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In this video 0:00 Restoration Through CrisisComments No comments yet. Start the conversation.
Restoration Through Crisis 0:00 I was defined by a single point of failure in my life. Nah. Hey. It was a failure. Move on and and let's see the grace of God through this. No. You're a failure, and you'll never be able to do this again. So that was the0:11 narrative in my mind playing.0:13 Yeah. And same thing. But what helped us, as you can tell, we were not good for each other.0:18 Yeah.0:18 We could barely, you know, get through a day without, you know, hurting 1 another with words. That was when it was so so important for us to have those mentors in our life speaking life0:30 into us.0:38 Welcome to Crazy Little Thing Called Marriage. I'm doctor Greg Smalley.0:42 And I'm Erin Smalley. Today, we're gonna talk about coming back from crisis in your marriage. Something that we absolutely need to talk about.0:51 Yeah. Because we all go through those hard moments, seasons. We'll have certain things happen that launch the marriage into a crisis, or it can be a crisis1:03 that's been years and years and years in the making and kind of drifting apart. But either way, yeah, all of us have to deal with with crises in our marriage. So when you're, Erin, dealing1:15 with a couple in your counseling office Mhmm. So they're going through crisis, why why can this be so hard to kinda come back from a crisis?1:24 Mhmm.
1:25 Ironically, I've had so many of those conversations even just today.
1:29 Wow.
1:29 And, you know, you think about betrayal and trust and how difficult that is to build. Of course, we look at trust a little bit differently than probably the average person,
1:41 but that's something that needs to be attended to. The vulnerability of if trust has been broken, how vulnerable is it to put your heart back out there? But then
1:53 if trust has been broken through infidelity, the person who has had an extramarital affair, the shame Yeah. That's there often keeps them the enemy keeps them bound up.
2:05 Resentment, I mean, all those things can be such a challenge.
2:09 Yeah. I think about it, as you said, just when we go through these hard hard moments, it's easy to put a wall up Mhmm. Kinda to protect our hearts. We can shut down and and start to
2:20 become hard hearted.
2:21 Mhmm.
2:22 And I know for you and I, you know, what, 5 years into our own marriage, we've talked about this. We went through really hard season, just kinda reached this place. So probably our hearts were both Mhmm. Not just shut
2:33 down, but but pretty hard hearted. And that's that's
2:36 a spirit place to Even the first couple years, there was pain. Yeah. And conflict was not being managed well. And, yes, it definitely impacts both individual hearts.
2:47 Yeah.
2:48 Later, we're going to share some random marriage definitions that we've gathered. That'll be fun. And by the way, you can send us your marriage definitions at any time. We love featuring our
3:00 listeners on the podcast, our people. Then we're going to answer a listener's voice mail question on allowing ourselves to be vulnerable again after being hurt by your spouse, exactly what we were just talking
3:12 about.
3:12 Yeah. We have today with us Monte and Janine Mora. So their their really, their mission is to come alongside couples who are married as coaches
3:27 Favorite Marriage. Monty has been in pastoral ministry for the past 28 years, and he currently serves as pastor of marriage and family at the Ascent Church in Monument, Colorado, some neighbors
3:39 of ours. Janine is a middle school social studies teacher. I don't even know what that means. I couldn't tell you what social
3:47 studies studies?
3:48 Yeah. It's like history.
3:50 Yes. There you go.
3:51 Yeah. Well, let's just say
3:52 history teacher. Yes.
3:54 And she gets the privilege of serving alongside her husband as well. So we started the interview by talking about their love story.
4:01 I'll let Janine go because I think she can share the more accurate conversation.
4:05 Good. Good. Well, Martina, yeah, we were in the same ministry when we were young, teenagers, and we were in the youth ministry together. And we did youth ministry for a while.
4:16 We did some, leadership together in ministry. And I went off to college, and Monty was the youth pastor at the time, and we, were separate
4:28 for a little while. And I say that when he realized I was gone, he realized he was missing what he needed in his life. So, he did reel me back in from college, and we,
4:40 started our relationship after that.
4:43 Nice. So it was quickly once you were separated distance wise, you just you realized that, man, this girl, this is what I want.
4:53 She came home for Thanksgiving break after her first year of college. And I looked at her and I said, the flower has bloomed. Yes. And asked the question
5:04 He didn't say that
5:05 to you. Yeah. He
5:06 didn't even
5:06 notice his exact words.
5:08 Thinking that on the inside.
5:09 And I remember asking her, like, just to start the conversation about maybe dating. I said, well, I don't think we ever dated before. And so that was the conversation. Yeah. Before you know him, that was it.
