Skip to content Husbands, It's Time To Start Leading At Home Dec 5 · 32 min ...more
Husbands, It's Time To Start Leading At Home
December 5, 2022 · 32 min
Let's answer some of your questions! Today's question: How does a husband lead his household? ----- For all links mentioned and more from the Real Marriage Podcast, visit: https://linktr.ee/realmarriage Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesFollow on social media!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MarkDriscollMinistries?sub_confirmation=1Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pastormarkInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/markdriscollTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@pastormarkdriscollTwitter: https://linktr.ee/markdriscoll Click here for more resources: https://linktr.ee/markdriscoll
Series Real Marriage with Mark & Grace Driscoll December 5, 2022 · 32 min · Real Marriage with Mark & Grace Driscoll
Let's answer some of your questions! Today's question: How does a husband lead his household? ----- For all links mentioned and more from the Real Marriage Podcast, visit: https://linktr.ee/realmarriage Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesFollow on social media!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MarkDriscollMinistries?sub_confirmation=1Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pastormarkInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/markdriscollTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@pastormarkdriscollTwitter: https://linktr.ee/markdriscoll Click here for more resources: https://linktr.ee/markdriscoll ...more Show the full description Show less Let's answer some of your questions! Today's question: How does a husband lead his household? ----- For all links mentioned and more from the Real Marriage Podcast, visit: https://linktr.ee/realmarriage Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesFollow on social media!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MarkDriscollMinistries?sub_confirmation=1Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pastormarkInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/markdriscollTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@pastormarkdriscollTwitter: https://linktr.ee/markdriscoll Click here for more resources: https://linktr.ee/markdriscoll
Series Real Marriage with Mark & Grace Driscoll
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With Pastor Mark, it’s all about Jesus! He is a spiritual leader, prolific author, and compelling speaker, but at his core, he is a family man. Mark and his
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0:00 And and as men, sometimes the wisdom that God has for us on how to lovingly, humbly, sacrificially lead our wife and our kids is0:12 in our wife and our kids. And if we don't ask them, we're overlooking and ignoring the place where God has already deposited the wisdom. Mhmm. Because at the end of the day, there are principles in the Bible, but they0:23 are applied to your relationships. And you've got to ask those people, how's it going? Alright. Mark and Grace here with the Real Marriage Podcast. You really really don't wanna do this question.0:36 Right? Rather not. But0:38 How come before we get to the question? How come how come you're0:41 like, I I don't wanna talk about that. Because he's asking the wrong questions and it makes me sad for his wife.0:47 I would just tell you, I think every guy would identify with that.0:52 No. Great.0:56 So sometimes if you ask the wrong question, you head down the wrong trail and you end up in the wrong place. And I'm gonna read the question.1:09 Comes from a guy who seems to be taking his role and responsibility seriously, which I would encourage. It seems to me1:20 As a husband.1:21 As a husband. But it seems to me that he has gotten some really bad teaching. And when I say the things I'm probably going to end up saying to him, and the men like1:33 him, it could seem a little harsh, a little intense, but you're the product of your teaching. And as a Bible teacher, it just frustrates me when
1:45 the Bible gets weaponized to cause damage because God's word for his people should cause healing and not harm. Mhmm. And in the New Testament,
1:57 Holy Spirit just brings this first to mind. Paul tells a young man to labor for sound doctrine. And a lot of times guys like this who are more doctrinal, more theological, more quote
2:09 unquote biblical. They're like they're like, yes, that's right. Sound doctrine. But the Greek word for sound there is healthy. Unless you become healthy and have a healthy
2:21 relationship with your wife and a healthy relationship with your kids that comes from a healthy relationship with your God, you don't have sound doctrine. Because sound doctrine is not filling in all the blanks. Mhmm.
