Skip to content Stress, Burnout & Finding Rest - A Conversation with Dr. Eric Scalise Oct 7 · 1 hr 6 min ...more
Stress, Burnout & Finding Rest - A Conversation with Dr. Eric Scalise
October 7, 2025 · 1 hr 6 min
Explore the impact of stress and burnout on mental health and self-care with expert insights.
Series Hope Talks Podcast Videos October 7, 2025 · 1 hr 6 min · Hope Talks Podcast Videos
Explore the impact of stress and burnout on mental health and self-care with expert insights. ...more Show the full description Show less Explore the impact of stress and burnout on mental health and self-care with expert insights.
Series Hope Talks Podcast Videos Support this leader Liking this video? Support this ministry.
Support this leader
Liking this video? Support this ministry.
Give
Support this leader Liking this video? Support this ministry.
114K followers
Hope for the Heart is a worldwide biblical counseling, coaching, and caregiving ministry founded by June Hunt in 1986. We’re passionate about helping people
114K followers
Understanding Stress and Burnout 0:00 Burnout is what's going on with you inside your heart and your head, and and stress impacts what's going on inside your body. And they both need you need to pay attention to that.0:11 Welcome to Hope Talks. We're your hosts. I'm Hailey Scully along with Dustin Anderson, and we wanna give you every reason for hope for every challenge in life because hope means everything.0:28 Hey, Dustin.0:29 Hey, Hailey.0:29 Guess what day it is? It's bring your boss to podcast day.0:33 Cool. I like that.0:35 Yeah. Yeah. It's bring your boss to podcast day and guest day here on Hope Talks. So tell HopeTalk, those that are listening, who we've got with us.0:45 We have doctor Eric Scalise with us today. He is the president and the chief strategy officer of Hope for the Heart, but he would first introduce himself, I know, as0:53 Donna's husband.0:55 So thank you. Thank you.0:56 Shout out to Donna.0:58 Thank you, Donna's husband, for being with us today. Yeah. Husband, father, we were just talking about, your boys, 2 combat veterans. Doctor Eric Scalise, he's been on the podcast before, and so1:09 there's longer introduction there, but just a wealth of experience over 40 years in the mental health field, helping churches, ministries, organizations, but also having your own practice as an LPC and LMFT1:22 and author of a couple of books, especially around, late counseling, addiction, and recovery, and also our lead course instructor on our foundations of care training course in a number of our coaching1:34 courses1:34 Yeah.1:35 With ICCI. And so today, we wanted to get into the topic of stress and burnout because this is 1 of your areas of specialty.1:43 I I do like that topic, and I guess bring your boss to work day is gonna increase some stress right here.1:49 Well, that's what I'm saying. A little bit. A little bit. But not burnout. We're not we're not quite there.1:55 Yeah. But yeah.1:56 This is this is actually an intervention, Eric. That's what this is. Okay. Gonna keep going. Let's go.2:01 We wanted to have this conversation around this topic because the world in general, I feel like I hear so often about just people being stressed, but also that word burnout has, I feel like, come2:13 into our vocabulary over the last few years. Like, people don't just say I'm stressed or I have anxiety, but we say stuff like I'm just burned out. And I think there's some element of that where it sounds like2:25 it's a way of communicating. I'm really just exhausted, but I think there's actually more to it than that. And so what I wanted to ask upfront is you have a lot of areas of specialty, as a2:37 counselor, but the first 1 in your bio actually is on professional and pastoral stress and burnout. And so I wanted to ask, what has been kind of your interest in this topic? How had this2:49 become an area of specialty for you? Was there is there a personal story, or or is it just something that as you kinda started in counseling years ago, you just saw it so much?2:59 Well, sure. I saw it a lot, and part of it is me just being a sheep. You know, I I, over the years, I I would have pastors come up to me and share3:11 different things going on or ask my 2 cents about something many times about things going on in their personal lives. And I'd done interventions with pastors and probably everyone3:23 listening has been in, church settings or ministry settings where you've had unhealthy, broken, stressed out, burnout leaders. And I remember having a conversation with the pastor,3:35 and we were I was actually doing a little, webinar on on stress and asked me the same question. I said, listen. I said, I'm not a pastor. I'm a3:47 sheep, and sheep like me need people like you to be healthy. Yeah. And I said, so that's part of the motivation. And then just in my on the professional3:59 