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When One Believes and One Wanders | S2E34 BEYOND I DO PODCAST
June 5, 2025 · 49 min
What happens when your spiritual walk is strong—but your spouse's isn't? In this raw and honest episode, Adam and Ashlee dive deep into the emotional and spiritual tension that arises when couples find themselves spiritually unequally yoked, even after marriage. They unpack the biblical responsibility of the believing spouse, offer encouragement from personal experience, and share tools to avoid bitterness, pride, and disconnection.Whether you're married to someone who’s lost their fire or you're the one who’s struggling, this conversation is packed with grace and real talk. It's not about dragging your spouse to church—it’s about modeling Jesus in the quiet, everyday faithfulness. Tune in for a powerful reminder that even when your marriage feels uneven, God is still working in both hearts.--Join our AFTER I DO community for Exclusive Content & community!www.afterido.app--Have a question about relationships? Ask us by clicking the link below!https://patria.church.ai/form/BeyondIdo_BEYOND I DO: MARRIAGE COURSEhttps://beyondido.thinkific.com/courses/beyond-I-do--Connect with Adam & Ashlee Mesahttps://instagram.com/amesa?igshid=YTQwZjQ0NmI0OA==https://instagram.com/ashleemesa?igshid=YTQwZjQ0NmI0OA==--Don't forget to stay connected with us: Instagram @beyond.idoTik Tok @beyond.ido--We've entered into an exciting new partnership with renowned jeweler Erin Barnett in Los Angeles. This partnership perfectly aligns with our love for relationships and jewelry. Whether you're looking for a special gift, an engagement ring, or a wedding band, Erin has you covered. And as part of the Beyond I Do community, you get exclusive discounts and the opportunity for a private showroom experience. It's time to celebrate your love with exquisite jewelry from our partner, Erin Barnett.How to get the exclusive discount?SEND HIM A DM and tell him you are part of the BEYOND I DO family or mention Adam Mesa. https://www.instagram.com/by.barnett/?hl=enhttps://bybarnett.com
Series Beyond the Letter June 5, 2025 · 49 min · Beyond the Letter
What happens when your spiritual walk is strong—but your spouse's isn't? In this raw and honest episode, Adam and Ashlee dive deep into the emotional and spiritual tension that arises when couples find themselves spiritually unequally yoked, even after marriage. They unpack the biblical responsibility of the believing spouse, offer encouragement from personal experience, and share tools to avoid bitterness, pride, and disconnection.Whether you're married to someone who’s lost their fire or you're the one who’s struggling, this conversation is packed with grace and real talk. It's not about dragging your spouse to church—it’s about modeling Jesus in the quiet, everyday faithfulness. Tune in for a powerful reminder that even when your marriage feels uneven, God is still working in both hearts.--Join our AFTER I DO community for Exclusive Content & community!www.afterido.app--Have a question about relationships? Ask us by clicking the link below!https://patria.church.ai/form/BeyondIdo_BEYOND I DO: MARRIAGE COURSEhttps://beyondido.thinkific.com/courses/beyond-I-do--Connect with Adam & Ashlee Mesahttps://instagram.com/amesa?igshid=YTQwZjQ0NmI0OA==https://instagram.com/ashleemesa?igshid=YTQwZjQ0NmI0OA==--Don't forget to stay connected with us: Instagram @beyond.idoTik Tok @beyond.ido--We've entered into an exciting new partnership with renowned jeweler Erin Barnett in Los Angeles. This partnership perfectly aligns with our love for relationships and jewelry. Whether you're looking for a special gift, an engagement ring, or a wedding band, Erin has you covered. And as part of the Beyond I Do community, you get exclusive discounts and the opportunity for a private showroom experience. It's time to celebrate your love with exquisite jewelry from our partner, Erin Barnett.How to get the exclusive discount?SEND HIM A DM and tell him you are part of the BEYOND I DO family or mention Adam Mesa. https://www.instagram.com/by.barnett/?hl=enhttps://bybarnett.com ...more Show the full description Show less What happens when your spiritual walk is strong—but your spouse's isn't? In this raw and honest episode, Adam and Ashlee dive deep into the emotional and spiritual tension that arises when couples find themselves spiritually unequally yoked, even after marriage. They unpack the biblical responsibility of the believing spouse, offer encouragement from personal experience, and share tools to avoid bitterness, pride, and disconnection.Whether you're married to someone who’s lost their fire or you're the one who’s struggling, this conversation is packed with grace and real talk. It's not about dragging your spouse to church—it’s about modeling Jesus in the quiet, everyday faithfulness. Tune in for a powerful reminder that even when your marriage feels uneven, God is still working in both hearts.