Skip to content Reality Check: Should the Church and Christians Stay Out of Politics? Oct 2 · 32 min ...more
Reality Check: Should the Church and Christians Stay Out of Politics?
October 2, 2024 · 32 min
Pastor John Mark urges the listener to approach voting with biblical values. He notes that voting is a right and a vital opportunity to stand for moral and biblical principles.
Series "Pastor Talks" with John Mark Caton October 2, 2024 · 32 min · "Pastor Talks" with John Mark Caton
Pastor John Mark urges the listener to approach voting with biblical values. He notes that voting is a right and a vital opportunity to stand for moral and biblical principles. ...more Show the full description Show less Pastor John Mark urges the listener to approach voting with biblical values. He notes that voting is a right and a vital opportunity to stand for moral and biblical principles.
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John Mark is the Senior Pastor of the thriving Cottonwood Creek Church in Allen, Texas, where he has served since 1995.
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0:00 Amen. Give God a hand. We're excited about that. If you're new with us, either in person or online, we started a series a couple of weeks ago entitled reality check. We're looking at some of the issues and topics of0:12 today, seeing what they look like, and then comparing that to how the Bible says those topics should be lived out and fleshed out. Over the last couple of weeks we've looked at the idea of marriage, so if you missed any0:22 of those go find these online. Church, does church matter? Should a Christian have to go to church? The issue of salvation, eternal security. But today I'm gonna talk to you about 1 that it's on the forefront0:34 of everybody's mind. If you're awake. How many of you know this is political season? We've got a vote coming up. So today I wanna take on0:46 the issue of should a Christian be involved in politics? Should Christians vote? You know, lot of people say, you know, Christians, why don't you just go0:58 preach the gospel and plant churches and stay out of everybody else's business? And so I want you to know as we journey forward in this, my answer is absolutely Christians should be involved in politics and I'm gonna1:09 tell you why. I'm gonna deal with some of the objections to that, but then I'm also gonna tell you some of what I see as the most important issues in the elections today. What you're not gonna hear me do are talk about1:20 the 2 candidates at the top of the political parties, neither 1 of them. See, here's the issue. The way we are blessed in our country is we have things called primaries. In primaries, you1:32 can vote for your favorite personality. Your personality may win or they may not win. However, when it comes to a general election, 1 of 2 people are gonna win,1:44 but I will submit to you that who wins is less important than the party platform below. You say, why? Because if you look over the last 40 or 50 years, whoever's in the White House1:56 regardless of their personality, the party in control of the White House implements about 80 percent of their party platform. So when we get to this stage, it is about2:07 platform, it's not about personality. And I'll just tell you right now, believe we have 2 very flawed candidates at the top. I wish I had better decisions, and by the way, I am fully aware that I am going to offend2:19 everybody in the room at some point today. Alright? That is not my point. That is not my point. There are gonna be some of you that you're so right of me, it's amazing, some of you are left of me,2:31 you're all getting offended. Alright? But here's what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna go stand out in that atrium just like I do every Sunday, because I am your pastor and your friend. So as I think about voting, here's what2:42 Paul said in Ephesians chapter 5. He said, be very careful then how you live your lives, not as unwise people but as wise people making the most of every opportunity because the days are2:54 evil. Alright. We wanna make the most of every opportunity. I get 1 vote. I get 1 vote. I I can make some decisions to not vote or or or I can make a decision. I'm gonna write in Billy3:05 Graham, FYI, he will not win. Neither will his son Franklin Graham. If you write in Jesus, he's not going to be our president, although that would be a great president. Right? It's the3:17 platform that's only gonna matter. So let me give you a couple of core convictions that I have. Number 1, when I go into the voting booth or I do anything I truly truly, very deepest part of3:29 my heart believe that God's ways and biblical and the Bible ways are best for everybody, for human flourishing, for those who are Christians and non, for those who are outside the church or inside the church.3:41 That is a core conviction that I have. Here's number 2. Core conviction I have, 1 of 2 worldviews are ultimately going to lead this country. 