For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast
Older episodes
- 169Enneagram Threes - Lisa Whelchel on The AchieversThe next stop on the For the Love of The Enneagram train takes us to the land of the Enneagram Threes (also known as The Achievers). Leading us today are two Threes—someone you may know named Jen Hatmaker who’s a Three, and Lisa Whelchel. Lisa’s an actor (you may know her best as Blair from the ‘80s sitcom “The Facts of Life”), author, speaker, and life coach who is not only a Three herself, but who also raised a Three, and she’s just walked through a twelve-year journey of deconstructing and reconstructing everything about her life: everything she knows and everything she believed about herself and her faith. She’s dismantled so many internal walls that now, in her words, the love can flow without blocks. Lisa has bravely stepped out of safety and security in the pursuit of being whole, though her natural instincts told her to hide from the shame and fear she felt. She’s learned to overcome crowd-pleasing in order to live her own truth and be her most authentic self, and she shares what it looks like to be in a marriage and in conflict with someone of this type. And stay tuned at the end to hear from composer Ryan O’Neal (AKA Sleeping At Last), who shares his thoughts behind the music he created for the incredibly special Enneagram Three in his life. * * *Thank you to our sponsors!FabFitFun | Go to fabfitfun.com and use the code HATMAKER at checkout to get $10 off your first box. #fabfitfunpartnerBestFiends | Download for FREE at the Apple App Store or Google Play.Ancestry | Head to Ancestry.com/forthelove to get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial.
- 170Enneagram Fours - Ian Cron on The IndividualistsOur Enneagram series continues with another type who rounds out the heart triad: the beautifully complex Type Fours (also known as The Romantics). To lead us on all things Type Four, we have an incredible returning guest: a Four himself, Ian Morgan Cron. Ian wears many hats—Enneagram expert, author of The Road Back to You, host of Typology Podcast, priest and psychotherapist, to name a few—and his Fourness is revealed in his beautiful, open posture toward humanity. He walks us through how Fours believe that they have an “unredeemable deficiency,” how they feel a little different and off-center, and have a vague dissatisfaction with themselves. Typically seen as the most complex of all the Enneagram numbers, Fours seek to be special in some way to fill this inner void, and the road to being a healthy Four is when they realize that “specialness” isn’t their sole path to being loved. Ian shares personally his experience that the superpower of a Four is emotional intuitiveness and empathy; Fours are equipped to come alongside people in their dark moments and walk through the suffering with them, and they tend to gravitate towards spaces in which they can uniquely contribute to conversation. Conversely, Fours in conflict tend to withdraw, and Ian shares how they can be lovingly drawn out. And don’t forget to stick around until the end to hear from composer Ryan O’Neal (AKA Sleeping At Last), who shares his process for crafting a music piece as uniquely complex as Type Fours.
- 171[BONUS] White Women’s Toxic Tears, with Lisa Sharon HarperIn light of the uprisings of the past weeks, it is not enough to perform wokeness. We need true solidarity. True solidarity requires an understanding of the historical and cultural roots and current-day patterns of white women’s betrayals of people of color. It will also require repair. This is a raw, honest, informative, solidarity-building conversation with author and Freedom Road founder and president Lisa Sharon Harper.
- 172Enneagram Fives - Dr. Avon Manney & Knox McCoy on The InvestigatorsToday we begin a deep dive into the head triad, starting with Type Fives—the Investigators. And because there’s so much to learn about the complex Fives, we have not one but two guests to share their input: Enneagram expert Dr. Avon Manney, and podcaster/author/Enneagram Five Knox McCoy. Dr. Avon (a Nine married to a Five!) shares how she started applying the Enneagram to her osteopathy practice so she could help patients heal emotional issues that were manifesting in her patients’ bodies. She talks about how Fives are explorers who want to know how and why things work the way they do. Taking Dr. Avon’s insights a step further and giving us a peek under the hood, Knox explains how that exploration shows up in his own life—as a Five, he’s motivated to make sure he shows up as competent and prepared in every situation. Knox also breaks down something Fives suffer from called “catastrophic depletion,” which basically means Fives have a limited energy reservoir, and once it’s gone for the day, it is gone. As profoundly efficient fixers, Fives possess a beautiful clarity of thought, a thirst for knowledge, and an unparalleled loyalty for those they love. And just wait until you make it to the end, when we hear from composer Ryan O’Neal (AKA Sleeping At Last), about how he completed a music piece inspired by Fives—his longest piece in the whole series!* * *Thank you to our sponsors!Ancestry | Head to ancestry.com/forthelove to get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial. KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month on select crates at kiwico.com/forthelove. Laurel Springs | Register your child at laurelsprings.com/forthelove today and receive a waived registration fee.
