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Hope for the Heart is a worldwide biblical counseling, coaching, and caregiving ministry founded by June Hunt in 1986. We’re passionate about helping people
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Understanding Depression and Finding Hope 0:00 Wherever you are in your concept and your understanding of depression or in your experience of depression, we believe that God's word and some practical conversation can be helped.0:12 Welcome to Hope Talks. We're your hosts. I'm Haley Scully along with Dustin Anderson, and we wanna give you every reason for hope for every challenge in life because hope means everything.0:30 Haley, we are gonna talk about depression today. Yeah. And I as we've prepared for this conversation, there's kind of been part of us that hasn't wanted to talk about it.0:41 Right.0:41 It's depression. It's heavy. It's a hard conversation. But we've talked about a lot of other things. We've talked about anxiety. We've talked about mental health. We've talked about abuse here in Hope Talks. And0:53 so and scripture talks about depression and despair. We have Keys for Living book and a video course on depression as well here at Hope for the Heart. And so it is something scripture talks1:05 about. Might not use the word depression a lot, but it uses the word, you know, concepts of despair and sorrow and being kinda pressed down and crushed and things like that.1:16 Right.1:16 It's a big conversation. And so we're not gonna cover everything. We are not1:21 Thank you.1:22 Psychologists. We're not set1:23 that expectation.1:24 Psychiatrist. So we're not gonna get into too much of, like, clinical kind of stuff, but we do wanna speak to the reality of depression and the reality of hope, and kinda share some1:36 just what what's the thought the question that's been going through my mind is just where is God in our despair? Yeah. And there's part of me as I was just preparing and thinking through this topic and praying through1:48 it, there's this, like, almost, like, weird, almost morbid, but kind of hopeful thought, if you'll stay with me.1:55 Okay.1:55 I know there's, like, statistics on, you know, I forget what it is. You know, like, 1 in 8 or so people deal with depression on somewhat regular basis, and that might be a depressive episode2:07 or just kind of a more longer term thing. But there's a there's a part of me when I think about just the brokenness in the world, all of the things that can make us depressed and can bring us down.2:20 There's a weird part of me that just wants to say, like, it's no surprise that we don't get depressed all the time, that that's not, like, our default. Mhmm. There like, we just came out of a2:32 staff kind of devotional time where we were praying for and and talking about the the flood victims in Texas. And it got me thinking about the losses in my2:44 life, and just a whole bunch of other things that when you when you think about all of the different disasters and, you know, and and losses we face and also2:55 just sometimes the randomness of life or that we just feel down Yeah. For no apparent reason. Like, there's a weird part of me that's like, 1, it's no surprise that we get depressed. It's it's almost surprising that3:07 that's not, like, our normal or our default, but it's also, like, the grace of God that it isn't that way. Yeah. That we do still even though depression is real, and3:19 difficult, there still is this reality of hope, of God's presence, of joy, of laughter in our lives Mhmm. And and God's goodness3:30 and and family and friends and all of these things. So I think as we enter into the conversation, I kinda wanna acknowledge both, like, the reality of depression and its3:42 difficulty and Right. What it's like for some people, and I've prepared a couple things for that. But I also wanna acknowledge the reality of hope Yeah. And God's goodness and his grace for us. Because I think scripture3:54 speaks to both, especially in the Psalms where you see David and many others throughout scripture just being super honest about the reality of their heart and their4:06 soul and what what's going through their mind. And then at the same time, god's word speaks to just his his grace, his love for us in it. Right. He gives us permission to lament and bring those things to4:18 him.4:18 Yeah.4:18 And so kind of just acknowledging both the reality of of despair, of depression, but also the reality of hope.4:26 I think that's really good. I think, you know, part of our hesitation I mean, we talked about like you said, we've talked about anxiety. We've talked about all sorts of other, you know,4:38 emotional issues or concepts and topics, but both of us are like, oh, we don't wanna talk about depression. I think that's probably pretty typical of most people because4:50 how do we define it? You know, what is depression? Are we is this sadness? What does depression mean? I think, you know, even before we started this, we prayed that we would not be contrite. We would5:02 not be condescending. We would not overshoot what is our knowledge of depression. But many believers, and undoubtedly