--Join our AFTER I DO community for Exclusive Content & community!www.afterido.app--Have a question about relationships? Ask us by clicking the link below!https://patria.church.ai/form/BeyondIdo_BEYOND I DO: MARRIAGE COURSEhttps://beyondido.thinkific.com/courses/beyond-I-do--Connect with Adam & Ashlee Mesahttps://instagram.com/amesa?igshid=YTQwZjQ0NmI0OA==https://instagram.com/ashleemesa?igshid=YTQwZjQ0NmI0OA==--Don't forget to stay connected with us: Instagram @beyond.idoTik Tok @beyond.ido--We've entered into an exciting new partnership with renowned jeweler Erin Barnett in Los Angeles. This partnership perfectly aligns with our love for relationships and jewelry. Whether you're looking for a special gift, an engagement ring, or a wedding band, Erin has you covered. And as part of the Beyond I Do community, you get exclusive discounts and the opportunity for a private showroom experience. It's time to celebrate your love with exquisite jewelry from our partner, Erin Barnett.How to get the exclusive discount?SEND HIM A DM and tell him you are part of the BEYOND I DO family or mention Adam Mesa. https://www.instagram.com/by.barnett/?hl=enhttps://bybarnett.com
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492K followers
Adam Mesa is Lead Pastor of Patria Church and speaks to a congregation of 12,000 about how the gospel of Jesus Christ brings purpose to every life. Patria
492K followers
0:12 Sweet Jackie, bro.0:13 Thanks. Some cool kid got it for me.0:15 Yeah. I know. That's true.0:17 My husband got it for me. Oh. He said it was really cool. And so I said, oh, is it? He's like, yeah. This is the first ever collab with0:24 A Latino with Adidas.0:25 With Adidas.0:26 From LA. Something like that.0:30 I was gonna say something that probably would not go0:34 Yeah. They didn't have my size. So I was like, Ashley, this is perfect for you. You gotta get this. This is0:41 Yeah. Yeah. Well, I didn't they got the black and red ones. He's like, you should get these, and I could have. But I was like, I'm getting spoiled enough because you not only bought me this, bought me more stuff. Yeah.0:49 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.0:50 They had some more ripped up. Shoes with it, though. Yeah. They were it sold out, like, immediately, and we went to the spot in LA that had 1 jacket left in small, and I was like, oh, yeah. You gotta represent your last1:00 name, Ashley. You gotta be a messer. Messer. Messer. Messer. Messer. How's that go? Messer. Messer. Plata.1:11 You don't know that? No. Oh, what?1:13 I didn't know what you were. Hands on the table, hands on or hands in the air or something? Mess up. Mess up.
1:19 Mess Mess I don't know the words. I never know
1:20 the words.
1:21 You don't
1:21 know the come on, Nancy.
1:22 She's not Mexican. I'm not Mexican. I don't know
1:25 if it's a Mexican
1:26 song. It's not Mexican. She speaks Spanish. Wow. There's there's different there's different class. I know. Because you definitely can't call my sister-in-law Mexican because you cut me.
1:38 Nicaraguan.
1:41 Yeah, man. See, people are you know, that's the thing.
1:43 I was like, dang. Nah. I'm Puerto Rican. Okay. I'm sorry.
1:46 Latinos and Latinas, I know. They they're haters. They wanna benefit from the Mexican culture. They wanna go to all of our restaurants. They wanna eat all of our food. And then god forbid, god forbid, call them
1:58 Mexican. All of a sudden, it's, you know, it's the it's the most disrespectful thing in the world. Come on. Get out of here. Stop going stop eating our tacos. You are
2:07 not our own.
2:08 No. You don't.
2:09 Own tamales.
2:09 They're not good. They're not good. They're not Mexican.
2:12 You never try to go.
2:13 They're not Mexican. You drink our drinks. They're tiny. You have our popsicles, our Michoacanas. You have our corn.
2:20 You know what I just found out?
2:22 You you have our tacos.