1 that is leading us3:53 more in a godless path and 1 that is leading more toward a godly path. Neither party is perfect. Don't you hear me say 1 party's godless and 1 part but there is a4:05 direction, go look at the platform. Core conviction number 3, the reason why I vote, I believe we're blessed. It is a blessing to have the opportunity to vote. Let me ask you a4:17 question. You think Christians and pastors in North Korea would love the opportunity to vote on their next leader? What about Christians in Tehran or Afghanistan? So4:29 folks let me tell you what, governments matter. Who is in charge matters And I feel like I have a great opportunity and a responsibility to vote4:41 my biblical values. Core conviction number 5. I truly truly believe when you look at our country, our constitution, the amendments, and the4:53 Bill of Rights, we have the best constitution in the world and there's not even a close second. I want you to know that. I truly believe it. Give God a hand on that.5:05 Our founding fathers set it up in a in an amazing way, and then my final thing is I don't ever want to waste an opportunity. Let me read this passage to you in Deuteronomy chapter 1. Scott just mentioned it when5:17 he talked about voting. He says, choose some wise understanding and respected men from each of your tribes and I will set them over you. When you go back to the founding of our country, if you5:29 look in Deuteronomy and several different places, and here in a few minutes I probably won't have time to read it because here here's the beauty, at the end of the service today we're gonna baptize in the next 2 services5:38 21 brand new believers. Give God a hand on that. Alright. We can all vote yes on that. Alright. But I want you to know, when our founding fathers put together our constitution,5:50 they were looking at God's word. They were looking at several passages in Deuteronomy, they actually referenced them, our founding fathers did. Exodus 18, we're gonna look at it, I probably won't have time to read it6:00 here in a few seconds. Go open your app, you'll see a lot of Bible verses that support every 1 of my points that I wanna encourage you to read. Man, when our founding fathers set up our country, it was descriptively6:12 Christian but not prescriptively Christian. You say, what's the difference? Our founding fathers described how and what a Christian nation would look like and how it could function. That's descriptive.6:25 Prescriptive, they would have said everybody in our country has to be a Christian. They didn't say that. However, you read and look at the founding fathers and and their life and what they wrote about, they6:37 talked about us being a Christian nation. That's what we were all about. But they didn't prescribe it, they didn't force it just like we as ministers of the gospel in church, we don't force people into salvation, we want6:48 it to be their choice. Alright? Go back to John Adams. Here's what John Adams said about said about our constitution. He said, our constitution was made7:00 only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to govern anyone else. Go back to the New Testament in Acts chapter 5 verse7:12 29, it says Peter, John, and the other apostles replied we must obey God rather than humans. See when you go back to that time they didn't get a vote. Let me ask you a question and you know we said we talked about all7:23 the persecution that Christians are going around the world. Let me ask you a question. Do you think those persecuted Christians in China or different places You know there are missionaries we support, you support every7:33 time you tithe and you give, that are in places and we can't even put their names on our website for fear of their lives. You ask any 1 of those people, would you love the opportunity to vote for a7:45 different leader? They would say absolutely. Go back to the New Testament people right after they were flogged, the New Testament Christians. Hey, would you prefer that not that guy not be in charge? They would say,7:55 yeah. So let me tell you what, I want you to know we need to be willing to vote our biblical conscience. So let me give you a couple of objections that people will throw at you when they say Christians ought not to be8:06 involved in policy. Some people will say, well you know there's the separation of church and state. Okay? Hopefully you've done your research on this. This is a non issue, a8:18 straw argument. If you go look at our Constitution the idea of separation of church and state was never there. That terminology came in 18 o 1 from John Thomas Jefferson,8:30 where the Danbury Baptist in Connecticut wrote a letter to Thomas Jefferson. He was over in France by the way, as an ambassador. They wrote a letter to Thomas Jefferson. Why did they write the letter? Because the8:42 kinetic government were trying to force the Danbury Baptists to become something else. So they wrote a letter and said, hey, what does our constitution say about this state attacking us? Thomas Jefferson writes a8:54 letter back to the Danbury Baptist and he said listen, there is a strict separation between government and the church. He did not say, listen to this, he did not say that Christians and9:05 churches cannot influence the government. He did say the government can influence churches. See, when you think about which way this goes, how many of you are familiar with what a 1 way mirror is?9:17 You could see 1 way but not the other way. If you go look at our constitution and