5:21 Because she said you were so mature. You had so much
5:24 growing up
5:24 to do. I actually
5:25 didn't like him very much. I thought he was very arrogant. And but I loved him as my youth pastor, and I I valued his input in my life. And I'm matter of fact, he sat across
5:37 the table and and helped me through some really bad relationships. And and I think the same relationships and we never thought of each other.
5:49 Right. And so that's why he said, why have we never dated? I'm like, I don't know. We might need to try that when I I go down.
5:56 To try that?
5:57 Yeah. When and when I went down, yeah, for Thanksgiving, yeah, we went with some friends. We we went as a group. But he went he moved really fast because we went to a movie. And in the
6:09 movie, he started feeding me chips. Like, mind you, my youth pastor popcorn. Feeding me chips and just I'm just like, what is this guy doing?
6:18 Because she was hungry.
6:20 I knew that. She was hungry. Yes.
6:22 But that was it.
6:23 You can hear the stomach rumbling.
6:25 Lay's potato chips. That's what started.
6:28 So that's now your your anniversary treat. Right? That you just sit around and
6:33 feed each
6:33 other chips. Some Lay's potato chips. Yeah.
6:37 So then you end up getting married. How did early marriage go for you guys?
6:42 Wow. It was it was crazy because when we got married September 1 95, we I was pastoring single, our first church. I was the lead pastor of our first church. I was 24. Janine was 20. I
6:54 was already in full time lead pastor role. Wow. And so, obviously, we don't suggest that to anybody out there now, this day and age.
7:03 Especially your children. Right?
7:04 Especially your children.
7:04 Right. Yeah. No. Yeah. Being that But wait.
7:07 So which part of that? Sorry. No. Which which part of that do you not recommend? Just the young age or what what what was like, Aaron was saying, what was the big challenge there?
7:18 Getting married and being in ministry, full time ministry right away.
7:22 Uh-huh.
7:23 So not having that opportunity like most couples, they have a year, a couple years to really focus on their marriage, real really build their marriage. We didn't have that. We had the the burden not the
7:34 burden, but the the responsibility of pastoring an entire church trying to take on a new marriage as well.
7:40 At such a young age. Yeah. And we also didn't have premarital counseling. So that was huge. Like, we came I came right out of college. We started working together in youth ministry again. Our senior
7:52 pastor moved to another church and basically handed him the mantle and and asked him. And he came to me in the middle of our wedding planning
8:02 and said, this is time.
8:04 This is what's happening. And are you are you good with this? And, I mean, I've loved him. I love the Lord. And I said, why not? You know, let's do this. And, you
8:15 know, we we did not I mean, we started off well.
8:20 Yeah.
8:20 I mean, a lot of people said, like, the first 2 years of marriage are the hardest. Mhmm. I feel like we did not feel that. Like, the first 2 years of marriage
8:29 lazy potato chips. Yeah. Yeah.
8:31 For sure.
8:32 And it was I thought was good, but little did we know, it seemed good Mhmm. But there was things falling
8:41 apart,
8:42 you know, behind the scenes because we weren't investing into each other, which
8:46 Mhmm.
8:47 Is the lead into our Yeah. Our crisis 5 years in.
8:51 Yeah. So talk about that. Because I remember that from our our time
8:55 Mhmm.
8:55 Just eating, sharing a meal together.
8:57 Did you have chips?
8:58 They weren't Lay's. So I think we did have though some chips. So that's that's our thing now. See, I'm included in this.
9:06 I'm not gonna salsa involved in that.
9:08 Yeah. Chip passion.
9:09 Chip and chips and salsa.
9:10 So it sounds like, yeah, the first 2 years, although starting a new marriage with, you know, the shepherding in a church, certainly, could see where that could provide some Yeah. Some difficulties. But it
9:22 it it sounded like there were some things that weren't happening that led ultimately, right, to to a really hard season for you guys where you hit a real crisis. Kinda walk us
9:34 through what what happened.
9:36 Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, man, so the crisis that happened 5 years into the marriage was there was this perfect storm brewing in the background. So our our
9:48 youthfulness Mhmm. Taking on full time ministry. We had 2 children, 1 child, 2 years of age, 1 under 1. So diapers and, you know, the whole thing
9:59 Yeah.
9:59 Trying to learn how to be young parents. Yeah.
10:01 All
10:02 of this, we are we were young. The lack of communication, the, financial strain, being in ministry young. I mean, there was a lot of these things, unhealthy temptations,
10:13 lack of sexual integrity, a lot of identity. We were trying to
10:19 find our own identity.