2:23 What I just found out, which I could be wrong. I didn't read I you know, I don't read. I didn't I didn't read
2:28 I know that.
2:28 To its entirety. So but horchata horchata
2:33 Yes.
2:33 Is not Mexican. Someone said it's from Africa. Africa. So but I didn't finish reading. So I finished reading. Because someone someone was like, I'm in Mexico, and whoever
2:45 decided to drain some rice and put some milk in it, he was like, this is this is what I live for. Then he says, I said, it takes someone so
2:57 ignorant to say something like that. But he said and then someone in the comments was like, no. It's actually made it was made in Africa. And I was like, I I didn't research any further.
3:06 Yep.
3:06 Oh, 0 my gosh. I'll tear it up. Oh, yes. I'll tear up some more. I don't know if it's true, Nancy. I don't think that's true. Nancy. I don't think that's love it.
3:18 It's so good. Yeah. I was thinking you know, I'll never be ordering it at at the restaurants, and it's at, like, every restaurant that can do. Because I'd have a I will tear it up. It depends because there's some good
3:28 ones, and there's yeah. There has to be a good 1.
3:30 Gosh. Yeah.
3:31 That's true. But you just be drinking agua frescas like they all good. They gonna be tasting like water.
3:35 Hey, you put a mica in front of me. Oh, mica is Keep the pitcher.
3:39 You might as well just drink cranberry juice.
3:41 No. Don't say that. I didn't know that meant hibiscus.
3:44 I didn't know that meant hibiscus.
3:46 You you you fluent Spanish speakers. Don't be knowing. Nothing. Nothing. I forgot who I was. I think Erica or something. She's recently was like, yeah. I don't I didn't know those 2 were the translated the same way. I'm
3:58 like
3:58 What is it? And marate? Is it different?
4:02 Yeah. Yeah. It would be That was that? Right? Yeah. Like like the the see.
4:07 Yeah. The only thing I do with Nancy is I'll be like, is this a bad song or a good song? When I send her in Spanish, she's like, oh, no. That's bad. I was like, but it's got a vibe to it. Got a vibe.
4:18 That's always tough because I'll be listening to like a like a a Bad Bunny song will come on because I don't really listen to much secular music. But I'll play Bad Bunny and other stuff because I don't know what they're
4:29 saying. It just sounds good. You know? So the American stuff, I don't play because I get caught up on, like, what they're saying. But I don't know. I don't fully know Spanish. So Bad Bunny would be just be and I'll be
4:38 like, I'm gonna look into these lyrics. And I'll look them up and I'll be like, oh, never mind. Or I'll see the little explicit thing and I'm like, how explicit could be I'm listening to the song? Like, well, I don't
4:49 hear anything.
4:49 That's it. I didn't hear anything. These are not real bad words. I know bad words, and that's not bad words.
4:55 Yeah. I know the bad words. That's not bad words. I just I'm just being ignorant, and I'm listening to that kind of music.
5:02 A mess. Mhmm. A mess.
5:05 Alright. You wanna do what? But what?
5:07 Another thing. I was gonna say, oh, so now you're Mexican today.
5:11 Until until Nancy disrespected my people, yeah, I became Mexican really fast. Yeah. I get what are you doing using my cup? This is not meant to leave the house.
5:20 I know. And I Use your cup? Yes. So there's a magnet on the bottom so that, yeah, it just stays
5:28 when it's I got this little pool floaty at the at the house. And when you're when you're sitting in the pool, it has, like, a little it has, like, a little piece of metal in the, like, cup holder. So you put a magnet a
5:39 cup that has a magnet in it, boom, and it, you know, connects it to it. So I got a few different cups, and I told Ashley. She's like, this doesn't matter. Mine. And I'm like, yeah. It's yours when you're using the pool
5:50 floaty. You're not taking this out. We have at least 60 cups that same exact size.
5:57 And look.
5:58 And here it is. Here it is today.
6:00 She didn't share a lot of stuff? No. Well I
6:04 listen. Ashley doesn't share anything. I share everything.
6:07 Yeah. Yeah.
6:08 That's that's the deal, which is
6:10 Yeah. Like, if I want that shirt tomorrow, I'll put that shirt on and wear it oversized.
6:14 And it's no longer mine. I own nothing in life. Mhmm. I don't have a side of the bathroom. All our boy stuff is there. Their toothbrushes. I mean, even though they got their own bathroom
6:23 Mhmm.