2:33 Sound doctrine is not winning the Jeopardy episode. Sound doctrine is not being able to out argue other people. Sound doctrine is manifesting the character of Christ in the fruit
2:45 of the spirit. Yeah. It's healthy. It's healthy. And so within this, he has this question. What does it look like for a husband to lead his
2:56 household? You know, in first pass, it's not a bad question. And again, I'm gonna attack what you've been taught. And what I would tell you
3:08 is to depersonalize what you believe from who you are. I'm not attacking who you are. I'm attacking what has been taught to you because what bad teaching does, it it
3:20 puts people in a position where they are asking the wrong questions. Mhmm. Says, as the leader in my marriage to a beautiful, intelligent, and then he says, beautiful wife. So apparently she's double
3:32 beautiful. How do I enforce the rules of our household? Words like enforce and rules. Do I just pray? Prayer actually
3:42 Is more than just prayer.
3:44 More than just praying. People who don't believe in prayer say, What, I just pray? People who believe in prayer say, Just pray.
3:51 A little different.
3:53 Am I accountable for my household? How do I correct behavior that doesn't bring glory to God? I would submit that perhaps your attitude doesn't. What does a husband's
4:04 wrath look like is a spanking ever an acceptable method for correction talking about in his marriage? So let me just pull out a little question here. Enforce You
4:15 might be referring to his household at that point. Because accountable for my household, how do I correct behavior? So he may have gone from marriage discussion to household.
4:27 That's what I'm hoping. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. I'm hoping he's not asking about that with his wife.
4:32 Okay. But here's the words. And so thank you, Grace, for living up to your name. So enforce rules accountable, correct wrath spanking.
4:43 Yeah. And a couple sentences there.
4:45 Yeah. In a couple sentences. Let me just do the word count again. Enforce rules accountable, correct wrath, spanking.
4:53 6.
4:54 Yeah. And and there's no wife out there going, I hope these are my husband's favorite words. And so what there can be so there's
5:05 there's there's 2 ways to have bad teaching that can even become false teaching. 1 is to take out
5:17 of the Bible things that are supposed to be there. The other is to add things to the Bible that aren't supposed to be there. So you can have
5:29 error by subtraction or addition. 1 of the ways when it comes to marriage and family, there is this narrow lane I won't name names, I'm not gonna attack
5:40 individuals, but there is this weird hardcore subculture around marriage and
5:52 family that is imbalanced and it dials up certain verses, it dials down other verses, and it leads to certain
6:04 guys who are high control, guys who are non relational, certain guys who are more religious, certain guys who are more punitive,
6:15 weaponizing the Bible
6:17 but don't know what they actually say.
6:18 Weaponizing the Bible and misquoting the scriptures to be heavy handed, domineering, and overbearing with their wife and with their children. Mhmm. Sounds to me
6:30 like he's been subjected to that teaching. Now, part of the trigger for me, even on the question, in that really extreme subculture, they do have something that they would refer to
6:42 as spousal discipline. That when the children disobey, the father spanks them. And when the wife disobeys, she also receives corporeal punishment.
6:51 Which
6:54 means in the family system, she is regarded at the same level as the children, which she's not. She's an adult and an image bearer of God and the mother and
7:06 an equal and a coer with Christ. And I don't think you should discipline anybody in anger. He talks about wrath. We should never do this because the point of discipline, even of a child, is not punishment, but it's
7:18 correction. It's not to cause them pain for what they have done, but to show them that the path that they are on is going to cause pain. And so we want to correct their behavior back toward good and
7:30 toward life. And in that subculture, the wife gets treated really in not just a secondary citizen status, but I would say
7:41 in an abusive category. Mhmm. And I would say that when the Bible says that the husband
7:47 is Emotionally.
7:48 The head of the wife, it also says as Christ is the head of the church.
7:53 And that He loves the church and pours Himself out
7:55 for Pours Himself out for her. And so what Jesus does for the church, He actually endures all the wrath, all the accountability, and all of the suffering
8:07 so that He can bless his bride, the church. Jesus doesn't pour out wrath on the church. Jesus literally endures whatever he has to endure to bless and to benefit his bride.
8:19 Yes.