- 173✅Enneagram Sixes - Ashton Brye on The LoyalistsOn today’s peek behind the Enneagram curtain, we get to learn all about Type Sixes—the Loyalists—and what makes them tick. Graphic designer, Enneagram artist, and Disney cast member Ashton Brye shares how she discovered the Enneagram, applied her own artistic and pop culture spin on it, and voila! Her Instagram following @ashton.creates skyrocketed, all born out of her desire to learn more about all the Enneagram types. As a Six herself, Ashton breaks down for us how Sixes have a deep longing for safety and security, which they find through preparedness. Unfortunately, that need to be on top of things can often be mistakenly labeled for anxiety and fear. Sixes are crazy loyal and responsible, and they value structure. As Ashton shares, when a Six goes in on something, they go all in--which is why they make excellent friends. Ashton talks a little bit about how it’s hard for Sixes to turn their minds off and relax without thinking about what needs to get done in the future, that for Sixes, it’s a balance of learning what can wait. In conflict, like in everything else they do, Sixes are all in, and they crave reassurance from others that you aren’t going to leave them. And PS: don’t forget to stick around until the end of the episode to hear composer Ryan O’Neal (AKA Sleeping at Last) talk about how he crafted a soothing, safe, and whimsical musical piece inspired by type Sixes. * * *Thank you to our sponsors!Noom | Start your trial today at noom.com/fortheloveBetterHelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/fortheloveLaurel Springs | Register your child at laurelsprings.com/forthelove today and receive a waived registration fee
- 174[BONUS] Jen and Sydney Hatmaker On Being Gay and LovedOn this incredibly meaningful, special bonus episode of For the Love, in honor of Pride Month, a mother and daughter come together to have a frank and beautiful conversation about what it’s like to grow up as the daughter of a popular Christian author and speaker and in a household steeped in the church . . . and realize you’re gay. This is Jen and Sydney Hatmaker’s experience—and in this episode, Sydney and her mom tell their story so that parents, family, and friends of LGBTQ+ kids who need trustworthy voices to lead them into love and affirmation will find hope here. Sydney bravely and tenderly shares how she grappled with reconciling her sexuality and her spirituality, all the while wondering if God would still love her if she decided to build a life where she could be who she was meant to be. The pair candidly discuss Sydney’s initial silent journey and Jen’s deep regret at not being more aware of what her daughter needed during these early days as Sydney wrestled alone with who she was. Jen and Sydney make a call to Christians to look at what it means to really love our LGBTQ+ family: recognizing them wholly as God’s children, who are wholly loved by God. Sydney also gives us insight into how we can come alongside our LGBTQ+ family by showing us what meaningful allyship looks like: supporting and protecting those who are subject to marginalization with tangible actions filled with love. * * *Thank you to our episode sponsors!Ancestry | Get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial at ancestry.com/fortheloveQueer RelationTips Podcast | Listen and subscribe today, wherever you get your podcasts.