side, I I spent 6 years on the Virginia Board of Counseling. And and 1 of the responsibilities we had to do is we had to listen to disciplinary cases. It was tough. I had to4:10 recuse myself from 6 different cases while I was on the board because I knew the licensed therapist and they were all believers. Mhmm. And every 1 of them, you could find4:22 a point of stress or burnout somewhere Mhmm. That before they cross that ethical line. And so I I I see it into profession. And, you know, I mean,4:34 I spent time, as a department chair at Regent University. So you're training therapists who are gonna be working on on this thing, but it's also about self care. You know, many4:46 professionals, the very thing they offer, they don't do a very good job on the personal side.4:52 I was gonna tell you, anything you say today can and will be held against you here in the4:57 Very good. Fair enough. Fair enough. But but, also, you you mentioned 2 words, Dustin, stress and burnout. And a lot of people think, is that the same thing? Mhmm. No. They're they're5:09 close. The people who are burned out probably have higher stress levels and people who are overly stressed experience burnout, but they're a little bit different even though they're often5:20 used interchangeably. When, when someone says they're burnt out, it's often like their emotions are more shut down. Yep. They, they get quieter. They, they5:32 lose energy. You know, stress is the opposite. Your emotions aren't, like, shunted down. They're amped up.5:40 Mhmm.5:40 You know, it it still impacts you, but I often say that burnout is what's going on with you inside your heart and your head, and, and stress impacts what's going on inside your5:52 body. And they both need, you need to pay attention to that. I saw a study 60 to 70 percent of every doctor visit is real, is stress related. Think about6:04 that. All the reasons we all go to, to a physician or a checkup or what, 60 to 70 percent, because stress also impacts the immune system and all kinds of stuff.6:15 You had mentioned people in kind of the helping fields, whether you're in ministry, pastor, counselor. Like, we don't tend to take care of ourselves as well. Like, why do you think that6:27 is? Like, even though it's like we have the knowledge of what we should do, why why is that just like a recurring thing that happens?6:38 People who feel called to care Mhmm. At various levels, pastorally, chaplaincy, counselors, coaches, whatever are often very people oriented. You know, they have a heart to care6:50 and, and they say to themselves, I have to always be strong for you. I'm not allowed to show that I'm struggling or whatever. So we let things7:01 slide. And often it's, it's just then too late and working around people who are hurting in pain can be draining. I mean, when you're list, when I was doing private7:13 practice and, and I was doing 30, 40 sessions a week, sometimes 8, 9 a day hours sessions, and you're hearing trauma and abuse and grief. And I7:25 just lost my loved 1 again. And listen, it, and if you're a caring person, it drains you and it can, it can burn you out a bit. And so you have to take some intentionality,7:37 I think, to take care of yourself.7:40 Yeah. I was talking with a coworker right before this, and she was saying burnout is 1 of those things you don't, notice until kind of after the fact. Is that kind of another way of distinguishing it from stress? Like,7:51 you kinda know when you're stressed, but burnout seems like 1 of those things where it's like, now I'm a little bit too7:58 Perhaps. Yep. But I think that has something to do with not being intentional to pay attention to symptoms or factors. You know, I just sort of ignore8:10 it. That's not me. Won't happen to me. I gotta be so I don't I have not been oriented to pay attention to the things maybe I should pay attention to. And then you're you're right. It it can,8:22 kind of sneak up on you. I mean, when's the last time any of us knew we had bad breath until someone came up and said, hello. Yeah. So we often don't see it8:35 ourselves and, and we have to be willing, which is 1 of the things I often say, if you're gonna take care of yourself, you better have a few people in your life that have the freedom to speak into you and say, hey.8:47 No. Yes. Haley provides that for me.8:50 She's rich in. Oh, that that's what it was. You had said that some of the cases that you were involved in, you had to recuse yourself because it sounded like the the counselor or someone had crossed9:02 some ethical boundary, but then you realized they had a marker of burnout. You get the whole case record,9:08 and you can read about what happened. So I know what facilitated Mhmm. That poor choice.9:15 Yeah.9:16 I had to recuse myself from those because I knew the person who was charged. Mhmm. And you can't, you know9:24 But