8:20 And so, you know, I mean, if you're talking about a husband's wrath, a husband a Christian husband is not allowed to have wrath toward his wife or children. Mhmm. Period. Mhmm. Because the wrath was
8:32 here's the theological doctrine. It's this word propitiation that appears 4 times in the Greek New Testament. When it says that Jesus is the propitiation for our sins, what that means is the
8:44 wrath of God was poured out on the Lord Jesus. He took our place, put us in his place. He took the wrath so we get the grace and the love and the blessing and the mercy and the compassion. And so the whole doctrine
8:55 of propitiation in the New Testament is God doesn't have wrath for us if we're in covenant relationship with him. He has only love and grace and blessing for us. So if you're in relationship with your wife and your kids,
9:08 you're not allowed to have any wrath towards your wife and Correct.
9:11 Correct.
9:11 Jesus took all the wrath. You you you're not allowed to pick up some extra and pour it out on them. And I think part of what he is struggling with as well is he is
9:23 looking so now I'm doing a lot of talking and theologians, but I understand these guys. Yes. Because I have dealt with these guys Lived
9:31 in that world. Because I'm
9:32 a strong personality and because I'm a Bible guy and, you know, I'm more of a dude. A lot of these guys are like, yeah, you know, I'm like, you know, they listen to me, but they don't think
9:44 right. Their heads are on crooked.
9:47 They take your words out of
9:50 Yeah. And my critics do as well. And it angers me to no end because it makes me struggle with my wrath and wanting to enforce rules and hold people accountable. Correct. My neighbor was spanking, but I get not allowed to
10:01 do that. And so question number 1, I'm gonna ask you a few as a wife from a woman's perspective. What is the difference between a husband leading through
10:12 driving the family versus drawing the family?
10:18 Stressful versus love.
10:22 What does driving the family look like versus drawing?
10:24 It's performance based. And you feel like you can't ever measure up and you're walking on eggshells and
10:31 Performance.
10:33 Yeah. And then drawing is, that's what the Lord does. He draws us to himself. He invites. He puts things, he blesses us
10:45 so that we are drawn to a relationship with him, and it brings more blessing because we're connected to him.
10:52 And so, like, the Lord Jesus comes to the earth and people are drawn to him. Kids. Kids find him very safe. Like, kids are like, hey, there's Jesus.
11:04 Everybody get your Wiffle ball bat. Let's go see, you know, if Phil hang out with us today. So children are drawn to Jesus because they know for a fact they're not gonna be driven by
11:16 Jesus.
11:17 And his wrath is not gonna come out on them.
11:19 He's not gonna have any wrath on kids. Mhmm. Now he got upset with religious guys, you know, built a whip and did a little Indiana Jones, but it never says that he whipped the children. Mhmm. Only the religious guys,
11:29 probably because they were whipping their own children. Mhmm. So And so people are drawn to Jesus, including, you know, just think about it for a moment. What kind of women were drawn to Jesus?
11:41 Broken, hurting women. They felt safe with him. They could tell that he had grace and tenderness and love, even though he was truth incarnate and he was
11:53 gonna, but he drew them out in their brokenness to get healed.
11:57 So like the woman at the well. She's rejected by everybody. She's there alone because nobody wants to be with her. She's been through a parade of husbands, and now she's shacking up with her boyfriend. And
12:10 she really is drawn to Jesus. She tells him her whole life story and all of her pains and problems. And he's safe. He's not gonna take advantage of her. He's not going to drive her. He's not gonna, you
12:22 know, eviscerate her. He's not gonna manipulate and take advantage of her. He's safe. Mary Magdalene. Mary Magdalene.
12:28 The hemorrhaging woman. I mean,
12:31 just The woman caught in adultery.
12:32 The caught in adultery. I mean, just over and over and over. Those women feel safe with him. And they know that even though they're broken, he will love them.
12:41 And a lot of those women were broken because of men who were driving. Exactly. Pushing for sex, pushing for performance, pushing for obedience, pushing for service. And the men were driving
12:53 the women until something in them was broken. And then you would think that they would be triggered by terrified of men, especially powerful men, especially religiously powerful men. Jesus
13:04 shows up, they're drawn to him Because he's this place for healing and safety and Yeah. Processing and help. Mhmm. So part of it is sometimes when a man
13:16 hears leader, he thinks I need to be driving. He doesn't understand I need to be drawing.
13:22 And leading takes humility. It's not about walking around with a crown and scepter. It's about being humble and serving as Jesus did.