10:20 Yes. Yeah.
10:20 20 somethings or tried to figure that out anyway.
10:25 Yeah. So all of those things converge to where we are 5 years into the marriage, also into the pastorate to where we crashed. We we realized that we cannot do that. And it came to a
10:36 point to where we had to resign our church and, we resigned our church, ended up moving away. And we took the next 2 years to go through some healing and some restoration in our own marriage relationship.
10:49 But, it was it was tough in that context as well because when you're when you when you go through a marriage crisis and and you're not in a in the public eye, it's a little bit different. But when you're in the
11:01 public eye as a pastor in ministry Kind
11:03 of in the fishbowl.
11:04 You're in the
11:04 fishbowl. Yeah. Everybody's looking, watching, noticing.
11:08 And when we went into our healing time, in the church where we were looking for that healing, they didn't know how to even treat us because we were pastors within their
11:19 region. And so the way they looked at us was so different. And then it was just, like, people didn't know how to approach us and talk to us Mhmm. When we needed people the most at that time. I remember 1
11:31 service we were sitting there and I was so broken and just crying in my seat and thinking, how are we here? We gave our lives to God and we surrendered and we said yes. Like, how are we here?
11:43 And a lady tapped me on the shoulder and I thought she was gonna reach over and pray for me. And she asked me if I could go work in the nursery because I because they were short staffed.
11:53 Oh gosh.
11:54 And I got up and I for crying. Yeah.
11:56 Yeah. But
11:57 We need
11:58 to help
11:58 in the nursery. Need.
11:59 Yeah. So,
12:01 that was the point. We got up. I got up. I went and got our 2 babies, and we walked out and never went back. Wow. And maybe that wasn't the right way to leave. I know that wasn't I look back now and
12:13 we think we did so many things wrong, and the grace of God just still carried us to the right place to get healed. But, yeah, that's I mean, the things like that where it was just you you
12:24 know, people just see you as so strong. Mhmm. They both they are pastors before. She can she can take care of a few toddlers. Yeah. Yeah.
12:34 It's your duty.
12:36 So through that season of healing, what did that look like practically? What did you guys do intentionally to pursue healing, both individually as well as in the marriage?
12:44 Yeah. Well, we we attempted to have a couple sessions with our with our pastor, up in Denver. And it was at a point to where they just kinda looked at us and
12:56 said, this is not our forte. We we don't know how to help Mhmm. You know, you ex pastors, which you guys are going through. So they referred us out
13:08 to a marriage resource to a beautiful, beautiful marriage ministry, beautiful couple. Yeah. And it was that marriage mentor couple 1 and 2 and the marriage course that really did the deep
13:20 work that really for the next 14 weeks, we really dived into that. So it was through, just the personal work that God was doing in our lives, learning how to how to communicate properly, which we we
13:31 never really learned that as a young couple. We we we had we learned how to have a hard conversations about life and even our past, things in our past that we brought into the marriage that really impacted what
13:43 the marriage what we're going through. Yes. Forgiveness issues, trust issues. I mean, there was a lot of different personal things that we had to work on, but, ultimately, it was the the
13:55 marriage course we were going through and this beautiful marriage ventures God brought into our life.
14:00 Oh, man.
14:01 Without them, without having them in our life, we don't know if we would have really made it through that journey.
14:07 Yeah. Well, hearing their crisis and what they went through is what gave us hope. And they went through, we feel like, way worse than that. At the at the time, we're like, well, wait. If
14:19 they went through that Mhmm. We can get through this. And I I think, you know, that's what kept us moving forward as they were willing to be open and transparent and say, this is what our life looked
14:31 like. This is what God did, and he can do it for you. And, I mean, we wanted that healing immediately. I remember sitting with that couple and the wife turning to me and she says, this isn't
14:43 gonna happen overnight. And I looked at her and I was like, but why? Because this hurts so bad. Yeah. And I don't know that I can last a year or 2 years. And and, she looked at me and
14:55 you and just spoke to me and and gave me words of encouragement and said, you will. You can. And he's here for you. You're not alone. And just moment by moment, week by week, month by month, after
15:07 couple years, we were in the class. We started teaching the class that they they we that we went through. And, you know, here we are today, passionate about telling
15:19 our story so that people can have hope.
15:23 Yeah. Mhmm.
15:24 So take us back to, kinda that really that that heart season when things were really unraveling. You were both realizing, man, this is this is really
15:36 hard. Not sure what to what to do. Kind of as you look back, what you talked about communication certainly being 1 you've kinda mentioned. But what what else was going on for
15:48 you guys in the relationship, just maybe even individually? What what was really creating kind of that feeling stuck or just Yeah. Taking you down to depression? Whatever
16:00 it was.