- 175Enneagram Sevens - Bob Goff on The EnthusiastsEnneagram Sevens! You can’t say it without an exclamation point, right? This week we look at what many consider to be the most “fun” number on the Enneagram—known as The Enthusiasts for good reason! To guide us is a true Seven among Sevens and friend of the podcast, Bob Goff. Bob is a man of many hats—attorney, honorary consul, author, and humanitarian, to name a few. He’s here to share about the power of a Seven’s joy, their ability to have big dreams and ideas, and that a Seven’s enthusiasm isn’t as spontaneous as you would think—there’s planning and thought behind it. As part of the thinking triad, these joyful strategists are full of situational awareness. They’re in tune with examining why they do the things they do, but they also carry a deep fear of rejection. Sevens possess a beautiful, natural curiosity about possibilities. They’re excellent at saying, “Let’s just see what will happen . . .” and they’re brave enough to take those chances. Sevens strive for meaning, not just surface-level joy. As Jen puts it, “These are people that really come alongside the rest of us and go, ‘What's your dream? You can do this.’” Also, if you stick around to the end of the episode, you’ll be delighted to hear composer Ryan O’Neal (AKA Sleeping at Last) talk about how he crafted a piece for Sevens inspired by Disney classics like Peter Pan and Inside Out—and you’ll hear Bob Goff himself, who contributed his own ukulele stylings to the piece (such a Seven thing to do!). * * *Thank you to our sponsors!FabFitFun | Get $10 off your first box when you go to https://fabfitfun.com and use the code FTL at checkoutJen Hatmaker Book Club | Join today at https://jenhatmakerbookclub.comJo Saxton Leadership Coaching | Sign up for a 30-day trial (and access the workshop led by Be the Bridge’s LaTasha Morrison) at http://josaxtonleadershipcoaching.com/forthelove
- 176Enneagram Eights - Sarajane Case & Abi Robins on The ChallengersMake way for the Enneagram Eights! On this week’s episode, we get to chat with not one, but two experts about the steely armor and tender insides that make up The Challengers, as they’re sometimes called. Sarajane Case of Enneagram & Coffee helps us unpack the hallmark characteristic of an Eight—their strength—and reveals that an Eight’s strength typically stems from childhood happenings that trigger the notion that they have to take care of themselves, which they can also wrap around their loved ones and those in need. This protective instinct means that Eights aren’t intimidated by opposition, but they do fear being betrayed or controlled—and when that happens, it can appear that Eights don’t need a shoulder to lean on. But, as Sarajane shows us, in order to love an Eight well, they need to see strength in us so that they can release the heavy responsibility they feel to carry the world’s weight on their shoulders. Abi Robins of Conscious Enneagram shares their expertise as not only an Eight themselves, but also as a teacher of The Narrative Enneagram. Abi also breaks down a new-to-us Enneagram term called “subtypes,” of which there are three—self-preservation, one-to-one, and social—and shows how these subtypes affect the way our Enneagram numbers play out in the world. Abi opens up about the incredible resilience that Eights possess and vulnerably shares what type Eight growth looks like to someone with a marginalized identity. Abi explains that a heated exchange that may look like an argument to some types is just a problem-solving, connective conversation to an Eight, and how that willingness to engage with an Eight, even when it’s messy, is the key to unlocks an Eight’s trust. Make sure you listen all the way through the hear how composer Ryan O’Neal (AKA Sleeping at Last) created a piece as strong as the Eights are, with a little touch of vulnerability that those who are close to Eights are lucky enough to glimpse.* * *Rothy's | Check out all the stylish and sustainable shoes (and amazing bags!) at rothys.com/fortheloveBetterHelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/fortheloveStamps.com | Start your 4-week trial (plus, get free postage and a digital scale) at stamps.com, and enter FORTHELOVE
- 177Enneagram Nines - Sarah Bessey on The PeacemakersTo close our spectacular Enneagram series, last but certainly not least (we promise, Nines!), we’re diving into the earnest and endearingly sincere Peacemakers with Jen’s wonderful friend and all-around good human, author Sarah Bessey. Fondly called the crown of the Enneagram, Type Nines have the gift to be fully empathetic, to love and accept without judgement because they can see others as made in God’s image. For a Nine, everyone belongs. This type may seem slow to move sometimes—that’s because they’re content to live in this very moment. Sarah demonstrates the ways that Nines can be mediators, but she also shares how a Nine’s shadow side leans away from conflict and into numbness and routine, pushing them to be a little sloth-like. In their unhealthiest state, a Nine’s identity morphs into whoever’s surrounding them at the moment. But as they grow, Nines realize they don’t have to sacrifice who they are just to keep the peace—their voices are valuable and deserve to be heard. Stay tuned ‘til the end to hear how Ryan O’Neal (AKA Sleeping at Last) created a piece that was extremely vulnerable and painfully honest, as he had to confront his own weaknesses as a type Nine in order to grow into his full potential.* * *Thank you to our sponsors!Laurel Springs | Register your child at laurelsprings.com/forthelove today and receive a waived registration feeKiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month on select crates at kiwico.com/fortheloveThirdLove | Get 15% off your first order at thirdlove.com/forthelove
