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May 11, 2025 · 28 min · Season 9
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Authentic with Shawn Boonstra confronts life’s toughest questions head-on: What is our purpose? What is true love? Explore the depths of human existence and
81.3K followers
The Deception of Ashley Madison 0:00 I'm sure some of you probably remember this, but once upon a time, there was this internet company that told people that cheating on your spouse is a good thing. And today, we're going to explore the0:11 damage they did, and I'll show you why they were completely wrong.0:36 I don't know if you experienced the same kind of disappointment I felt back in the nineties when I realized that somebody had actually created a web based service that helped people cheat on their spouses0:48 on purpose. And in theory, they promised you would never get caught. I mean, don't get me wrong, I live in the real world just like you do and I have a pretty good grasp on how bad human1:00 behavior can be. So it takes a lot to surprise me, but this just felt like a brand new low. Now, if you're struggling to remember and a part of me hopes that you're struggling to remember this, you've1:12 never actually heard of it, but if you're struggling to remember, it was the website, Ashley Madison dot com. And at 1 point, it had well over 30000000 users. And I guess that's the disappointing1:24 part. There was a massive client base for a really despicable service. I mean, sometimes we have to explore gray zones on this show. We have to ask ourselves where the boundary1:35 between right and wrong is, but in this case, we have some really clear black and white issues. I mean, their ad campaign practically screamed the word slimy. They were telling1:47 people life is short, have an affair. That was their slogan. And the idea behind this business was that people who cheat on their husband or wife with a coworker almost always1:59 get caught. Something happens that exposes their infidelity. But this service, they said, that's gonna protect you. You won't get caught. And for a certain mister Darren j2:11 Morgenstern, the risk of getting caught seemed like a business opportunity to him. Now to make things even worse, at least from where I sit, the whole operation was born in the country of my birth2:22 up in Canada, which means that the squeaky clean reputation that Canadians have had over the years got something of a black eye. Although, I can assure you having grown up in that country, well, it's also populated by2:34 sinful human beings. I I guess I was just even more disappointed that it was us who created this website. Now, back in the day, the CEO, a certain Noel Biederman, if I'm2:46 pronouncing that correctly, he insisted that all he was really doing was providing an online service, and he had the gall to suggest that having an affair can be good for2:58 your marriage. In a 2009 interview with the LA Times, he suggested, and I quote, that Ashley Madison preserves more marriages than we break up. Some people say it promotes3:10 promiscuity, he said, But if you don't do it, you get behavior that's way more harmful to society. Infidelity has been around a lot longer than Ashley Madison. Now,3:22 that's an example of very bad thinking. And if you've been watching this show for any length of time, I'm sure you know I'm gonna challenge it. But first, maybe let's finish unpacking this unbelievably3:34 low point in modern civilization. The article in the LA Times explained that mister Bitterman didn't think that their commercials were gonna convince anybody to have an affair. It's a decision they've3:46 come to already, he said. All I'm saying is don't do it in the workplace where it could result in someone losing their job. Don't go to a single dating service and lie about your status. Don't hire a prostitute.3:58 Given that affairs are going to happen no matter what, maybe we should see Ashley Madison as a safe alternative. Well, pardon my sarcasm, but oh, how very noble. I mean, in that case,4:10 maybe I've been wrong about these guys. Maybe they're a benefit to humanity and a perfectly ethical service designed to promote the very high and noble character of their clients. I mean, here they are, these poor poor4:22 people. They don't have an ethical way to cheat on their spouses, so along comes Ashley Madison to help them preserve their incredibly high moral standards. Come on, man. Give me a break. There4:34 appears to be no limit to the ability of human beings to justify disgusting behavior, especially if there's money involved. The way these people talked about it, you'd almost think these cheaters were4:46 actually doing their spouses a favor by breaking their marriage vows. And I know I'm being snarky today, but if there's 1 thing that should be obvious to absolutely everybody, it's that the covenant of4:58 marriage is supposed to be sacred. Now, I know. We've had more than half a century of notable people suggesting that marriage is nothing but some kind of oppressive relic from a5:09 bygone age. But maybe it's time to be honest about the social carnage we've suffered in the wake of the sexual revolution and the seemingly incessant attack on the institution of the family.5:22 I like what Trish McDermott said, 1 of the founders of match dot com, a more ethical dating service. She said this about the business model of Ashley