how it was set up, it is we can apply force and encouragement and vote to the9:29 government, but the government can't tell us how to practice our religion. So when someone talks to you about separation of church and state, just look at them say, do you really know what you're talking about? Because9:38 they probably don't. They probably don't. Alright. Here's here's the next 1. Christians, why don't y'all just go preach the gospel and plant churches? People say, and I want you to know as your pastor, I'm a big fan9:50 of preaching the gospel, FYI. I'm a big fan of planting churches, FYI, but we have never been able to plant the first church in North Korea because they don't allow it.10:03 We can't plant a church in Iran right now, the Tehran, First Baptist Church of Tehran, First Presbyterian Church of Tehran. Why? Because the government will not allow it. So I want you to know, yes, I want us to10:15 preach the gospel but I also want us to know, man, who the government is? It truly truly matters. Next objection. A lot of people say, well you know, you Christians, you can't legislate10:27 morality. How many of you ever heard that? Well then why don't we have laws against murder? Because isn't that legislating morality? Why why don't we have laws against10:38 rape? Isn't that kind of legislating morality? Why don't we have laws against incest? Because let's legislate. Why don't we have laws against drinking and driving? Why? Because10:50 we see every law, everybody say every. Every law legislates morality. Everyone. Everyone tells you this is good, this is bad,11:01 all of them are legislating morality. So I want you to know when I go vote, I see it as a way to love my neighbor. It's an opportunity whether they agree with me or not, I truly11:13 go back to my first conviction. I believe God's ways, biblical value, I'm not saying I'm not I'm perfect, this church isn't perfect, no believers are perfect, everybody in this church, we're not. But I also believe I can11:25 love my neighbor by voting biblical values. Here's another 1, you hear it right now especially. How can a Christian vote for, insert the name?11:37 How can a Christian vote for Donald Trump? How many of you have heard that? How can a Christian vote for Kamala? How many of you heard that? I mean the reality of it is put that away. Alright? Because 1 of those 2 people11:49 are gonna win. Right? 1 of those people are gonna win and I want you to know it shouldn't matter because it is a policy, it is what we have. So I can throw away my vote if I want to. But whoever's in that12:00 Oval Office will bring with them a platform that will be followed by 80 percent of their policy, of their their party. Beyond that they will bring several12:12 hundred thousand bureaucrats that you and I will never vote for and they will begin to rewrite things like title 9 and we get no vote. So I want you to know,12:24 listen, when someone says how can so and so vote for this candidate or that candidate, just step back and say I agree. They're both flawed individuals. Which platform do I prefer?12:35 Why should Christians be involved? That's why they shouldn't, just deal with those objections. Jesus was involved in politics and Jesus all the time was having a fight with the Sadducees or the Pharisees or the12:47 Herodians or you know, was saying stuff like, well whose picture's on the coin we'll render under Caesar that which is Caesar, that's the idea of taxes. We all love paying taxes, right? Jesus always was fighting with the12:59 religious and the civil leaders of his day. Look at what it says in Mark chapter 8. Mark chapter 8, here's what Jesus said. He said, be very careful, Jesus warned them, watch out for the yeast13:11 of the Pharisees and that of Herod. He was saying those are 2 different political parties. Man, 1 1 was religious by nature, 1 was liberal not by nature. He says watch out for both of them. He says be13:22 very careful of both of them. And so Jesus was absolutely involved in politics. Here's another reason why I think Christians should vote. Man, we're blessed to have that opportunity. I've said this again13:34 over and over again, man Christians around the world would love to have the opportunity to vote for a leader even flawed ones. I won't read13:46 this passage but Exodus chapter 18 just go read Exodus chapter 18 and you'll go that looks a whole lot like our government here in the US from top to bottom. Why? Because our founding fathers13:58 took it from Exodus chapter 18. Here's another reason why I think Christians should vote. Governments established, and we'll talk about governments here in a couple of weeks from Romans chapter 13, what is the purpose of14:10 government? Governments were established to protect the innocent. I want you to know the number 1 job of our government is not, I'm gonna say14:21 this, is not compassion. It is to protect us, to keep us safe. That's why God established leaders so the innocent would be14:33 protected. Look at Proverbs chapter 14, I love this passage. It says, righteousness exalts a nation but sin condemns any people. Preached a whole series about that through the14:45 summer if you wanna go back and listen to our Kingmaker series, you'll see what happens when Israel had a good king and a bad king and the result of both. And so as we journey forward I want you to think about that.14:57 You know, ran across this, article and I'll just show it to you, we'll put it up on the screen. You'll a lot of times Christians are attacked of you're just the religious religious right. How many of you heard that15:07 phrase? You know the religious right are y'all just checking out on me because I'm talking about Bodhi? Or none of y'all have actually heard that phrase? 