many people that listen to hope talks and even ourselves at5:14 times, are going to have periods of being pressed down or periods of depression, whatever degree or extent that that looks like in our lives. But I think that because the word5:26 and the idea of depression can be scary. Yeah. It's, it's just uncertain. How do you talk about it? But I like what you just said, because I think this5:37 is how we talk about it as believers. We're not going to there there's certainly the aspect right up front. There are absolutely in in the concept of counseling,5:50 we talk about being biological, psychological, social, biopsychosocial Emotional. And emotional. Right. Okay. So Yeah.5:58 I'm super smart. In there.5:59 So I'll throw in6:00 spiritual. Social spiritual. That was it.6:02 And then I'll throw in behavioral. Yeah. Sometimes you can just do things without6:06 Well, I'm gonna say that again because now I need to to log it in. In counseling, we talk about the whole person. We talk about biological, psychological, social, and spiritual. And so absolutely in depression, all 46:18 of those things need to be considered. There is absolutely biological reasons that doctors and health professionals need to look at. And so for people that are listening, if if they feel6:30 like they're in a time or have experienced extended depression that they just can't seem to lift, then see your doctor. So we aren't going to necessarily cover all the doctor things. So6:43 Yeah.6:43 If I were listening, I'm always like, you know, I've talked about being a little bit of a back talker. If I'm hearing something, I'm always thinking, yeah, but this and but this. So I just encourage people Yeah.6:55 Even as we share today different concepts, we're not talking about the biological issues, so you don't have to think, yeah, but this, but this, but this. I just would encourage people to listen to the conversation on7:06 depression, lean in a little bit, maybe to the resources, get some definitions, get some understanding. Don't be afraid to talk about depression or to listen about depression. And7:18 because, like you said, there are periods of depression, there is despair, it's demonstrated throughout scripture, but always there is hope. And so defining those concepts7:30 for people, maybe for those of us that wouldn't necessarily be in a clinical depression, but are in a season of being pressed down.7:39 Right.7:40 Maybe this type of knowledge, this type of of content and the context of it can be helpful for them. You know, that's why I just I always go back to thinking it7:52 was so smart of God. So smart of him smart guy. To use scribes to write his stuff down into a book. You know, if he had just been8:04 talking in the clouds all the time, but wasn't like, hey, Matthew, write this down. Mark, write the story down. You know, Moses, write down what I've just told you. If he wasn't telling these people to write it8:16 down, we have the record of hope available in our hands. So wherever you are, in your concept and your understanding of depression or in your experience of depression,8:28 we believe that God's word and some practical conversation can be helpful.8:33 That's good. I prepared some scriptures and just wanted to talk a little bit later about just what the Bible gives us in terms of, like, kind of understanding8:44 depression, giving us hope in depression, giving us purpose, all of these things. Mhmm. Because, yeah, as I've thought through this and prayed through it, I'm I just it renewed just kind of a love for god's word. Mhmm.8:55 Because it's it's 1 of those things where it's like I can't imagine going through grief or, you know, seasons where I've been just been pressed down9:05 Yeah.9:05 Without having that anger in my life. Having that whole person understanding, yeah, we're we're we're not gonna get too much into, like, biological9:14 Right.9:14 Stuff, but more in, like, the on the yeah. On the heart, the emotional, and the spiritual side of things.9:20 Now I don't have a song for depression. I will just say that early in the episode so people aren't maybe waiting for a song.9:28 Post a post a post.9:29 Okay. Okay. Those those are hope songs. Well, I might okay. I might have a hope song, but I don't have a9:35 Well, that's what's9:36 Oh, I'm so anyways. That's how I'm playing. Nope. I don't have it. I don't have it. But it is you know, here's what was coming to mind a minute ago. Like, trying to define depression,9:48 trying to understand what depression means when someone says I feel so depressed. When I what came to mind, I'm telling another Shawn Michael, my nephew story, who I like to call Shawn Bon10:00 Jovi. I don't know why, but that's what I always called him. So when Shawn was little, he learned the word actually.10:09 Yeah. And Overused word today.10:11 Yeah. But he learned it and well, bless his heart. Talk about overusing it. He used it at the beginning of almost every sentence there for a little while. And so the way he said it was actually, and10:22 so every and it was adorable. But so because he learned that word Yeah. He started to use it a lot. You know? Actually, you know, you'd say, Sean, what