Madison and you'll find it in a Time magazine article5:34 from 2009. This is a business, she said, built on the back of broken hearts, ruined marriages, and damaged families. It's in the business of rebranding infidelity, making it not5:46 only monetizable, but adding a modicum of normalcy to it. Ashley Madison is making bad choices, broken promises, and faithlessness look like something that's trendy and hip5:57 and fun to talk about at a cocktail party. Now, I don't really know anything about miss McDermott, but kudos to you, Trish, for calling this exactly what it is.6:09 The institution of marriage has been in enough trouble since the sixties and it surely doesn't need the help of seedy characters who want to make a buck by straining marriage even further. I can assure you,6:21 there's nothing glamorous about destroying homes and families. And here's the really telling thing. Apparently, when mister Biederman was asked if he would mind if his wife used6:33 the site, he told a reporter, oh, I'd be devastated. Well, no kidding. You think so? Now just in case some of you think I've got my head in the sand and I don't really care about the millions of6:45 people who are hurting because they live in troubled marriages, believe me, I know that. Marriage can be challenging. That's always been the case. Now fortunately, personally, I managed to6:57 hit the marriage jackpot. I couldn't be happier with the girl I met and married. But as a minister, I've got to tell you, I might be more familiar with the heartache of infidelity than a lot of other people because,7:09 well, I'm the person you call when your marriage falls apart or when you discover that your spouse is cheating. In fact, I'm guessing I've heard more horror stories than just about anybody outside of an actual7:21 marriage counselor. And some of the stories I've heard have actually kept me awake at night because of the sheer cruelty that some people have had to go through. So, yeah, I'm well aware7:33 that many people have not found marital bliss, but I also know that cheating on your spouse is never ever the solution. To put it in hyper simplistic7:45 terms, 2 wrongs never make a right. So let me admit that when the Ashley Madison agency suffered a hacker attack in July of 20 15, I did experience a degree7:57 of schadenfreude. You know, that feeling of joy you get when you see somebody else's misfortune? It's not always a good thing, but in this case, I felt it and I'm okay with that. The hacker stole8:09 all the customer's information, names, addresses, profile information, along with details about their preferences, and they threatened to post it all on the Internet if the company didn't shut8:20 down for good. And I know some of you are thinking, should you really be enjoying the misfortune of others? Well, in this case, I'll just admit it. I did, and I can't help but be reminded of that old biblical8:32 statement that says, be sure your sin will find you out. And as 1 notable psychologist recently stated, nobody really gets away with anything ever, at8:44 least not psychologically speaking. It's going to catch up to you. Alright. It's time for a really quick break, but as soon as we come back, I'm going to explore a very important question. What exactly is8:56 wrong with adultery? Did the 10 commandments get this right? I'll be right back after this.The Sanctity of Marriage 9:06 Here at the voice of prophecy, we're committed to creating top quality programming for the whole family like our audio adventure series, Discovery Mountain. Discovery Mountain is a Bible based program for kids of9:18 all ages and backgrounds. Your family will enjoy the faith building stories from this small mountain summer camp and town. With 24 seasonal episodes every year and fresh content every week,9:30 there's always a new adventure just on the horizon.9:36 Alright. We're back from the break. And if you're just tuning in, I've been talking about Ashley Madison, an Internet service designed to help people cheat on their spouses. You'd think that after the9:47 company's data was compromised by hackers in 20 15, the company would just die a judicious death. But sadly, that's not what happened. From what I understand, it's still operating from its9:59 headquarters in Canada. And if you can believe what it says on Wikipedia, they now have more than 60000000 customers in 53 countries. Now, unbelievably, they10:11 used to offer a rock solid guarantee. If you didn't find somebody to cheat with, you got your money back. And and maybe they actually did that, but let me tell you what they'll never ever do for10:23 you. They will never give back your dignity, and they sure aren't gonna come and help you fix the damage you did to your family or mitigate the shame you heaped on your spouse. Now, from what I understand, that10:35 guarantee disappeared in 20 16. So now you're completely on your own, which that was gonna be the case anyway. Now, let's navigate away from the slime balls who did this and talk10:46 about why it's wrong generally speaking. I'm just optimistic enough to believe that most people still believe that cheating is wrong. And if you've got a religious background, you're10:58 probably gonna call it sin. And I'd have to agree with that assessment because the Bible clearly states that sin is lawlessness, or in the language of the old King James, sin is the11:10 transgression of the law. In other words, 