3 people raised, how many of heard that? You're just part of the15:17 religious right. Right? Alright. Let's talk about this religious right. And by the way, this isn't my data, this is Pew Research. You can go look it up. It was the article was15:29 printed out April the ninth of 20 24. Let's just talk about this religious right. Alright. Let's walk through it. Number 1, notice all Protestants, 59 percent of all Protestants have a tendency to lean Republican or15:41 be Republican. Republican. 38 percent of all Protestants lean Democrat. What about Catholics? Catholics are a little closer to being split, 52 percent lean Republican or are Republican, and then 44 percent15:53 are not. Mormons, they're the religious right. Alright? If you look at it, that's supposed to be funny by the way. Jewish Orthodox, religious right. Alright? Jewish16:05 other, that's the reformed conservative. If you ask Jews they will say they those aren't Jews, they're really really agnostics. Okay? They have a tendency to lean left. What about Muslims? They16:17 lean hard left. What about atheists? You know, everybody attacks us as being part of the religious right. Why don't they ever talk about the atheist left?16:28 Right? Because it matters who you vote for, but it also matters who you're voting with. How many of you know that? Look at, what about agnostics? 78 percent of agnostics, those say I don't know if if16:40 there's a God, they vote or lean democrat. What about religious nones? Man, so here's the key. We have to go back to what John Adams said. He says our constitution was set up for16:52 moral and religious people. It is ineffective in governing any other. So let me just invite you. I wanted to give you that number just to simply say, hey, listen. Next time someone attacks the religious17:04 right, just ask them about the atheist left. Ask them about the Muslim left. Ask them about the agnostic left. Because see, they don't ever wanna talk about that because it does matter who you vote for,17:16 but it also matters who you vote with. If you want a good verse, here it is. Ecclesiastes chapter 10 verse 2. You're gonna love this verse. You ready for it? Here's what it says. The heart of the wise inclines to the17:26 right, but the heart of the fool. Alright. Now I want you to know, you can use that verse when you17:38 want to. I took that verse totally out of context, but it is an awesome verse. Alright? So that's your pastor and I'll stand out in the atrium. It is a great verse. Alright? So if you ever17:50 just wanna throw that out, but man, the next time someone talks to you about the religious right, talk to them about the atheist left, the Muslim left. Who are voting for? Because our constitution was made for moral and18:01 religious people. So let me give you some issues that matter to me, and I want you to I want you to know that I'm gonna roll through these relatively quickly. And these are issues that matter to me. Just let18:13 me tell you everyone in person, everybody on the line, this is not something the trustees of this church have approved. This is not something our deacons have approved, our stewardship team trust. I didn't run this by18:24 anybody, this is me. So if anybody gets fired for this, it's me. But I wasn't called to be tax exempt, I was called to be your pastor. Do you understand what I'm saying? Alright? So these are my18:36 issues. When I look at platforms, these are my top issues. Now, I'm gonna leave some out that it's a top issue for you. I'm not gonna talk about Israel though I support Israel. I'm talking about what I think is best for18:48 our country because I truly believe what is best for our country is best for the world. I believe that wholeheartedly. So thought number 1. Alright. You ready? Here it is. The idea of religious freedom. Go look at the18:59 party platforms. Look at how the platforms are put into practice in states around our country. Democrats will say they're for religious freedom. They want you to have19:11 the opportunity to choose where you worship, but do not take your faith to school or the office or to your to your business that's your own. We've seen this around the world, right? Cakes,19:23 flowers, stuff like that. They say go be a good Christian, choose whichever church you want to, but don't bring it outside the church. Democrats have a tendency to restrict religious freedom.19:35 Republicans have a tendency to allow it. Not only can you choose your church, but you can practice your faith inside the church and outside the church, and that matters. You say, pastor, is that really gonna happen19:47 here in our country that that you'll be told what to preach? Have you kept an eye on our closest neighbor, Canada? There are certain chapters in the Bible that19:58 preachers