the burnout kind of contributed it to the Oh, yeah.9:27 I would9:27 see it just as I read the report.9:29 That's where kinda I was going like, this burnout then lead to, like, a fallout in other areas.9:35 Yeah. Liquor defenses.9:37 Yes. And and we get to the point where we just don't care.9:42 Mhmm.9:44 I use this picture a lot. And, I was, I share this story. I was, on my way to Australia to speak at a conference, to over9:56 a thousand, mostly pastors on this subject of stress. And Haley, you've flown all over the world. Flying internationally can be stressful sometimes because you're trying to make connections. You certainly don't wanna10:07 miss your international connection. You're running. It was a rainy day. I had a delay already. I was flying out. It was just crazy. And so I finally got to the airport, and this was, like, a 10 30 at10:19 night flight from LA to Sydney. Long flight. Right? Yeah. And and I was stressed, and I sat down. I had something I was just reading just to kinda, and and you often hear10:31 the the flight attendants start their preflight stuff, and they walk through where the lights are and seat belts and all this. So 1 of the things they often say is if we were to experience the sudden loss of cabin10:43 pressure, oxygen masks will drop from the ceiling above you. If you're traveling with a small child, what are you supposed to do?10:52 Put yours on first.10:53 Put yours and and I, and I heard that, and it was kinda like the holy spirit just like, did you? And I'm like, oh, yeah. Put the mask on yourself first.11:04 Before you go teach it.11:05 You would think that that kid who's scared or less able, you gotta take care of them first. But the principle is you're in the better position. You need to take care of yourself for I often say11:17 to to colleagues and people in this space, you can't if you're always last, you won't last.11:25 Mhmm. Yeah.11:27 I didn't say if you're never last. I mean, sometimes you do, but if you're always last, like, if you never, then you're not gonna make it. Yeah. Yeah. I think.11:35 Yeah. Because there's that sense of, like, well, I'm serving others, so I'm doing I'm doing what the Lord wants me to do. And you can even point to a lot of passages in scripture to,11:46 like, affirm that. Oh, yeah. And it doesn't negate those things, but it's it can just lead to this constant, I need to put others first11:57 to Work while it's yet day. Right? I I need laborers. Go get you know what I mean? There's this sense, like, the time is ticking. It's short. Go. Go. Go. Yeah. But, you know, the scripture says I don't know the exact12:08 reference, but, you know, it says that Jesus often went to a quiet place alone to be alone with the father. I'm like, I can't imagine anyone in12:20 greater need. I imagine if for a second God was using us to heal people of cancer or AIDS, or we walked across the Red River to meet with the governor in Oklahoma.12:32 Thank you. Thank you for getting12:34 that down. For you, Hailey. Mhmm. I mean, would anyone be seeking us out, thrusting our, their loved ones in front of us asking, you know, it, imagine Jesus was probably hounded12:45 everywhere, everywhere, every day. And yet he intentionally said, you know what? I need to be alone. I need to be myself and I need to get with my father. If Jesus being fully God and fully man needed12:57 that, how much more do you and I need it? Yeah. So you're right. You we can say, I I can't, but Jesus didn't say that.13:06 Yeah. You know, we're talking about just people called to care and kind of that aspect of it. That's who we get to speak into a lot. But also just, you know,13:18 anybody, anywhere. It seems like stress is just super normalized at this point. So I'm gonna ask you kind of a weird question Okay. And it hasn't come to mind before, but, like, the idea13:30 of false stress. And so what I mean by that is we all have busy schedules, you know, and sometimes just having13:42 4 things to do in a day, all of a sudden, we're defining that as stress. I think we've almost, like, normalized stress to the point where just having a schedule, and I'm not13:53 trying to belittle, we we absolutely get stressed, but when everybody in the world says they're stressed, I just wonder if we are defining just having a14:05 good day's worth of stuff to do if we're overkilling it with stress. And maybe that's a little bit uncaring. I don't know. But that's what do you think about that?14:15 I think some people can go there. Stress and burnout for me is like when people talk about things like grief or depression. It's like we've all experienced grief, we've14:26 all but these things are continuums, Right? Mhmm. So someone might say I'm stressed, but they're at the low end of the continuum. Someone else is darn near a panic attack or14:38 shutting that. So I'm I'm always trying to assess where are