on it,34:10 we record it, we respond to it. And we say, Lord, do that deep work in my life. Change me from the inside out. Give me divine appointments with people that you want me to reach. Grant me your favor34:22 and your goodness. Let me experience your favor. I want you to listen to me. There is a daily walk with Jesus that's necessary. And that dailyness we need to cultivate34:34 within the life of our members. Number 9, build depth. Think big, start small, build deep. Now this is a philosophy of34:46 an IDMC church. You think big, you start small, but you build deep. In other words, you think big, not think big is not means that you run your imagination wild. Let34:58 your imagination run wild, that you can imagine whatever scenario. No, no, no. Think big is because we have a global God. And this global God deserves a35:10 global vision. In other words, we need to enlarge our thinking, we need to expand our exposure to come to that place to have a global35:21 vision. That's why Jesus says go into all the world, preach the gospel, baptize people, teach them to obey the word of God. And behold, I'll be with you always. Nothing35:33 short of a global vision, glorifies a global God. Listen to me. You and I have to think big. But at the same time, we need to have the humility35:45 to start small. The wisdom to start small. Don't don't have a big footprint as soon as you begin. I want you to have the capacity to start small.35:57 Why? So that you can intentionally build depth. Now building depth takes time. It requires a lot of patience. This is where I36:09 want you to think about the difference with me. Sometimes people who join our church and has journeyed with us for some time, when they talk to their36:21 friends, the friends notice a difference. The friends notice that their lives are now deeper. In other words, they have the depth of understanding36:32 of God's Word, depth of applying God's Word and transformation of life. They've tasted the goodness of God and grace of God in bringing a change in their life.36:44 Their worldview has changed. Their value system has changed. Now, the friends will think that they have become deep. Now, this is where I remind my leaders. When others36:56 notice that you are deep, it could be because they are standing in the shallow ground and you have stepped into the waters and to them, you are deep.37:09 But can I humbly say this, you are not deep, you're just shallow, less shallow than your friend? The reason why I want you to catch this is because many times you think you have arrived, you're37:20 deep already, not you're not, you're just less shallow. There is so much more depth in the ocean. You have just taken 1 step from the shore. And you already think you're deep.37:32 You're not deep. You're just deeper than the shallow people. In other words, you're less shallow. There is so much more to explore and an experience in journeying with Jesus.37:44 That's why what is depth? It takes time. It takes the dailiness of discipleship and doing it every single day, walking with Him, following Him37:56 wholeheartedly, knowing Him, loving Him, serving Him, abiding in Him, becoming more and more like Him, your life will be transformed through time. In time, you'll be38:07 deep. In the meantime, you're not deep, you're just less shallow. Have that humility. Now I want you to recognize 1 more thing. 238:19 people can say the same thing. 1 is a person of substance. The other 1 is a mere echo. What gives the difference is 1 practices it,38:31 1 lives it out, 1 has testimonies, 1 has fruit, the other 1, just a mere echo. I hope that you don't become a mere echo, but38:43 rather grow in-depth and become a man and woman of substance. Hallelujah. So how do you do that? The only way you can do that is this.38:56 Many years ago, I was meditating upon how do I build depth in the lives of the people that God has entrusted to me in leadership.39:08 The people who are very dear and close to me, they are people in leadership together with us. This is the picture I carry. Imagine if a hose is39:19 connected to the tap, you open the tap, the hose is flooded with water, you put your fingers on the hose, and then you start to spray the water. And imagine there are bottlesShow more
Paul Jeyachandran
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