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The Devastating Impact of Pornography on Individuals and Marriages 0:00 When we talk about sexuality, often we define Christianity in terms of behaviors. Like a Christian doesn't look at porn, a Christian doesn't cheat on their spouse, a Christian doesn't sleep around, whatever it might be.0:11 It's the wrong definition of Christian. If we want true change in our behavior and our struggles, it has to start with identity.0:28 Welcome to Crazy Little Thing Called Merits. I'm doctor Greg Smalley.0:32 And I'm your faithful sidekick and wife, Erin Smalley.0:35 You are.0:36 Yes. We have another great show for you today. Coming up, we're gonna share a recent poll that reveals the top 4 things couples fight about. Do you think you're gonna get it?0:47 I'm gonna quiz you.0:48 Oh. So0:49 I do apologize. Looked ahead.0:53 Plus, we're gonna answer an email question from a listener who feels that her spouse doesn't have enough faith in the relationship to make it better.1:01 And we're so grateful that our listeners trust us with these personal questions. And we hope that if you have a question that you'd like us to comment on, that you reach out through our show notes. We have1:13 a brand new and easier way for you to send us a question. So go ahead and check that out. And, Erin, you're right. We've got some great content coming your way because we're gonna continue the conversation that we1:25 started last time with doctor Julie Slattery. She's the president and cofounder of Authentic Intimacy, and she's written a book called Surrendered Sexuality, How Knowing1:36 Jesus Changes Everything.1:39 So today on the second day, what I would love to delve into and again, I said on the last episode that you always have insights that just challenge me and enrich me. And a topic1:51 that I feel like we cannot miss talking to you about is pornography and the impact that it has on both on the individual as well as the marriage. Mhmm. Because as a marriage counselor, I see the2:03 devastation that comes from it. But let's start with the individual. Mhmm. How does pornography impact the individual? Yeah.2:11 Well, I said on our our last conversation that sex is never going to be a neutral issue in a in a person's marriage.2:20 Mhmm.2:21 But I also believe that's true in a person's relationship with God. Mhmm. That sexuality and sex will never be a neutral issue. It's either going to be an aspect2:33 of your life where you've experienced healing and just wisdom and love and joy, or it's gonna be an aspect in your relationship with God where there's a barrier.2:44 Mhmm. And for a lot of people, shame sexual shame is the barrier, and pornography Mhmm. Is sort of a culprit of that of you know, I think2:56 Christians know pornography is wrong. Mhmm. You know, they might say everybody's doing it, and it's not that bad. It's not like sleeping around. Or I just can't stop. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. People that know it's3:08 wrong would say I can't stop. Right. But I think we gotta start with the fact that there are very few Christians who who don't have a sense of this probably isn't God's design for my sexuality. Mhmm. But I feel3:20 tremendous shame. And to your point, I can't stop. Right. And so I don't feel like I can truly be loved by God, used by God. I doubt his3:32 power in my life if I have this sin that maybe I've promised to stop engaging in many times, and I find myself back there. I pornography teaches you to3:44 objectify other people, which doesn't feel good. Mhmm. It promises something that it doesn't deliver in the long run. So it gives you3:53 Such an imitation.3:54 Yeah. A short term sense of peace and excitement, but then you're left with a bigger hole Yeah. Which can lead to discouragement and depression. And so how does it impact the4:06 individual? Like, there was a a pretty large Barna study that was done last year, and they were researching Christians and pornography, which the numbers are staggering.4:18 Mhmm. I would it doesn't surprise me, but I think they would surprise the average person how many men and women are struggling with porn. But there's a high correlation with depression, self loathing,4:30 sexual dysfunction, problems in marriage. And so pornography is not good for you. And, obviously, it is gonna impact individuals differently. But in4:42 general, we can see that it's really bad for your mental health, for your relationships with other people, and your relationship with God.4:49 Yeah. Mhmm.4:50 Yeah. There there's there's no real win there4:53 No. Yeah.4:54 Outside of that that quick dopamine hit Yeah. That you may experience. Yeah.4:58 Mhmm. So then play it out in the marriage. Mhmm. How does pornography impact a marriage?5:03 Pornography impacts a marriage before you even get married. And I think that's what we have to understand is that most people start using pornography in their early teen years, and that is5:15 when the brain is particularly malleable to brain circuitry and wiring. And God could design the adolescent brain that way so that they could learn so that they can learn really5:27 quickly. Mhmm. They can learn languages and math and all of that, and so their their brains pick up on things. And so when an adolescent sees pornography,5:39 is exposed to sexual things in today's day and age, you know, spicy books5:44 Mhmm.5:44 You know, those sort of erotica, they start forming neuropathways that are very powerful using dopamine and something else, another neurotransmitter called PEA that's associated with5:56 sexual novelty.5:57 Mhmm.5:58 And then adrenaline, and that mixture is really powerful. A lot of people would say it's as powerful and addictive as, like, cocaine