6:24 I have no side. I I have I I I have nothing.
6:28 No space on the
6:29 bed either.
6:29 You woke up. You're like, my, man. I'm never doing that again. Yeah. Yeah. He was so mad when he woke up.
6:39 Yeah. So Alright. Yeah. Go ahead with the with the welcome.
6:45 Hey, everybody. Oh my gosh. This is yeah. Welcome to welcome to beyond I do with my beautiful self.
6:58 Alright. You don't gotta say nothing. I already I already already know.
7:02 I look good.
7:03 I already know. I already know.
7:05 You already know what?
7:06 You know, I don't have to say anything. I already know. Listen. I shaved today. I brushed I brushed my teeth. Finally. I did finally. Every day. Day. Every day.
7:15 I should you this morning if you used my toothbrush Yeah. Because it was wet.
7:19 I have 0 desire to touch
7:20 any any your stuff. If you didn't know, you'll find out today. Cavities are contagious, so don't share your toothbrush with your spouse.
7:27 I already know that they're contagious. Yuck mouth. I don't be touching yours.
7:30 I'll be touching I'll find out soon because that mouth of yours, I'll find out. If a tooth starts hurting
7:36 Nope.
7:36 You use my toothbrush.
7:38 No. I've been doctor Robby taking care of me. I'm good.
7:41 Do you have root canal? Mhmm.
7:43 No. That was something different. Was I have sensitive teeth. That's what they say. They say I have sensitive teeth. I'm sensitive to things. It's what it is.
7:51 Yeah. You are sensitive.
7:52 What it is. Yes. What's up, everybody? Welcome to Beyond the Doom. It's warm in here.
7:56 Do we got the little airy there? Hot. Oh, it's
7:59 not even on. I'm about
8:00 to take my jacket off. It's 76.
8:02 Oh, it's over there.
8:03 Girl, it's 74.
8:04 Pause the podcast.
8:05 Pause the I know.
8:06 It's gotta be yeah. It's gotta be. Our our babysitter, whenever she comes over the house babysitter, whenever she comes to the house, she comes with, like, jackets, blankets. Yep. Keep the house so remember.
8:16 She used to watch the kids, and she's like, it's freezing in here. Yes.
8:20 That sounds good. High. Yep. Exactly. Alright. Well, everybody, now we could do this. Now that we got the AC on
8:26 Yeah. I don't want cowlite intro. You do you have that podcast voice. Do it again.
8:31 Got a voice for radio?
8:32 Yeah.
8:33 It's like the Ryan Seacrest voice. It's not deep
8:36 Right.
8:36 But, you know, it's jovial.
8:38 It's nice.
8:39 Well, thank you so much. She's complimenting me today. It's the day. It's a nice day. It's gonna be a good day. Done. Welcome, everybody, to Beyond I Do. Thanks for joining us today.
8:51 Hope you've enjoyed some recent episodes we brought to you, and, we got, some guests coming up, in these next future episodes. Not today. Yeah. But, going into the summer, we'll have some, guests that
9:03 we'll be bringing in because that's kinda when we'll try to slow the podcast, at least our recording schedule a little bit because we record once a week. But when we go into summer, we kinda take some days off for summer
9:14 for with our boys and this and that. And so, we'll, record some kind of more interviews with some people. So we got a bunch of those scheduled. We got you know, some of our friends are coming out with a marriage book, a
9:25 chaplain to the chargers, his wife's marriage and family therapist. Gregory's are incredible. Mhmm. They'll be on a future episode. And, we got some other couples that we're going to bring on as well
9:37 that, we just love their story and, love them. So they will be on over this summer. So make sure you tune in. And, our goal over the summer too is to bring in some older voices. We just talked about it
9:49 today. So we'll have some some, very seasoned voices to speak into. Some of the things going on. What I didn't what happened was a couple weeks ago, don't think I ever told you this. Like a week ago, someone just
10:01 DM'd me, you know, because my my my millennial parent clip just keeps going. I don't even know what it's at now, but it just it just every day I open my phone. It's, you know, x amount more comments and this and
10:13 that. And so I got a DM with with someone that's older, a baby boomer, very angry at what I said about baby boomers. I didn't and I didn't even say it. I think if you list
10:25 relisten to the clip, like, I'm not saying, you know, so to say that I'm like, yeah. You should cut off your parents if they're not being good grandparents. I'm I'm I'm I'm sharing an observation of what's a reality in
10:36 the world right now, and millions of people across all platforms, tend to agree with it. And so Yeah. You know, it's just always good food for thoughts. Hey. Start inward reflecting like, well, this woman was very
10:48 angry.