cannot preach in Canada or they'll go to jail. You can't go to you can't can't go preach Romans 1, so child of God don't think it can't happen here.20:10 Don't think it can happen here. Here's another 1. I'm gonna give you the second 1. Redefine the family. A redefinition of the family. Democrats are all for it. Anything, anybody, anyone, it doesn't20:22 matter, whatever you configure yourself out. And and I want you to know, Democrats support it. Republicans hold to basically a traditional family. Now I want you to know if you have a20:34 non traditional family in some way, blended family, we support that, but I want you to know I just can't go there. Right? I just can't go there. Beyond here's a here's a third 1, you ready?20:47 Issue of life, abortion. Man, this is real. I put a passage. By the way, each 1 of these have a passage if you wanna see them. I wanna encourage you to open your app. But, man,20:59 God's word tells me we are knit together in our mother's womb. That's what God's word says. I believe that. Therefore, when I look at the21:11 2 platforms, the Democrats almost have a limitless ability for abortion all the way up to and not making this up even after the point21:23 of birth. Republicans have a tendency to restrict it. Now let me just step back and make a statement here. If you go back 30 40 years ago,21:36 both platforms looked almost identical. Go look at it. It was just a different jersey. Both platforms were real close. Let me give you 1 example that relates to this. How many of you remember a21:47 president named Bill Clinton? Democrat? Remember what he said about abortion? 3 words. It should be safe, legal, anybody know the third word? Rare.21:59 Rare. You couldn't run as a democrat with those 3 words today. You couldn't. You could. But he could then. Why? Because if you go back 40 years ago, 50 years ago, man the22:11 platforms were almost the same, the jersey was different. Does that make sense? The plays were almost the same, but the jersey was different. It is not that way anymore. There is a divergent path between the22:23 2 parties. Alright? And we need to keep our eyes open about that. Here's another 1, children transitioning. Just why don't you just go ahead and step right into it pastor?22:37 You know there are things that are happening today if I had told you they were happening they were gonna happen 20 or 30 years ago you'd have looked at me and said you're insane. You'd have said you're insane.22:49 If I'd have told you 20, 30 years ago that we were gonna let our children choose their gender, you said you're crazy. If I'd have told you 20, 30 years ago23:01 that that we were going to in some places allow children to transition without parental knowledge, you would have said you're insane. But that's how far23:13 we've come. Now let me ask you a question. If that much has changed in the last 20 years, think about the next 20 years. Because they're not done.23:25 They're not willing to stop, great, we've arrived. They're continuing to push so I want you to know I am absolutely and at the same point if you've been around our church we're a loving and23:37 compassionate church and if you have a child or someone in your family that's struggling with their gender identity, man we want to wrap our arms around you and love you and care for you, but we also don't want23:49 them to make a mistake forever. I mean think about this, we won't let somebody, some kid drive until they're 16. Why? Because they don't know how to drive. Alright. I've watched some of you24:01 drive. You don't know how to drive either. But at least we can charge you with it. And we won't we won't let them drink until they're 21. They can't vote until they're 18.24:13 They can't join the military until they're 17. Why? Because their brains haven't matured enough and you get a child that is struggling. And let me tell you what, if you've ever if you have kids you've had 1 struggling24:24 and you're only you're only as happy, what's the old statement? You're only as happy as your most unhappy kid. Right? Man, when your kid's struggling so I want you to know, hear me in person or online, if you've got a24:34 kid that is struggling, man, I'm with you. But we can't accommodate. Here's here's the next 1. Morality. Just a general sense, I I I don't have time because24:46 we've got baptism. I had a list about 18 issues, which is generally morality, throw this out throw this out throw this out throw this out say yes to this say yes to yes. Democrats have a tendency to whatever goes.25:00 Republicans, no. Let let let's let's let's pull the reins on that. Let's let's hold it back a bit. Remember our constitution is only good as being a constitution for25:11 a moral and religious people. Let me give you another 1. Border Security. Now we're really stepping into it. Okay? Before y'all are all mad at me, and I'll be25:23 out in the atrium, by the way. Everyone in this room and everyone online is for border security. Let me tell you why I know that.25:36 Cause everyone in here has a front door and a back door. You have a lock. How many of you lock your doors at night? Do you do it because all your neighbors are25:47 criminals? Do you do it because everybody in your apartment complex is a criminal? No. But