could be.6:08 Right.6:09 And so that adolescent learns that I can go back to this whenever I'm feeling bored, whenever I'm feeling curious, whenever I'm feeling depressed or sad or lonely.6:21 And so for a lot of kids, they learn to cope with life through pornography.6:25 Yeah. And they're overwhelmed Yeah. Seeing what's going on.6:28 Right. So then they get in a romantic relationship and they start thinking, okay. Lord, this is your answer for me. Once I get married, I don't have to struggle with this again. Right. Might work for a few6:40 days, for weeks.6:41 Few hours. Yeah.6:42 But what they realize then is that their brains have been wired to respond to something that is completely unnatural. Mhmm. And the best way I could describe this is if you have lived for the last 56:54 years on manufactured food, Like, you're eating Twinkies and Doritos and donuts and, you know, all the things that have,7:03 Had Doritos for lunch.7:04 There7:04 you go. There you7:05 go. Yeah. Okay. I'm not 78 toes here.7:08 Just a few. Is that right?7:09 Little Debbie. Yeah. So just a few. Right.7:12 And if it's such if that's your steady diet, you can feel full, you know, for a short period of time, but you're not getting nutrients.7:21 Mhmm. And7:21 I'm hungry right now.7:22 Are you? I'm sorry. Proven to be7:24 There you go.7:25 But your brain is is now used to high levels of fat and sugar and salt. Mhmm. And so you go over a friend's house, and they offer you grilled chicken7:37 breast or broiled salmon and broccoli Mhmm. And fruit for dessert. You might be polite, but you're like, this Yeah. Nah. This is We're stopping7:46 at 30 Yeah. There you go. We're stopping at Baskin Robbins on the way home.7:50 So this is what happens when you've been using pornography and you try to engage in married sex instead of your partner's body just being,8:02 like, intoxicating.8:03 Yeah. Mhmm.8:04 It's like, oh, yeah. You don't look perfect. And instead of getting a sexual response exactly the way you've trained yourself to get it, now you have to be patient. You have to understand the other8:16 person. You have to respond to them. And it is not fun or exciting compared to what you've been using. And so sure you've seen this happen in married couples8:28 where they're they're not gonna talk about this, but they're both gonna be frustrated. And maybe give it some tries, but 1 or both of them will say it's just easier for me to8:40 take care of my own needs and revert back to using pornography instead of working on intimacy in the marriage. And I think even as Christians, pornography trains you to go8:52 into your marriage and your sex life thinking like a consumer8:56 Mhmm.8:57 That I'm married now. I deserve sex. Mhmm. You know, like, your job is to make sure that I am sexually fulfilled.9:05 Right. Mhmm. So I'm not tempted.9:06 Yeah. And that means I need you to do this and this and this. And so things are introduced into the marriage relationship that are uncomfortable or unhealthy or unwholesome Mhmm. Because9:19 that's the only way somebody knows how to get aroused. Mhmm. And so it just kinda spirals from that there. You find your spouse looking at pornography. You feel betrayed. Mhmm. You don't know if you can9:30 trust. Mhmm. Yeah. So9:33 this is the secrecy. It like, as you were talking,9:36 just Mhmm.9:37 That I'm sneaking around doing this. Hope to god she doesn't find out, see this. Right. Yeah. And how that impacts intimacy and trust and just my willingness to be seen, to be9:49 known, all of that.9:50 Right. And then if it's a husband using the pornography, the wife is feeling like I can never be enough.9:57 Yeah. Mhmm.9:57 I can't compete with this. Mhmm. Why should I even try? Mhmm. So she might shut down and feel insecure, rightfully so. And Mhmm. A lot it feeds on her body10:09 image issues, and it's it's a mess.10:12 Mhmm. Thus, all the lies that that Satan's gonna Yeah. Attack us around in our minds10:17 and write them on our hearts. And then the husband might say, well, I have to do this because you aren't meeting my needs. Right. And then she feels like she's in a double bind of either I don't do anything and10:29 I'm complicit in his porn use or I have to engage in duty sex, and it has nothing to do with me. It's it's just about me being an outlet for him.10:39 Yeah.10:39 And, unfortunately, there's so many Christian marriages that can relate to that dynamic. Mhmm. Mhmm.10:46 What about for that couple who is introducing porn or maybe some some some other things into the marriage bed to where both people are fine with10:58 it. Great. It's not like you're describing, Julie.11:01 Mhmm.11:02 We we both see this as a way to spice things up in our marriage. What about that? How Yeah. How does that impact?11:09 Sure. I can understand why couples wanna do that, because, again, the the neuroscience is that there is a different chemical reaction in the brain Mhmm.11:21 Between normal monogamous sex and new and exciting sex. And so couples can start to believe the only good sex is if there's neurological11:33 fireworks going on all the time. And so that means we always need to be introducing something Yeah. Dangerous, exciting, off limits. Right.11:40 Yeah.11:41 But what you have to realize is that that is that is a goal that you will never achieve. It'll always require more and more and more. But Yeah.11:49 So where you draw the line Yeah. And then you're right back to where you started11:52 Mhmm.11:53 While you've introduced all this And toxic Right.11:56 Stuff to make sense. Also understand that even if it's an image, you are bringing somebody else into your sex life.12:06 Yeah. Mhmm. Into this covenant.12:08 Yeah. Mhmm. And so, ultimately, that's going to erode trust. Like, if you if