16:00 Yeah. For us, it was misaligned priorities. Okay. So early on because we got because when we were married, we're already into the ministry.
16:10 Yeah.
16:10 Ministry became the priority, became the prize.
16:14 Yeah.
16:14 We found our identity in the titles of pastor, pastor, wife. And Yeah. And that and that became our our God, our mistress. Right? And so marriage
16:27 was put in the back burner. Then we introduced children into the mix. And now how are we gonna prioritize God, ministry, marriage, parenting, all
16:38 these things? So our priorities were out of whack. Okay. And I think because we didn't have the right priorities in place, that's when things started crumbling because we didn't have the good foundation. Right? And we
16:50 didn't know how to work through some of those things, not having premarital counseling. And here we were in pastoral ministry, not having have not having any type of premarital work on our own lives.
17:00 Yeah.
17:01 And so everything was just it was the perfect storm. But it was back down to, like, we just had our priorities out of order.
17:07 Yeah.
17:08 Yeah. And
17:08 then it sounded like through that. So priorities are misaligned, and then the talking about it sounded like it was really, really hard. Mhmm. Just didn't
17:20 communicate well through all that probably. Yeah.
17:22 Janine, what was that like for you as a wife, as a mom?
17:27 My identity was crushed at the time. I, for a young lady, 21 years old, just trying to figure out who I was Yeah.
17:39 And putting that putting him in the in a place that he you know, that for him to feed into me, like, who I am and, you know, his wife
17:50 and putting a lot of expectation on him instead of on God and finding that in in God. And I didn't do that very well. I didn't do that very well,
18:02 because I was so focused on what other people were thinking about me and, you know, just having women's meetings and and women telling me you shouldn't sit like that. You know? You're a pastor's wife.
18:14 And and I'm just, like, really just trying to figure out who is this? Like, who am I, and how am I supposed to act? And then I had children come in and, being late to
18:26 church and I would get the eyes and people would say something because the pastor's life was late to church. And I'm just trying to bring in a 2 year old and and Yeah. You're just surviving. Trying to survive children.
18:38 There was so much expectation on me, and I leaned to him to to help me and build me up. And it when when our world crashed, when there was that the mistress
18:50 and the, just the betrayal in that, it it crushed me, and I couldn't see a way out of it. I began to put I I began to
19:02 hate the church. I began to hate him. I began to hate anything about ministry. And I put all my focus on my children and I poured into them and then they became my number 1,
19:13 which still is not the right place because it's God, our marriage, and then our children. But that's where I lived for quite a while. Mhmm. And putting all my effort into to our kids.
19:25 I think
19:26 that's what kept you in the marriage too. Yes. It was. Our kids. You know, we always say to couples who are going through a crisis, find a reason, you know, any reason. And your reason was
19:36 Yes.
19:37 And her reason was the children.
19:38 Mhmm. Yeah.
19:39 Eventually, it had to the focus had to change from them to us. Mhmm. But that Yeah. That was pretty huge for you.
19:45 Yeah. My lowest low That's good. And I I thought about taking my life. I I actually tried overdosing on on pills. Thank God that he his
19:57 grace was there and he saved me. And, it was an eye opener to focusing on just me. I had to like the psalmist in Psalm 77 where
20:09 he is just all about me, me, I see this. I I've focused on all these things, me, and what's going on with me. And then there was that transition in the Psalm where he then began to fix his eyes on
20:21 God and what he can do. That was my moment. And I thought it's not it's not about just me and turned my focus outward. And it and then my kids were the motivation because I began to see, like, this is a bigger picture
20:31 than just, you know,
20:43 repentance and his willing to change and willing to refocus was also motivation. Because without that, I don't know that I'm gonna to refocus was also motivation. Because without that, I don't know that I could have
20:52 stayed. So both of us surrendering and saying, God, take our mess and make it a message. He did. He he did he has taken us through that journey. And and now
21:04 we have this big picture that we're seeing unravel even now in our later years is almost empty nesters. We still have 1 at home. Yeah. She came back. She flew, and
21:14 then she she flew back to the nest.
21:15 So She's back home.
21:16 But, in this season, we are we're seeing God's big picture just, you know, his faithfulness, his grace over us, and it's amazing.
21:27 I mean, usually through those really hard moments in our marriage, just the the the the inner voices. You've you've got Satan's lies. You know? This ain'tShow more
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