- 178[Summer Best of For the Love] Barbara Brown Taylor: Learning to Walk in the DarkEver wish you had a toolkit tailor-made to get you through 2020? Us too. That’s why we pulled together a few of our favorite teachers who have graced the podcast over the years, so we can brush up on the important lessons they taught us and tools they gave us to meet this moment. First up is the matriarch of our favorite “What is saving your life right now?” question—Barbara Brown Taylor! Barbara is a New York Times bestselling author, teacher, and Episcopal priest, and she came on the show during our “For the Love of Exploring Our Faith” series in 2018. Her book Learning to Walk in the Dark was featured on the cover of TIME Magazine, and in 2014, TIME also included her on its annual list of Most Influential People (PS she also appeared on Super Soul Sunday with Oprah, so no big deal). Long a favorite author of Jen’s, Barbara has a unique way of sharing essential truths about beauty and about God, and shows us that it cannot be contained inside any walls that people build. Her view is that Jesus “placed higher value on human relationships than on religion. He never told His followers to love their religion—just their neighbors, their enemies, and God." * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove Ancestry | Get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial at ancestry.com/forthelove Camano Island Coffee | Sign up for the Coffee Lovers Membership and get $20 off your first shipment at camanoislandcoffee.com/forthelove
- 179[Summer Best of For the Love] You Are Wholly Good: Osheta Moore and Embracing “Shalom”Our second Summer Best Of guest is a teacher who taught us how to embrace peace with others, but also within ourselves. Osheta Moore is a writer, speaker, podcaster, and a faith groundbreaker. She’s also a powerful leader on racial reconciliation and equality, and through it all, she teaches that God wants each of us to be whole, vibrant, and flourishing. In her book and podcast called Shalom Sistas, Osheta breaks down 12 ways we can turn “shalom” into an action. She shows us how to become peacemakers in our everyday lives—not just with each other, but with ourselves and with God. Osheta shows us that peace is more than just a feeling. It’s the belief that God created us perfectly, just as we are, and the bodies that we live and practice shalom in, from the color of our skin to the shape of our hips, are wholly good. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Ancestry | Get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial at ancestry.com/forthelove Green Chef | Get $80 off your first month plus free shipping on your first box at greenchef.com/forthelove80 Camano Island Coffee | Sign up for the Coffee Lovers Membership and get $20 off your first shipment at camanoislandcoffee.com/forthelove
- 180[Summer Best Of For the Love] The Glory of God in Our Pain: Kaitlin Curtice & the Power of LamentWhen our third Summer Best Of teacher speaks, people listen—and we couldn’t forget the powerful words she shared on For the Love in 2019. Raised a Southern Baptist, as she grew older Kaitlin Curtice began to explore her family’s rich history in the Potawatomi Citizen Band. Kaitlin tells us what life is like as an indigenous woman in the United States today, how she’s teaching her kids about their heritage and how we can rally around teachers of color during their hardest moments. Kaitlin reminds us we have a responsibility to incorporate a wide range of voices into our world and remember the power of empathizing with an experience different from our own. One of the most poignant lessons she gives us: God is is inviting us into the sacred, and it’s not in a far-off sunbeam or reserved for the church pew—the sacred is all around us, from the daffodils on the street corner to the popsicle-stained smile of our kid, even as we are consoled in our pain and grief. God’s glory is in everyone and everything. We only need eyes to see it. Be sure to check out her new book “Native.” * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Noom |Start your trial today at noom.com/forthelove Rothy’s |Check out all the amazing shoes (and bags!) available right now at rothys.com/forthelove BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove
- 181[Summer Best Of For the Love] Small Steps to a Happier Life: Gretchen RubinWhen lawyer-turned-writer Gretchen Rubin first came on the show in 2019, we were dazzled by the wisdom and tools she shared on how to live with more contentment, right where we are. A decade ago, Gretchen fancied herself a happy person. She had a job she liked, a husband and two daughters she loved, a life she enjoyed. But one day she found herself wondering, “Could I be happier?” So she set out to change her life—not in a blow-it-all-up-and-move-across-the-world kind of way, but with small steps over one year. Gretchen documented her experiment to live happier in the blockbuster New York Times bestseller The Happiness Project, and has inspired millions to improve their lives and find contentment. Jen and Gretchen talk about why it’s okay to pursue happiness in a world filled with hard things, and the little ways we can reach for a richer, more satisfying life. Gretchen shows how easy it is to work “happiness habits” into our lives (Jen adopted one immediately after this interview!) and how these small steps can yield big, long-term results. And don’t forget to check out Gretchen’s latest book Outer Order, Inner Calm. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! ThirdLove | Get 15% off your first order at thirdlove.com/forthelove KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month, plus FREE shipping on any crate line at kiwico.com/forthelove Stamps.com | Start your 4-week trial (plus, get free postage and a digital scale) at stamps.com, and enter FORTHELOVE
- 182[Summer Best Of For the Love] Actually Believing God Loves You Changes Everything: Jeff ChuSince journalist (and now podcaster!) Jeff Chu came on the show in spring of 2019, we haven’t forgotten his poignant storytelling or his answer to the powerful question he’s asked himself since he was a kid: “Does Jesus really love me?” Jeff grew up immersed in a family of theologians, where knowing and sticking to the Bible’s rules were prized currency. As Jeff approached high school, he realized he was gay. Over time, while he prayed for God to change who he was, Jeff threw himself into his work to escape his inner turmoil and realized he was a gifted storyteller who loved talking with people from all walks of life. A few years ago, Jeff found himself on the road, searching for the answer to his long-held question across America as he interviewed everyone from nice church ladies to members of the Westboro Baptist Church. And as he talked to more and more people about their spiritual beliefs, he concluded that, yes—even though Jeff doesn’t feel like it some days—Jesus really does love us all. And if we actually believed He did, we would speak differently, tweet differently, love differently—in a nutshell, believing we’re loved would transform our lives. And don’t forget to check out Jeff’s brand-new podcast called “Evolving Faith,” which he’s co-hosting with FTL fan favorite Sarah Bessey! * * * Thank you to our sponsors! FabFitFun | Use coupon code “FTL” for $10 off your first box at fabfitfun.com #fabfitfunpartner BetterHelp |Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove Camano Island Coffee | Sign up for the Coffee Lovers Membership and get $20 off your first shipment at camanoislandcoffee.com/forthelove
- 183Ending Black Oppression and Celebrating Black Dignity with Alencia JohnsonToday we open a new chapter of For the Love, where we’ll celebrate the beauty, wholeness, and dignity of Black Lives. At the same time, we’ll also explore the roots of the recent growing advocacy and racial reckoning with experts who will guide us through different facets of what it’s like to be Black in America—in education, health, culture, the church. We’ll unpack how the Black experience differs from the white experience, with true understanding of the gaps in these collective experiences becoming the catalyst for necessary change. Leading off this series is Alencia Johnson, who is the chief impact officer and founder of 1063 West Broad, a company focusing on social impact, brand engagement, and communication strategy (you may remember Alencia from the #sharethemicnow campaign, when she took over Jen’s Instagram to share some deep truths). Alencia helps us examine the intersectionality of racism and gender as she unspools more than 400 years of Black oppression in America, and helps us examine what our country could look like if we invested in the safety and health of ALL communities. Alencia longs to see action behind the words of those who have actual power to create change, and challenges us to implement that change swiftly to systems that uphold racism—and most importantly, sustain the change. Tackling some hard-hitting topics, Alencia touches on white fragility, voter suppression, and what “defunding the police” really means as she helps us imagine how our actions toward these problems might mirror the actions of an aggrieved, change-making, table-flipping Jesus in such a time as this. * * * Thank you to our sponsors!LAUREL SPRINGS | Register your child at laurelsprings.com/forthelove today and receive a waived registration fee.ANCESTRY| Head to ancestry.com/forthelove to get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial.CAMANO ISLAND COFFEE|Sign up for your Coffee Lover’s Membership, and get $20 off your first shipment at camanoislandcoffee.com/forthelove.