10:48 It was a woman?
10:49 And yes. Yes. Yes. So, she was very she was very upset. And, you know, and then and she goes, and of all things, I found out you're a pastor. Shame on you.
11:02 And I was like, oh, you you you must have not heard. Go ahead and look at the rest of the episodes. You're probably not gonna be too happy with some things.
11:09 Absolutely.
11:10 So, yeah, we then I thought because of that, I thought, well, we'll bring, you know, it you know, we'll bring in some some of our older voices that we love and appreciate, and and and they'll speak to a lot of what's
11:20 going on right now in culture as well. I know our phones are ready radiating into the microphone. So, yeah, we'll have some great interviews coming up in the near future. Well, we
11:32 found a video that we thought we would share. This is a divorce attorney, and he kinda going back into intimacy. Know we've been on a couple weeks, but I know that a lot of people
11:44 I mean, it's I've just been getting so much feedback from people in these episodes. So, you know, it'll it'll be good just to observe and speculate from our time with couples that we've sat down with and stuff like that.
11:56 So, basically, if you don't know the premise, there's a divorce attorney. He's scaling 1 through 10. He's got 1 of his staff members on the other side. They're recording him, and they're bringing up, marital
12:07 issues. And he's rating the the he's rating the the what's the word I'm looking for? Like, the
12:17 Highest to the lowest?
12:18 Yeah. He's rate 1 to 10, but
12:19 Yeah.
12:20 The cause of a divorce. Right? Or the biggest implicator. Right? Obviously, we know, like, you know, divorce can happen for 1000000 reasons, but he's he's talking about his and he's a very successful divorce attorney.
12:31 It's all his years of experience, and I've heard this from multiple divorce attorneys. I've done sermon series on it years ago, which led me to get a book deal, you know, what was the data behind divorce
12:43 and how kind of astounding it is. We think that we, you know, we commonly think that, you know, divorce is specifically only attributed to adultery, which Mhmm. That could be a nail
12:55 in the coffin, but that doesn't mean that that's fully what what leads to it. Right? Mhmm. We talk about breadcrumbs all the time in counseling and and things like that. Like, just because something was expressed in
13:06 something doesn't mean that that that that was the the person woke up that day. There were breadcrumbs that led to, you know, a distant marriage. And so he's interviewed, and they list things, children, blah blah blah.
13:18 He gives scale 1 to 10, and and so I think it's very interesting on not only the topics that they agree. Now all of these things are in a a divorce that that they're that they're saying.
13:30 But what he is saying is, hey. There there are some things that are the loudest when a couple steps to divorce. And I'll say why I agree, you know, in years of counseling, marriage counseling, and stuff like that,
13:42 why I, you know, think he's spot on. He's obviously using, like, real data with the couples that he's processed in divorce, and I'm using, you know, counseling as that. But let's go ahead and play it as he will rate
13:54 the implicators of people that have caused and led them to a marital separation.
13:59 Too messy. 2. Different parenting style. 4. Infidelity. 9. Leaving the lights on. 2.
14:11 Unrealistic expectations about money. 6. Needing more alone time. 2. Disagreements over pets. 4. Disagreement over children. 5.
14:23 Substance abuse issues.
14:25 8.
14:26 Lack of communication. 7. Lack of intimacy. 25.
14:31 That's kinda crazy. Yeah. That's crazy.
14:37 That yeah. Yeah.
14:38 The lack of intimacy is 25.
14:41 Yeah. And it's interesting people's comments on it because I read a bunch of them where, you know, well, all of those things will lead to lack of intimacy. And, you know, like, you know, you're
14:53 you you you're messy. You leave lights on. We don't agree on kids. We don't agree on finance. It leads to lack of intimacy.
15:00 And No. I think that it the the all of those things to lead to the pettiness of not wanting intimacy. So that's more intimacy is held at its highest regard because that's the way that you hurt the pros person the most to
15:11 say, like, I'm gonna withhold this from you because you didn't do this.
15:15 Mhmm. Mhmm.