somebody is. I want you to hear your pastor's heart.25:59 I clearly believe that the vast majority of people coming across our border are pursuing a better life, but not all of them. Plus, I will tell you26:11 as a pastor who's tapped into this, the amount of fentanyl flowing across the border, killing our kids, You go look Collin County, many of the counties26:23 around the nation, fentanyl deaths are going down. Collin County is 1 that's going up. You wanna know why? Because now China is making a new blend of26:35 synthetic fentanyl that Narcan, and by the way lives deaths are going down not because we're using fewer drugs but because Narcan is available. But now there are strands that26:47 Narcan won't touch. Go to the border, sex trafficking. Man, I wanna see a shut it down so we things will be right. So I want you to know I am pro26:59 border security because I'm pro your kids, your security.27:11 And it's not because I believe everybody coming across the border is a bad person because they're not. But I think we have to get a control of Here's another 1, support support for27:23 police. If you wanna know who we are as a church. Okay? This church backs the blue. Okay? And and just just27:35 go talk to some of those people that talked about defunding the police. As a matter of fact, some of y'all moved here from those cities. Why? Because it's utter chaos. And you27:47 say pastor, are you saying that all police officers are are good? No, I'm not. Just like I'm saying, you ever had an air conditioning guy come over and not fix your air condition? Did you stop calling air conditioning27:58 guys? You just called a different 1. Hey, anybody know of a pastor that did a bad thing? You don't stop going to church. So let me tell you, if you wanna know where we're always gonna be as a church, we28:10 absolutely back the blue. Alright? Give God a hand on that. Judges.28:23 Judges. You you you typically have judges that break down into 1 of 2 categories. You have judges who are originalists. Alright? They were considered conservative. In other words, they're gonna take the constitutional28:33 law as it's written and they're gonna apply it. Activist judge want to take what is written, pretty much ignore that and see what society is is doing and where it's heading. Judges matter.28:45 I put a passage in there about judges. Go back to look look at Exodus chapter 18. Man, you better choose judges to preside well and make good and godly decision over you. Alright.28:57 Here's another 1. Since I've just stepped in it, let me just go ahead and keep doing it. Women in sports. Women in sports. If I told you 30 years ago, we were gonna let a dude in high school and college29:09 who couldn't make it on the men's swim team, just change 1 year and beat all the women in the women's side, you would have said pastor you're nuts. But it's happening.29:21 I am pro protecting our girls. I am pro protecting our women. I am pro protecting our ladies. Alright? So I want you to know that's where we29:33 stand and this may well be my last Sunday to talk to you from this stage. Alright? But I just these are issues that matter to me. Didn't I say that? This isn't church29:44 position, and these are issues that matter to me, and hopefully I'm sharing them with grace. But I I want you to know it just amazes me that that we're gonna destroy ladies.29:56 Why? Because somebody in Washington you didn't elect reinterpreted title 9. Remember the bureaucrats that go up with whoever wins? And now everybody's30:08 gotta live with it. Thank God for the 18, I think it's now 18 states attorney generals are suing the federal government because they've rewritten or redefined a reapplied title 9. So you say alright30:20 pastor. Let's say your preferred party doesn't win. How am I going30:32 to respond? Go look at your notes. First Timothy chapter 2, I urge you then to pray for everyone in authority over you, for kings and30:43 princes and I will do that and I will be a good citizen, I will do my best to be a godly citizen and I will preach the gospel and we will plant churches.30:55 Alright? So right now I just wanna pray and if you are a baptism candidate, I wanna encourage you to come on down and begin to make your way down here. We've got a number, but I'm just gonna pray and let you know that31:06 even after baptism service, man, if you need to pray at the altar, I wanna invite you to be here because our altar team is going to be down front. So let me pray. Baptism candidates go ahead and make your way down. God,31:17 thank you so much for this day. God, thank you for the opportunity to deal with a tough topic, a hard reality check for all of us. God, my prayer is that I presented this with with a kind and a31:29 generous and a grateful heart but also presenting the truth. God, these are truly my issues. Others out here might have different issues. You might many might come and say you forgot this 1 or that 1.31:41 God, were just my top issues. So God as we leave here today let us do it with gentleness but God I pray that every Christian understands we are blessed with the opportunity to vote and we should31:53 not miss any opportunities. In Jesus name we pray, amen and amen.
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