you on that continuum if you're using those words, 1. And 2, I also recognize how I might define stress or grief or loss or14:50 depression and how an event might impact me may not impact another person as as much. So I try not to minimize because I might sit here going, well, that's not stressful15:02 for me Mhmm. That it's not stressful for the other person.15:05 Right. Right. And not in an effort to judge it in them, but sometimes and and I think that's 1 thing that that our keys do really well, even as we've talked about, like, definitions, characteristics, causes, steps to15:16 solution. Helping people understand those definitions sometimes can be empowering15:22 Sure.15:22 Not to minimize, hey, that's not stressful, but, hey, you've got this. Yeah. You know? Like, here's your skills and here's the, you know, you you've got this. And if because I think15:34 if we're always defined kinda like a learned hopelessness or learned helplessness, You know, if we're defining everything as stress, then we start to even lower15:46 ourselves and not feel empowered. Like, I've got a schedule today, and I can tackle it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's 1 thing. I just think sometimes that if15:58 everybody is talking about it, then I'm wondering if a definition has gotten a little bit whitewashed that we might have a little bit more power. Now I think you're right, and that's what I that16:10 was gonna be my next question. I just said I think you're right. I want that noted in my Well,16:15 hold on.16:15 Yes, sir.16:16 For a16:16 legal question. I was can16:17 we actually just create a a slide on the COPE Talks radio to16:23 I think you're right. Yeah. Because my affirmation of right is really what counts. You know? But what are some of those warning signs? Like, whether you're a a counselor or a mom with your16:35 kids or, you know, a man just trying to get through his job each day, what are some of those stress signs that's gonna lead somebody to burnout?16:44 You know, there's there's eustress, it's spelled e u s t r e s stress. You know, you stress, I stress, I stress.16:52 It's the everyday, like, I gotta get up. I gotta go to work.16:55 I gotta study for that test. Yeah. It's just everyday. Jesus said what? In this world, you will have some tribulation.17:03 Yeah.17:04 But be of good cheer. So we all it's just the nature of life and17:08 There's just stuff to do every day.17:09 That's right. Given where technology is, we're on a we live in a fast paced push button, instant everything world. It's like, forget carpe diem. It's carpe manana. I want tomorrow, today.17:21 And so we live in a world now that is stressful. Mhmm. Probably much more than our parents or grandparents did. So when eustress17:34 becomes distress, that's when it can become, in fact, impactful. Mhmm. Everyone has eustress, but not everyone is distressed. So what you begin to see, like I17:46 said, is, again, burnout will hit you emotionally, cognitively. Your emotions are blunted. You're tired. You don't you might feel like a lack of energy,17:58 but stress starts to impact your body. You might start feeling tight in the chest and almost near panicky if, if that's going on. Yeah. You're, you're gonna have problems with sleep. You're gonna have problems maybe with18:09 appetite. It begins stress speaks to the body more than it speaks to the mind of the heart. So, you know, you have to, again, be intentional and say, okay. It doesn't hurt to talk18:21 to someone. Mhmm. You know, maybe even see a doctor if it got to a point. Like I said, 60 to 70 percent of all doctors' vistas are stress related. So doctors18:33 are at least tuned into asking some questions that may be helpful.18:39 I like I like those words together. You can be stressed, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're distressed.18:46 Right.18:46 And having people that's a real practical thought. If you're feeling, I've got a lot of stress, then asking yourself, it is this leading to distress, and what would some characteristics of that be? And that18:58 might help people do a bit of self evaluation of where am I, and do I need to check-in? Do I need to I know I'll go ahead and say, I do think you're you're good at this. Even though19:10 there are days where you might encourage the things that are on my plate to do that would cause a new level of stress, but all good things. And that's 1 thing we19:22 say. You know, we're really busy, and it's all good things. But even really good things can lead to a little pressure. And a couple weeks ago, you know, we've had some really big events going on. I wouldn't say burnout19:33 in the negative sense. I mean, I think that's like let's Fatigue. Yeah. And and and you were really good to me. You were like, work from home this week and, you know, take some time to kind of prepare for a19:45 couple