15:16 We've done many counseling sessions where a lot of wives are like, well, why aren't you intimate with him? Well, because he doesn't put his dishes away and he doesn't take the trash out. What? Because he doesn't do that,
15:28 so your reward so now sex and intimacy is held as a reward or held as a what is it? A bait.
15:35 Yeah. Yeah. Like a carrot.
15:37 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if you don't do this, then you don't get the reward. Marriage is not a casino game or an arcade game to where that there's a grand prize. If I beat every level, then sex is on
15:49 the end. And I learned that very quickly. Mhmm. Quickly and not quickly. Quickly with patience. Yeah. That I have. But I learned it quickly. But you learned it. But I didn't but I mine was mine was never the
16:00 clickbait. Well, like, if if you do this, you do this. Yeah. You get this. I don't
16:05 Yours wasn't in our arguing. It was it was kinda in your own own, you know, insecurity and insecurity and
16:11 stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah.
16:12 Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, that being said, like, all of these things aren't necessary cyclical, and that's the way people wanna treat it. Right. They they wanna treat everything as, well, all of
16:24 these things that don't happen feeds into this 1 thing. Well, no. It's intimacy is just another part of the pot. And you'll notice that he said, you know, he he adultery was a 9, intimacy was a
16:36 25, which means he even defines intimacy differently from sex. Right. You know? And and he's putting that on in a different category in it. So it's a 9. It's still high.
16:47 But this, you know, increase of putting intimacy at 25. And what is intimacy? I mean, it's on both sides. So intimacy is dates. Intimacy is
16:59 well, we we categorize it as as people of faith is, you know, we've said it before, which is, you know, spiritual, emotional, physical. And so that's what the intimacy makeup. So when they hear intimacy,
17:11 it's not just the husband quote unquote getting lucky. It's it's all around the intimacy approach of seeing each other, hearing each other, loving each other, caring for each other on a on a intimate
17:23 level. And so that's conversation. That's, you know, we are just talking to a couple this Sunday, and and they asked us they said, has has your marriage gotten better doing the podcast? And I
17:35 said, actually, truthfully, yes. Because for 1 hour every week, Ashley and I have to talk to each other, and it can't be it's not about the kids. It's not about what we want for dinner. It's not about what movie you
17:46 wanna see. I don't know what movie you wanna say. I mean, you and I for a year and a half, you know, almost what are we? Don't even know what episode this would be, but maybe if we you know, a year is
17:57 52. We never had a week off. So for the most part, if we're a year and a half in, we'd be like, I don't know it, like, 80, 70 something, you know, 76, 80. So let's just say in a year
18:09 and a half, you and I have had 80 hours
18:12 Mhmm.
18:13 Of uninterrupted conversation. Right. Even a hand
18:18 We're 33. So we're
18:19 33 to this year. So okay. Yeah. So 80. 80. 85. So 85 hours. So in in in in, 18 months, we've had 85
18:31 hours of uninterrupted conversation about like, literally almost nothing has been, you know, wasteful. It's been about everything under the sun. Yep. There's been just a handful of those that have been
18:43 with other people
18:44 Mhmm.
18:44 But also talking about our ourselves and them and so also us, you know, learning from other couples as well. But majority have been me and you. And so you look at that and you go like, yeah. I mean, you you have no
18:56 other option but to be healthier. And only on a handful occasions have you and I gone into an episode not good that day or arguing or maybe not even wanting to do that episode. Yeah. And
19:08 that's only happened a couple times, but that also forced us that, like, we had to deal with our our stuff, you know, knowing that we're, you know, going into into the podcast. So that is a version of intimacy. You
19:20 know? And at 1 hour uninterrupted, not watching our phones, not checking Instagram, you know, anything like that, that's gonna force your marriage Yeah. To be healthier. And I found,
19:32 you know, doing the doing this podcast to the degree that you and I are doing it regularly as we're doing it, it's 1 of the suggestions I make to couples in the past, which we still do. I say, you know, go on a
19:44 date night or whatever whatever, But we always find excuses around date nights and all that kind of stuff like that. Well, in the evening when your kids go to bed, you know, a husband and wife can go in the backyard or
19:55 go in a nook of the house, and you can have an hour of of conversation. Well, if you do that and and and I know some couples, they they watch this podcast together and then they talk about it and debrief about it. IShow more
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