would you what do you want for dinner? And I'm making this up. This10:33 isn't it, but it's an example. Sean, what do you want to dinner for dinner? Actually, I would like, you know because it was a word. He had it. Sometimes I think we take these concepts. We talked about this a little bit10:44 in anxiety. We take these words, depression, and all of a sudden, we kinda self define, self diagnose. It's a word that we know, so we're using it all the time. Not10:56 every sorrow, not every time of sadness would necessarily be depression. Yeah. You know, which is part of, I think, the value of what our Keys for living11:08 offer people when we get the right language for things. And we've talked about this before, but I think it's super key in a concept. Super key. I didn't mean to have a pun there, but I did. I threw it out. But it's super11:20 key in the end concepts like depression, define it. Because you may have a season of grief. You may have a season of sorrow, but it may not necessarily11:32 be depression. So don't label yourself and don't label others with a word that maybe doesn't fit. So we don't have to go get master's degree in counseling to understand those differences.11:44 It's literally part of the template of our tools to help people have understanding, define it correctly. Yeah. What is it? What are the characteristics of it? What are the causes of it? That can11:56 help us relate to somebody's story when we understand what are the causes of depression, and then how do we apply God's word to it. So I think this concept in particular, even with both of us wanting to12:08 stay far away from it because it's intimidating, and we don't wanna overstep, and we don't wanna condescend, but we do wanna share hope on something that I know a lot of people struggle12:19 with. So definitions, characteristics, causes, steps to solution, and hope talks on depression. We're hoping that this might be a spark of some help and hope for somebody that might be dealing with this.12:31 A couple of good points there. There our language in general, I think, just as a culture, has become we've learned a lot of, just clinical and medical terminology12:42 Google, doctor Google.12:44 Over the last decade or 2. And so and we use those words kind of like, they've become so normalized in our speech that I have anxiety. I I I'm depressed.12:55 Right.12:55 And it it kinda loses some of the experience or what the reality is when it it may just be a funk that you're in13:03 Yeah.13:03 Or, you know, a grief that that as we were preparing this, that's what that's what I started thinking through was, like, where in my life was I dealing with grief and loss? And, like,13:15 sure, it's mixed in with kinda depression, but at like, just kinda separating those things out, like Right. It like, was it depression, or was it a response of of grief13:27 and loss and sadness Right. And, you know, things like that. And I think sometimes we can use that kind of language when it's just like, you might be really stressed out at work or13:39 burned out, and it's it's a little bit different than depression.13:43 Yeah. It's empowering to define it correctly. Yeah. Because, like, what's the thing about you know, I'm really I'm I'll use the word anger.13:53 Okay.13:54 Dang. Anger. Like, I wouldn't say I'm really angry, but what you actually are is you're tired, hot, or hungry. You you know? Like, if we can when we pull this concept out of depression,14:06 which can be so very real, it can be so very deep, and it can be so very painful.14:13 But if14:13 we can use an example pulled out of that of, like, I'm super frustrated. Oh, what I I'm actually hungry, and my body's reacting to that hunger, then the hunger that I'm feeling is making me14:25 frustrated and angry. But when I define it correctly, I can either try to manage my situation and that, or I can go have a snack. Yeah. You know, people use the joke about God telling Elijah to have a14:37 snack and a nap. You know? Like, He fed him. He gave him rest. So, that's why definitions and not defining things incorrectly or just assigning depression over14:48 us or over somebody, especially over somebody that we're helping. You know, if you come to me and I'm like, I'm a counselor or I'm a mentor or I'm trying to help you,15:00 and you come to me and tell me your story, and I'm like, well, you're just depressed. Yeah. The power of those words. I don't know what you're gonna go home and now start to say, well, I'm just depressed. I15:12 can't get this done. Or I'm I'm depressed. Yeah. You said that. Right now, I I can't go to work. Or I you start to sink into the label of it. And so, especially in15:24 lay caring for 1 another, for our friends, for our family, for people in our small group that we're leading, whatever that looks like, we have to be really careful on definitions and listen. You know,15:36 listen well to what the story is. And it makes sense that you're down right now that either grief has happened. This has happened. Yeah. But tell me what's going on. Are you sleeping? What's what's biologically15:48 happening? What's your support system? What's your, what's socially is