1 of the key definitions for sin is the breaking of God's moral law. And as you likely know, the sin of adultery gets pretty high billing in11:22 the second table of the 10 commandments. But why exactly is it wrong? Today, we live in a world where many people seem to believe that if your passions drive you to do something,11:34 you should probably just do it. And I've even seen people suggest that if you don't cave into your base animal instincts, you might actually be causing yourself a bit of psychological harm. Their argument11:45 kinda runs like this. Your passions are a natural part of who you are, so you should probably just give in to them. Now, I've mentioned this on other episodes, but I think we can probably thank doctor Freud11:57 for some of that thinking, as well as doctor Wilhelm Reich, 1 of the chief philosophical architects of the sexual revolution of the 19 sixties. And I guess if you approach the subject of human nature12:09 from a purely materialistic point of view, from the position that human beings emerged in the universe by accident, there is no God, well, then I guess you could argue they12:21 were right. Just follow your passions. But if you're gonna do that, then where exactly will you draw the moral line? I mean, just think about this. There are days when you lose12:33 your temper and your animal passions tell you to do unspeakable things when somebody's making you mad, and history has pointed out that would include murdering the person who's angering you.12:45 That's the reason that a lot of places have instituted cooling off periods for people who buy guns. You you might be able to buy the gun today, but you're gonna have to wait before you can pick it up. Why? Well, I12:57 guess they're trying to be sure you're not buying that gun in an active passion. I mean, maybe you just found out that your husband's using Ashley Madison and you're really really really mad, and if you actually had13:09 a gun at the very moment of discovery, the odds are pretty good You might just shoot him. You see, you you don't always want to just follow your animal passions. It leads to disaster. And I13:21 think most of us can agree that nobody wants to live in a world where your passions get decoupled from your gift for reason. If all of your neighbors believe that if they want something, they should13:33 just take it, I think you'd be tempted to move out of town. We have laws that try to curb our animal appetites. Now, if I'm really honest about it, it kind of feels to me like we're drifting13:45 toward a point where things like reason and discourse are becoming our last consideration. And our first thought when we want something is to just demand it, to say it's our right, even up to the point of riots13:57 or property damage. But that's probably another topic for another day. So let's get back to the matter at hand, and that's the commandment against adultery. A lot of years ago now, I was getting a haircut at14:09 this place in LA where the gal who was cutting my hair discovered I'm a minister. So she suddenly started to share her ideas about human sexuality. It was kind of uncomfortable. The fact that a14:20 man remains fertile well into his golden years, she said, seems like proof that men are naturally supposed to be sleeping with as many women as possible. Now, of course, when somebody's got their scissors in your hair,14:32 you wanna respond as tactfully as possible. Well, I don't believe that for a moment, I said. And I know that a lot of people think you're somehow depriving yourself if you don't live by your passions, but personally,14:43 I've got to tell you the opposite is the truth. When you're sleeping around, I told her, you're depriving yourself of something spectacular because there's no way that a 1 night stand or a14:55 casual fling can compete with the gift of a lifetime of intimacy with just 1 person. And I really meant that. What God designed in the institution of marriage is meant to enhance your15:07 human life. Now again, I know that some of you have been hurt. I'm not gonna deny that that happens. And I know that some of you have never found a person you'd like to spend the rest of your15:18 life with, and I'm not suggesting even15:18 for a moment that you have to get married to have an authentic life. I mean, Paul himself said he had no desire to get married again, and it's really hard to argue that Paul was not living his best possible15:30 life. But he also said that most people can't do that. And to be honest, I'm not sure that I could. Celibate for life? I doubt it. So let me read what he said, and you'll find this in first Corinthians15:42 chapter 7. To the unmarried and the widows, I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self control, they should marry for it is better to marry than to burn with15:53 passion. Then Paul goes on to explain that if if you're married, you should do what you can to preserve that marriage, and sometimes that does fail. But it's what you should try to do.16:05 And of course, we still have to answer the question, does the seventh commandment, the 1 that prohibits adultery, still make sense in our 20 first century context? The answer is an unqualified yes.16:17 The reason it's still important stems from the very character of God himself. The 10 Commandments, it's not just a list of rules. It's a portrait of God himself, a transcript of his character.16:29 So