13:30 Well, so Jesus' whole leadership is servant. You know, says, didn't come to be served, but to serve. You know, your attitude should be the same as Christ, Philippians says. He humbled himself and took upon the form of a
13:42 servant. And so if Jesus' leadership model is serving, well, that's different than driving. What's the difference from a wife's perspective between
13:54 a husband being a lion versus a lamb? I talk about this a lot with the men.
13:58 Yeah. You talk about being a lion for them and protecting them and providing for them and working hard, but a lamb with them, being tender, being kind, being
14:09 loving. And if you're a lion to them instead of for them to protect them, then you're acting out abusively and
14:21 harmfully, whether it's verbally, physically, emotionally. But if you're a lamb for them, that's not helpful either because then
14:33 other people will act out against them and harm them because you're not there to protect them and speak against harm being done to them.
14:40 There's Jesus in the Bible, and he's our perfect he's perfect man. So if if you're this is a husband's question. If you're like, well, what does a good man look like? Jesus.
14:48 Just
14:49 let's make this as simple as we can. Jesus is not just good. He's perfect.
14:52 Mhmm.
14:52 He nailed it every time and every way and every day. So if you want to learn how to be a man, just look at Jesus. So Jesus is called in the Bible the lion and the lamb. And even in Revelation 5, it literally in the same
15:03 few sentences calls him the lion and the lamb. And you can look through the Bible, there's times that he is a lion. He's defending against religious people. He's protecting women and children. He's fighting against
15:14 injustice. There's other times that he is a total lamb. You know, my daughter, when she was little, both of our daughters like the story of the healing and rising of Jairus' daughter, and she's on her deathbed
15:26 and Jesus goes there and heals her. 1 of her daughters, she made me read that story every night for a year. She's like, I was like, let me read a story. And she's like, and Jairus' daughter. So the thought of Jesus
15:37 coming to a little girl's bedside to heal her, that just was her vision of Jesus.
15:42 Yeah.
15:43 And so oftentimes if you are a man who's a lion, when you read the Bible, all the lion verses are gonna stand out. Mhmm. If you're a lamb, all the lamb verses are gonna stand out. When it talks about
15:54 Jesus' emotions in the Bible, the number 1 emotion that is mentioned of Jesus the most is compassion. And so ultimately, if you want to be like Jesus and
16:06 lead like Jesus, you'd be a lion, like Grace said, for your family, your wife and your kids, you'd be a lamb with them. So maybe be honest. So if my natural disposition
16:16 Is lying.
16:17 Lion. But like with women and children
16:22 Lamb.
16:22 More lamb. So we just dropped off our daughter at college, our youngest daughter, kid number 4. We're super excited for her. She's got great roommates. I think it's gonna be great. And I had a
16:34 nuclear meltdown. I went to I went to pray over her and I just completely lost it. I just started
16:43 Crying. Crying.
16:44 And just hugging her and kissing her and because, like, my little girl is not gonna be sleeping under my roof anymore, which I'm gonna start crying right now just thinking about. And, like, my daughters
16:55 make me cry all the time. Yeah. But men don't. Like, there's not a lot of men who have, you know, held me while I cried. But my daughters have had this experience a And
17:09 so for you and for the kids, but especially for the daughters, I wanna be a lamb for you, but a lion with you. And what he's talking about here, it's all lion language. Enforce rules, accountable,
17:21 correct, wrath, spanking, lying lying lying lying lying. It's like, well, the problem in your home may be I don't know about, you know, usually if you drop literally like a wild lion
17:33 in a home, the women and children go lock the door and don't come out. Mhmm. Now, if you drop a lamb in the yard
17:43 They'll go try and pet it.
17:44 They're gonna go try and pet it. And so the question is, when you come home, is a lion coming home or is a lamb coming home?
17:49 It's a good question.
17:50 And if your wife and children are experiencing you as a lion, you're like, well, how do I get them to follow? That's driving them, not drawing them. Mhmm. And so I'll ask you 1 more question.
18:02 What's the difference between singular headship and plural leadership in marriage? Because this theological system does not understand that principle.
18:12 It doesn't honor that God created us with equal value.