happening? Where do you see God in this? What spiritually is happening? Like that's I think without going16:00 and getting a 3 year master's degree and then a doctorate in counseling, we can help people be prepared to have conversations about depression. Well, I wanna high 5 something. Okay.16:12 Thanks. Okay. But I'm just excited. We want people to have hope in these issues. We want people to have understanding and clarity. And after 15 years almost at this ministry, I've just seen light bulbs16:24 go on, and I hope that for people in this in particular.16:27 Yeah. Let me read the definition Yeah. We have.16:31 Okay. That'd be16:31 a good starting point. I made a list of, like, creative ways of defining depression just because I think part of my hesitation wanting to in in not wanting to have this conversation is16:43 because there's part of me, like, I I do want to capture, like, the like, I don't wanna be flippant about it, like you said. I don't wanna be, you know, trite or whatever.16:55 Like, I do wanna acknowledge, like, the the experience for people.16:59 And so I have, like, a17:01 a kind of a normal definition, but there's some other ones that I just kinda walked through that's a little bit more creative that captures the experience. And so I actually love in our key that we kinda give, like,17:13 a a really short definition and a longer 1 of depression is a state of being pressed down. Mhmm. Just as a very simple, like and we have that image of, like, if you put an iron on a pillow and you17:25 leave it there, like, the pillow is just it's pressed down. Mhmm. There's been pressure on it. Mhmm. And so there's, you know, days or seasons of life where, you know, it may not be a clinical thing, but17:37 we're just we've experienced a lot of pressure.17:39 And if there's a lot, June does a little demonstration of it. Yeah. Then if if it's a little bit, within when you take the iron off, the pillow just pops back up.17:48 Yeah. We're kinda made to kinda17:50 We bounce up.17:51 Bounce up.17:51 When it's been on there for a long time if the pressure kind of stays consistent, sometimes you stay pressed down.17:57 Yeah. You got that17:58 proof of17:59 your flow.17:59 That's yeah. That's right. It's time to get into18:02 the flow. That's a little bit more of, like, the I wanna say clinical depression, but, like, when you're just kind of when the pressure is when the iron's removed, so to18:09 speak And there's been a lot.18:10 You're still just kind of pressed down. And so in that sense, depression would be a persistent condition of deep sadness, hopelessness, or emptiness that affects how a person thinks, feels, or functions,18:22 impacting sleep, appetite, energy, relationships, motivation, and even your faith, you know, feeling distant from God or feeling alone. And so there's kind of, like, 10 or so characteristics. We can18:34 go into them later of just, like, the kind of classic signs and symptoms of depression of just that feeling of hopelessness Mhmm. Or or worthlessness, that kind of fatigue Mhmm. And things like18:46 that. And where it gets more serious is when it's kind of impacting your normal functioning and your normal life. Yeah. And so we can speak to that, but I think what we also wanna speak to is just that18:57 kind of general feeling of when we're pressed down19:00 Right.19:00 In life Right.19:01 And19:01 when we're just can't kinda get ourselves out of it. Yeah. Get ourselves out of the funk, so to speak.19:07 And so a couple of other kind of19:09 more creative ways that I I was looking up and just that people have said of defining depression is a fog that settles over your soul. That kinda speaks to the cloud. I've heard people describe it as,19:21 like, this this cloudy feeling that you just kind of can't see things clearly as you used to. Mhmm. Or, like, it's trying to, like, run underwater where everything's just kind of a19:32 little bit more difficult. Like, you just everything takes a little bit more energy. Yeah. I think Sheila Walsh said this. She said something like a wet blanket on your chest. Yeah. Like, just this19:44 heaviness19:45 Right.19:46 In in your soul that you just kinda can't you can't lift it off by yourself.19:51 Right.19:52 Or a couple others, like a dimmer switch on your joy where it's just kinda everything in your life is just kind of turned down. Mhmm. Like, it's just and you can't for for some reason, you20:04 just can't turn the dimmer switch the other way.20:06 Yeah. Yeah. Just ugh.20:08 Yeah. 1 or 2 more. A tiredness that sleep can't fix. Yeah. A couple of friends and family in my life have been depressed and that there's that feeling of just, like,20:20 restless exhaustion. You're tired, but you go to bed, you feel the same way when you wake up.20:27 You can't be restored. Yeah. Yeah.20:29 There's just kind of a it's always there. Yeah. And then 1 last 1, a crowded room where you feel completely alone. And I think that speaks to the relational aspect where you just kind of you you're tempted to20:41 withdraw or isolate because you just you kinda can't bring yourself to, like Mhmm. Be around people or even when you are, you're just kind of you're just