for example, when God says, you shall not kill, he's telling you that he values life and as the very source of life, he owns it all. He's not just saying, you shall not kill, he's also saying,16:41 I want you to value life the way that I do. So with that in mind, what can we learn about God from the seventh commandment? Well, right out of the gate, we know that God deeply values16:52 relationships and he wants us to conduct our relationships the way that he conducts his. When God says in the book of Hebrews, I will never leave you nor forsake you, he really means it.17:04 You can bank on it. He's going to keep his word. And honestly, that's some of the best news you'll ever find in the Bible. In fact, just listen to this statement from Paul in the eighth chapter of Romans. For I am17:16 sure, Paul writes, that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to17:28 separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus, our Lord. Now you tell me you wouldn't value that kind of commitment from just about anybody. And in the seventh commandment, God is telling17:39 us that he expects us to be like him. If you enter into a covenant relationship, your word should be as reliable as the universe itself, and the institution of marriage17:52 offers you a chance to show the character of God through you to the whole world. But if you play loose with that covenant, what you're doing is misrepresenting the character of God, the 1 who made us.18:03 The Bible teaches that you were made in God's image, but if you're a cheater, your behavior lies about what God is like. But there's more to it than that, so hang tight and I'll be right back after18:15 this.18:20 Life can throw a lot at us. Sometimes we don't have all the answers, but that's where the bible comes in. It's our guide to a more fulfilling life. Here at the18:31 voice of prophecy, we've created the discover bible guides to be your guide to the bible. They're designed to be simple, easy to use, and provide answers to many of life's toughest questions, and they're absolutely18:43 free. So jump online now or give us a call and start your journey of discovery.18:49 Back in the book of Genesis, there's this famous statement, you've probably heard it, that says, you and I were made in the image of God. Now here's what it actually says in Genesis 1 verse19:00 26. Then God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all19:12 the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth. So God created man in his own image. In the image of God, he created him. Male and female, he created them. Now, I hope19:24 you caught that because this is really important. The book of Genesis says that men and women were both created in the image of God. And then in the next chapter down in Genesis 2 verse 24,19:36 it tells us that a husband and wife become 1 flesh. It's such an important idea that Jesus repeated it when he was being challenged by the Pharisees over the issue of19:47 divorce. You'll find this passage in Matthew chapter 19. It says, and Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause? He19:59 answered, have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female and said, therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the 2 shall become 120:11 flesh. So they are no longer 2, but 1 flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate. Here's what's going on at least in part. Over the20:23 centuries, careful Bible students have noticed that God's nature has this kind of surprising twist to it. There's just 1 God, but somehow at the same time, he's 3 separate persons, Father,20:35 Son, and Holy Spirit. So we have 1 God, but that 1 God is 3 people. And of course, it's hard to wrap your mind around that and it's led to centuries of theological debate, but it20:46 really highlights something important about marriage. What we have in the institution of marriage is 2 people becoming 1. So Jean and I are still 2 individuals, 2 rather strong20:58 willed individuals, but within the marriage covenant, we operate as 1 person. We still have our own opinions. We have our own preferences, and because we're faulty human beings, we often disagree. But overall,21:11 we experience life as 1. The marriage relationship is so deep, so intimate that it puts you together as 1 person, and that's an opportunity to learn something more about21:23 God. If Jean and I are both made in God's image, then I really need to pay attention to the image of God that's found in my wife because she's going to show me things about God's nature that I will not discover21:34 on my own. I mean, if there's 1 thing that's obvious to most people, at least until recently, it's the fact that men and women are wired quite differently. Our biology is different all the way down to our21:46 brains and the way we think. So my wife has the ability to show me things about God that I will never see in myself and vice versa. It's almost as if God21:58 divided his image between men and women so that in order to see God more clearly, you're gonna have to live somewhat like he does, more than 1 person blended into a single unit. Now22:10 I understand full well that that kind of thinking has fallen out of fashion, and we've gotten pretty good at denying the differences between men and women. But my job is not to tell you what the culture says. My job22:22 is to tell you what the Bible says and the Bible tells me that I