18:17 Male, female, both equal image bearers, image and likeness. Adam's perfect. God says, you're not good alone. Now that you're a sinner, I'm sure it's not gotten any better.
18:28 So in marriage, what's the difference between headship and leadership?
18:36 You are the singular head, but we have plural leadership because I get to speak into and you want me to speak into.
18:46 Oh, I thought there's things you make the decisions on and I defer to you because that's your area of expertise. Exactly.
18:51 Yep. But ultimately, you're responsible for the decisions that are made. We make them together. But when there's things we disagree on and you have to make a decision, you're responsible as the head.
19:03 But I would be terrified to make any major decision that we didn't agree on.
19:07 Right.
19:07 Because if you're listening to the Lord and I'm listening to Lord and we don't agree, somehow the signals are crossed. Mhmm. And number 1, I don't really have full confidence in a decision if you don't agree with
19:19 it. And number 2, how can we be united as 1 to work on whatever it is we're doing if we disagree on whether or not it should be done? So to me, unity is crucial
19:30 because the 2 become 1. And that means we need to be in agreement. And so anything that matters, we talk about, pray about and come to agreement on. I just would never come home and
19:42 tell you, you know, here's what we're doing. I'd be like, honey, here's what I'm thinking. You need to talk to the Lord. What's your perspective? Because if it's not good to be alone, then why is it good to make
19:53 decisions alone? Right.
19:55 Yeah, absolutely.
19:56 And he who finds a wife finds a good thing and finds favor from the Lord. And a prudent or wise wife is from the Lord. Like, you know, there's a lot of verses and a lot of them are like, Hey, better talk to your girl
20:07 because she's there for a reason. And so the principle of singular headship and plural leadership is that as the head, I take first responsibility. So with Adam and Eve, they were
20:19 plural leaders. They both were given dominion, be fruitful and multiply, increase in number, fill the earth. They were given a job description together. And they're co leaders, they're co
20:30 heirs, and they're co vice regents of God. But Adam was in the first position of responsibility, And Eve was responsible and she was in the second position of responsibility. So even
20:42 though Eve sinned first, God showed up and called out to Adam first, where are you? Because he's firstly responsible. But let me say this, he's not solely responsible. Right.
20:55 So then God goes to Eve and he's like, hey, let's talk about your failure because you're both leaders.
21:01 Yes. Active and passive sin.
21:03 Yeah. His sin was passive, her sin was active, but you're both leaders and you both sinned and I need to deal with both of my failed leaders. So he talks to Adam and Eve, but he talks to Adam first because
21:15 as the head, he was first and responsible. Mhmm. So his head, it doesn't mean that your boss, your bully, your domineering, And it doesn't mean that the wife is at the same level as the children.
21:26 Right.
21:27 The Bible says that children should honor and obey, speaks of young children, not grandchildren, their mother and their father because the mother and the father are the leaders. Yep.
21:39 So you are a leader. You are an equal. You are a peer. You're not you're not on the org chart down there with the younger children.
21:52 We're ruling and reigning, you know, under the grace of God and for the grace of God together. And as head of household, that even means there are things that I defer to you. Like, honey, what do
22:04 you think? I mean, an example comes to mind. There were 2 schools that we could choose for our children that came available when we moved to Arizona. I wanted 1, you wanted the other 1. So what did we do?
22:16 We went with the 1 I thought was better and I was right. Well,
22:22 at the end of the day, I was like, I could go either way. This would be my preference. And you said, No, I feel very strongly about this. And I know you walk with the Lord and you hear from the Holy Spirit and you pray
22:34 and you're a woman who's godly and wise. You're like, no. I just have deep, profound convictions that this is the right answer. And I asked, okay. Then give me your case
22:43 Mhmm.
22:44 Because I'm the case guy. And, give me the the argument. Give me the the reason. And you said, I don't know. I just feel very, very strongly about this.
22:53 I had a few reasons, but nothing that was, you know, huge. It was more of a sense from the Holy Spirit that that's where we needed to have our kids, at least in that season, and they've stayed the whole time.