not there. Yeah. It's not always there.20:53 Yeah. And so, yeah, I think some of those speak to just some of the experiences that people have of what it feels like.21:01 Right.21:01 And I think that's why I didn't wanna be flipping with it because it's like you can kinda define it21:07 hard feelings.21:08 Yeah. Like, you, like, you can kinda define it in a clinical way and say, oh, I need to take this vitamin and do this thing and do this. But I don't know. There's part of me that just wanted to acknowledge the reality21:19 of, like I think for some people, it's like, I just can't snap out of it. I can't, like I'm trying to do all the right things, and I just can't, like, move past it. I I can't Yeah. Fix the21:31 fog. I can't just kind of, you know, fix it. And I think that's what's difficult about it. And we mentioned this kind of when we were preparing was just like depression seems like 1 of those things where,21:43 you kind of acknowledge the end of your limits. Like, you, like, you acknowledge in some sense, I can't control this. Like, there are steps you can take and things you can do to kind of21:55 try and lift the fog, but there's some sense of, like, I'm doing all the right things, and I still feel this way. I just can't control how I'm feeling.22:05 Right.22:05 And so there's I don't know. There's something about that that's22:08 Yeah. I think Sheila was a great Yeah. Example because her depression was very much a clinical depression. Mhmm. Sharing kind of the depth of that and how she still22:20 is I'm not putting words in her mouth, but based on kind of on the story that she shared, it's not some it is something that she's addressing in her life each day.22:29 Yeah.22:30 She tackles it in the way that she's learned to tackle it. It's not that it's overcoming her all the time anymore or that the the depth of where it was before she was getting help, it seems like she's not at that22:42 place anymore. And so for her, there would be, you know, as for a lot of our listeners and a lot of people that when she spoke at Called to Care, man, I did get to give her a hug. I really liked her. What a22:53 lovely, lovely, lovely, lovely22:55 time really wanted to meet her.22:57 Oh, you22:57 didn't get to meet her?22:58 I got22:58 her booked though. Okay. Yeah. Well, she and her husband both were just absolutely a delight. Came and had lunch with us. Like, you know, some you can come right in before you talk or you can come in and spend a little23:09 time. And she came in and spent a little time, and I just thought that was beautiful and relational, and I really appreciated that. But she has 1 great testimony and story of dealing with depression from a23:21 Christ centered way when the depression is at its very depths. And then there are times where we experience seasonal things. We go through certain seasons of life and times of23:33 life circumstances that happen, or, you know, like I've shared before, as we get older at different seasons, but that is part of, I think, the part of the greatness23:45 of getting older, and which why I don't I'm not too worried about turning 50. Like, I'm here for it. I'm ready for it. But part of the goodness is looking back at those seasons where it did feel dark,23:56 where there were times of being pressed down, certainly, and being on another side of that and how God saw us through it. He doesn't always flip the switch and24:08 fix it. I've seen him heal in lives of my family and do amazing things. But part of encouraging others is saying,24:20 hey, I've been through that24:23 Yeah.24:23 In certain times and situations and circumstances in my life. I've been there and God was faithful. And maybe it was a year. Maybe it was 6 months. Maybe that they, you know, felt a certain way24:34 for 3 years. But as you get older and as you keep leaning into the Lord, you know, I always want him to I do want the snap a finger God. Like,24:46 I do want I do want the God that's, like, fixed, you know? Yeah. I have to confess that to him at times. And and I think part of even not wanting to talk about depression, we get really vulnerable in24:58 our own stories. Mhmm. I would I would not say that I have ever been a depressed person. I don't think depression is something that I, in particular, have25:10 struggled with knowing definitions of depression. Yeah. Have now I do I have had deep sadness. I've certainly had times of feeling hopelessness.25:23 Yeah. I'm gonna say it. I've said this to you and Christina even as we were preparing. I have never been at a point where I wanted to end25:35 my life. Yeah. You know, for anybody that is listening or, you know, if they have felt that way. I'd I've never felt that way, but I have absolutely25:46 felt that I didn't necessarily want my life to go on. And I know that that may sound not like too different Yeah. But I wouldn't gonna do anything about it. But there have been25:58 times of sadness26:00 Yeah.26:00 And times of feeling emptiness. And I'm sure that everybody in some degree Yeah.26:06 You just wanna Yeah.Show more In this video 0:00 Understanding Depression and Finding Hope
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