of the events that we had. Because we do have a lot Yeah. Going on up here, and I really appreciated that. So I'm saying it out loud to everybody.19:53 Well, this is another slide.19:54 I know. I know. Put this. But but I really appreciated that because normally, Eric, I'm gonna try to handle my business. Right. You know? Like, there's those memes20:06 about moving and trying to carry your couch yourself. We've joked about that. I'm not really good at that because I'm like, I've gotta take care of it. And that week that you let me work20:18 from home, I tried to not turn the TV on that week. I wasn't trying to be overly weird. I was like, I don't need any more sensitization. Yeah. You know? And I sat on my balcony, and I read books, and I'd really tried20:29 to embrace the time, and it was so helpful. Not everybody can do that. No. But they might be able to do that in bits and pieces in a way and just recognizing the impact. I get cranky, I think, as20:41 you know. Like, I he said These20:43 are all so good.20:44 I know. Well, you've been I I I'm not gonna sit here and talk about it and be like, miss hypocrite because Eric will call it spillage when yeah. I do spillage. Do you. Like,20:56 it when I'm kind of at my top and we've got a lot going on and I and it it we work really closely, so you kind of see that at times before others do because it's mad. Nobody21:08 else can ever tell when I feel a little but I just I appreciate that. I think with others, you practice what you're teaching them.21:17 You you put the oxygen mask on yourself for a week or 2. There there's a Canadian endocrinologist. His name is Hans Selye, and he is often credited21:27 made all those words up. I did.21:29 Endocrinologist. His name's Hans Selye. He's often seen as the father of stress research. Oh. Here's his definition of stress. The nonspecific response21:42 of the body to any demand. Now think about that. His definition of stress is I can't even specify it. You're saying, well, what are the symptoms like? Yes.21:54 To the body of any demand put on it. That kind of tells me that almost anything, at least has the capacity to cause some stress Mhmm. And or burnout in a22:06 person. So Yeah. You're talking about a pretty broad thing. You know, 1 of the what you just said, Haley, reminds me to 1 thing I often say to people is in managing stress and burnout, you,22:17 you might have to reinsert that 2 letter word. Our moms and dads work real hard to drive out of our vocabulary. No. No.22:26 I'm not even, I'm not even gonna hear that right now.22:29 I know.22:29 Just as a demonstration, I don't hear it.22:31 Time does not manage us. Time controls us.22:36 Yeah.22:36 We have to take control of our time. If you looked at my, calendar or whatever, you'd say, Eric, can I recommend a good therapist for you? Because it looks full and busy all the22:48 time.22:49 I would like to say that. Okay. Give me a22:52 That's gonna be edited out of the podcast. But, but if you saw certain things, you go, oh, you've blocked out time for yourself.23:02 Mhmm.23:02 Listen, people love to make their crisis your crisis.23:06 Mhmm.23:07 Right?23:07 That hurts my feelings.23:08 I'm so and and there's time I, I really didn't wanna turn this into a counseling session, but okay,23:14 we'll go there. And I'm gonna charge it, for you're charging me. Never mind.23:18 But, but, but we, we, we have to discern and sometimes we have to say no. Cemeteries are full. I didn't say seminaries. Yeah. That's23:29 cemeteries are full of indispensable people. Listen, if a pastor had the best sermon he ever prepared and God decided before Sunday, you know what? You and I are gonna, I'd like to hear23:41 that in person.23:42 Yeah.23:43 Mhmm.23:43 You know, would somebody fill that pulpit? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I still adjunct a little bit. If I had papers or tests to grade and God said, nope, we're having dinner tonight. Would somebody finish the23:55 class? Probably. If we were counseling someone and something happened and that person really need it, would they find somebody? Yes.24:03 Yeah. Perspective.24:05 We have to manage our schedules, and sometimes I'll just say, you know what? Here's my next open slot. More often than not, they'll flow with you than fight you over it.24:16 We just have to get comfortable with saying no. And, you know, make the adjustment.24:23 So when I'm feeling stressed at times, and I'm just gonna this is all hypothetical. K. Okay? This is all very hypothetical. First of all, also, if for me to hear no, it really helps ifShow more In this video 0:00 Understanding Stress and Burnout24:34 Practical Tools for Managing Stress47:03 Hope Together: A Call to Refresh and Equip57:15 Final Encouragement and God's Grace in Stress
Comments No comments yet. Start the conversation.
Comments
Keep it kind. Comments are public.