23:05 But yeah. And what I decided was you're gonna make the decision. You have a strong conviction. There are other things that you make decisions on, like anything related to health or diet, I'm out. I mean,
23:18 you know, I'm out. I mean, am not smart about this stuff. I'll be honest with you guys. Reason I was trying to trim my nose hair because if I don't trim, I look like a guy who snorted a cat out of my ears and my nose.
23:29 And I nicked it and I didn't know how to get the bleeding to stop. So I put Gorilla Glue in my nose. That's literally something that happened recently. And it worked, but I'm not encouraging you to use Gorilla Glue on
23:38 your body. So anything related to health or to medical? Who's the expert? Me. You are. I'm not the expert. I don't know anything about that stuff, obviously.
23:51 But it does mean that we agree on the decision. And even if we're implementing something that you are deciding because you're the subject matter expert, it means that we both take responsibility for it. And
24:03 I can never look at you and say, you put the kids in the wrong school. I'd be like, no, agree. We work on it together. We implement it together. And if it doesn't work, I don't blame you as head of household.
24:15 I take first responsibility to help architect a solution or a remedy or a plan. And of course, we're working on that together and we're doing all of that together. Mhmm. Now, those of you guys who are
24:27 the hardcore, I'm the head of my household guys, I'll just tell you, be careful with that verse. A buddy of mine says it's like so, the more you use it, the less you have. Mhmm. And if you're having to pull out all of
24:39 the verses telling your wife that you're the boss, you may not be a really good husband. Mhmm. And and and the question would be ask your wife and kids ask your
24:51 wife. I'll give you a couple dangerous questions in conclusion. And I'm gonna ask you to ask these questions and then shut up. Ask your wife, what's it like being married to me?
25:03 Do you feel safe? Do you feel loved? Do you feel heard? Do you feel cared for? Do you feel valued?
25:09 It's a dangerous question.
25:11 And if she says something you don't like Don't argue. Show them. Then ask your kids, what's it like to have me as your dad? Do you feel loved? Do you feel
25:23 protected? Do you feel cared for? Do you feel like you get a lion or do you get a lamb? You know? Do you feel like I draw you or drive you? And and as men,
25:34 sometimes the wisdom that God has for us on how to lovingly, humbly, sacrificially lead our wife and our kids is in our wife and our kids.
25:46 And if we don't ask them, we're overlooking and ignoring the place where God has already deposited the wisdom. Because at the end of the day, there are principles in the Bible, but they are applied to your relationships.
25:58 And you've got to ask those people, how's it going? Yeah.
26:02 And if they say not well, what what should he do?
26:05 If they say not well, number 1, I would say the people that you're listening to, and from the question, I could probably guess at least the ecosystem, you know, it's like you show me your
26:17 sickness and I'll show you your diet. Yeah. You know? There's a sickness here that comes from a bad diet. Mhmm. And I don't think he's a bad man, but I think he's been fed a bad diet. Mhmm. And as a
26:28 result, he's not healthy. So what he's asking is, how do I get more authority? How do I get more control? How do I get more obedience? And, you know, and how do I get more wrath? And it's like
26:40 More relationship with the people.
26:42 Relationship. Because these are all non relational words, non relational questions. I mean So
26:49 he can repent. He can.
26:50 These would be the kind of words that I would ask about my Bronco parked outside. Like, you know, rules, accountable, correction, enforcing. Like, these are words that we use to talk about
27:02 things, not people.
27:03 Yes.
27:03 These are nonrelational words, and many men are simply nonrelational men, and they think in nonrelational categories. So they go to nonrelational bible teachers who then give
27:15 them legalisms and sort of logical leaps. And it ends up with sort of a domineering, abusive, overbearing religious man quoting verses to a wife who's
27:27 scared, you know, quiet, shamed, afraid of him. She's treated like 1 of the children. And then the children just wanna just not be home because it's a place that is not the presence of the Holy Spirit.
27:38 Yeah. Yeah, it's a sad scenario and we've seen it far too often. And so there's repentance here that can happen. But again, it takes
27:50 serving in humility and being willing to listen to the hard words that might come from asking those questions. But probably if they saw humility come into play andShow more
Mark Driscoll
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