do not possess the image of God all by myself. And here's what that really means. In a faithful committed22:33 relationship, you have an opportunity to see God a little more clearly. You have the chance at a really basic level to experience the universe, kind of, sort of like22:45 God does. And in marriage, you've been given the opportunity to know God just a little better. So what does it mean if you cheat? Well, first of all, you're lying about who God is, and then22:57 you're destroying a great opportunity to sit in the school of heaven to learn about the 1 who made you. And just as a side note, when you enter into a lifelong sexual relationship with somebody, you're taking23:09 that person's heart into your hands, and God expects you to treat that privilege with reverence. He expects you to reward another person's vulnerability by showering them with the kind of love that23:21 God would give them. We know for a fact that sexual relationships are tied to something distinctly biological. When you're that intimate, your body generates a hormone known as oxytocin,Redemption and Forgiveness 23:33 the so called love or trust hormone. It's actually the same substance that nursing mothers produce when they're feeding their children, and it's 1 of the key reasons that the bond between a mother and a child is23:45 so incredibly powerful. So in other words, your body actually generates a physical response to the intimacy of marriage. It produces this chemical bond. And when you violate that23:57 trust, you're not just causing emotional carnage, there's a physical component too. In fact, I sometimes wonder if that's the reason Paul suggests that sexual sin is different from other kinds24:09 of sin. And I'll show you that verse as soon as we come back from this really quick break.24:18 Dragons, beasts, cryptic statues. Bible prophecy can be incredibly vivid and confusing. If you've ever read Daniel or Revelation and come away24:30 scratching your head, you're not alone. Our free focus on prophecy guides are designed to help you unlock the mysteries of the Bible and deepen your understanding of God's plan for you and our world.24:41 Study online or request them by mail and start bringing prophecy into focus today.24:47 Tragically, the Christian church that Paul established in the city of Corinth became something of a moral mess because after all, Christians are just as faulty as anybody else. And among other things, these people were24:59 breaking the seventh commandment. Flee from sexual immorality, Paul had to tell them. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins25:11 against his own body. There's just something different about sexual sin, something that sets it apart from all other forms of transgression. And given what we know about the chemical pair bonding that25:22 takes place between intimate partners, I've sometimes wondered if maybe there's a reference to something like oxytocin in Paul's description. I don't really know, but it does seem to make a little sense.25:35 And so does the entire commandment. The founders of Ashley Madison were brazen enough to suggest that committing adultery can save your marriage. But let's be honest, the only reason they said that was to get25:47 you to hand over your credit card information. Let me assure you, they're dead wrong. You're going to do a lot of damage to your spouse and ultimately to yourself. And I know25:59 marriages sometimes fail. They fall apart. People struggle even inside the church, but I can assure you that cheating is not the best path forward. In fact, it will never pay the kinds of26:11 dividends these hucksters seem to promise. They're just lying to you. You are far better off to deal with your pain honestly, and if you can, you're better off to save your marriage. Find a26:22 Christian counselor. Get some help. I mean, it might still fail, but you never ever compromise your morality just because someone else did. And maybe you've already failed at this point.26:34 Maybe you've cheated. Maybe all of your relationships have fallen way short of God's standard. You've done it wrong every single time, and now you're tempted to think it's too late to find26:46 something better. Well, that's a big a lie as the ones that the people at Ashley Madison were telling because we happen to have a loving God who forgives us, and he longs to see you enjoy the kind of26:58 authentic life that he intends for you. Absolutely nobody, apart from Jesus himself, has lived the kind of life that God can smile about 100 percent,27:10 but that doesn't mean that God has given up on you. I mean, just listen to this. A statement written by a man who broke the Seventh Commandment. He wrote, for you, oh Lord, are good and forgiving, abounding in steadfast27:22 love to all who call upon you. If you don't really know where to start, head on over to bible studies dot com. You'll find an amazing free course that you can do yourself in the27:33 privacy of your home, and it will help you find a deeper relationship with a God who wants to love you the way you've always hoped that you could be loved. Thanks for joining me this week. I'm Shawn Boonstra. This27:45 has been another episode of Authentic.In this video 0:00 The Deception of Ashley Madison9:02 The Sanctity of Marriage23:22 Redemption and ForgivenessComments No comments yet. Start the conversation.
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