we're doing this in our mind, what's gonna keep us from doing this in the flesh? And, obviously, you you can't get12:19 excited enough just by being with me. We have to introduce somebody else.12:23 Yeah.12:23 And so it might be a a quick fix, but, ultimately, it undermines intimacy. Mhmm. That's good.Finding Hope and Freedom from Pornography Addiction 12:30 So is there hope Yeah. For that couple who 1 or both12:34 Mhmm.12:35 Started pornography use 12, 13 years old. They want, sexual integrity in their marriage. Yeah. They want a great sex life.12:44 Mhmm. What do you say to them? Yeah. They're 100 percent is hope. But here's what I'm gonna say. You can't halfway pursue it. And what I've seen a lot of individuals and couples do is they're like, yeah.12:56 I really don't want this in my life or my marriage, so I'm gonna confess it, and I'll go to a bible study. But they don't radically pursue healing13:08 and freedom. And, again, because of the neurology and the spiritual battle that all this involves, You are not going to be able to say, I'm getting rid of porn and just do13:19 that on your own. And you're not going to be able to rebuild healthy intimacy without fighting for it. Right. And so what it requires is really getting to the place where you are13:31 so done with the destruction that porn is wreaking in your life Mhmm. That you're like, whatever it takes, I'm gonna do it. And the best thing to do is to reach out13:43 to ministries that actually do this full time. And they they have men in recovery. They have women in recovery. They have been couples with recovery. There's some great13:55 ones, some that I'll name. Pure Desire is a really well known 1. I see. Like, there's a lot of them. There's ministries that are for the spouse dealing with betrayal trauma,14:07 but you have to get, like, real accountability. It can't just be, oh, my my friend and I have coffee once a week, and we just say, how you doing? Like, you that's not it.14:17 Yeah.14:18 You gotta do the work of really digging in. When did I start looking at pornography? And what is it doing for me? How is it serving me? Mhmm. And what wounds is it covering up? Mhmm. And how do14:30 I actually go on a sexual fast so that my brain can be retrained to respond sexually to my spouse? And how do we work through the betrayal? How do we rebuild the trust? And, again, there14:42 are lots of resources that can help you on that process. Yeah.14:45 What would you say then like, what's the big difference between you you kinda were talking about this, but, you know, a a recovery program that who are doing it right, you name several. Like, what's the difference14:57 between man, they're doing a good job because of these reasons. Yeah. Avoid maybe some of these others because they're not doing15:04 what15:04 Right. Yeah. I would say, first of all, being in group is powerful.15:11 Okay.15:11 Mhmm. And the research is showing this yeah. That for a lot of people, sexual addiction is really an intimacy disorder. And this is particularly true with men, that they don't know how to15:23 be vulnerable with other men. And they have to learn to be vulnerable with other men before they know how to be vulnerable with their wife. And so, the research shows that men who will be15:35 in kind of a confessional community like this Mhmm. Where they're gonna get real and honest and talk about what's going on in their life Mhmm. Like, they have a much better chance15:46 of recovery and wholeness in the future and wholeness in the future and wholeness in relationship. So that's 1 of them. Second of all, they know the terrain, and they know all the15:58 tricks and techniques. Mhmm. So heard it all. Yeah. I mean They've16:01 heard all16:02 the things.16:02 Been in bible studies and and quote, unquote accountability groups where Mhmm. You know how to ask the vague question and you know how to answer. Well, it's been a rough week. Mhmm. You know? Pray for me. Mhmm. But these16:13 kinds of groups are gonna go, okay. How many times did you look at porn this week? Yeah. Mhmm. How many times did you masturbate? Let's talk about it. Another very important part of this is it's not performance16:25 based. And so there are some counselors who would just be like, we're just grading you on how you answer that question. And, honestly, the goal should not be to get off porn.16:38 Like, you're let me pause there. The goal has to be that I am becoming whole in Christ, Mhmm. And I know how to be vulnerable and honest, and I know how16:50 to build authentic community and relationship. Mhmm. Building connection. Yeah. Yeah. Because when it's only behavior focused, you might be able to self control that behavior better than you used17:02 to be able to, but you still have unaddressed longings and wounds that you're probably just gonna shift to another addiction17:09 Mhmm.17:09 Or you don't know how to enter into healthy sex then. There are a lot of guys who will go through some form of recovery program, and they're off porn. But the way they got off porn was totally shutting down their sex17:21 drive Mhmm. And they don't know how to engage in healthy sexuality. So these programs have a combination of the knowledge, a grace based approach17:32 It is addressing the whole person is what you're saying.17:34 Yeah. It seems17:35 to be such an important part of that healing recovery.17:39 Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah.Show more In this video 0:00 The Devastating Impact of Pornography on Individuals and Marriages12:29 Finding Hope and Freedom from Pornography Addiction17:39 Embracing Identity in Christ for Sexual Wholeness25:25 Building Lasting Marital Intimacy and Eternal Perspective
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