- 184CeCe Jones-Davis: Realigning the Gears of the US Justice SystemAs lawyer and activist Bryan Stevenson puts it, slavery never actually ended—it just evolved, and today it looks like mass incarceration. In the past fifty years, we’ve seen the prison population skyrocket from 200,000 in 1970 to 2.2 million in 2020. In fact, America holds just 5% of the world’s population but more than 25% of the world’s prisoners, where the Black population clock in five times the rate of inmates as the white population. It is imperative that our generation abolish the overcriminalization of Black women, children, and men. And today we’re learning a bit more from CeCe Jones-Davis on how to bring that world to fruition. She’s an activist, a worship leader, and a teacher of social gospel who’s made it her mission to expose the underbelly of the US criminal justice system as she fights for the freedom of a man she believes has been wrongfully convicted: Julius Jones. CeCe also shares the influences who showed her the way toward pursuing justice and life experiences that broke her heart and gave her a passion to advocate for others. CeCe reminds us that realigning the gears of the justice system is too big a task for one person to bear alone—but if we each pick up our small piece, it’s a load we can carry together.* * *Thank you to our sponsors!Noom |Start your trial today at noom.com/fortheloveAncestry | Get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial at ancestry.com/fortheloveBetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove
- 185[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Nora McInerny’s “No Happy Endings”Want a sneak peek into the book club of your dreams? Then allow us to present: the Jen Hatmaker Book Club! From time to time, we’ll drop in with what we’re reading in hopes you’ll join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com—because we *know* you’ll love it. This month's book has been an over-the-top experience for all of us. We read No Happy Endings by Nora McInerny, and it’s resonated from top to bottom in our community. Nora makes a living talking to people about life's hardest moments, and she speaks from experience. She lost her second baby, her father, and her young husband over the course of six weeks when she was 31 years old. Yet, she’s chosen to channel her grief into two bestselling memoirs and a stellar podcast called Terrible, Thanks for Asking. She’s a master storyteller who brings heart, transparency, and even levity to the most difficult and uncomfortable conversations that most of us spend our lives trying to avoid. And through it all, Nora’s a reliable, trustworthy guide as we journey along our own suffering and grief and loss. * * *Thank you to our sponsors!BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove Stamps.com | Start your 4-week trial and get a 4-week trial, plus free postage and a digital scale without a long-term commitment! Go to stamps.com, enter FORTHELOVE.Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join our sisterhood today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com
- 186Going to Church Shouldn't Hurt: Alicia Crosby on Religious Trauma’s Effect on Black LivesGod created a beautiful world, filled with people who share love, creativity, friendship and hope in all kinds of ways. For thousands of years, some have tried to use religion to wield power and authority over people around the globe, claiming “their” way was the “right” way to gain access to God. That’s how the seeds of religious trauma are sown. And through generations, we’ve seen members of the white American Christan church push Black and brown people away from the center of the church’s stories in an attempt to gain control over those cultures. But as justice educator and equity consultant Alicia Crosby reminds us, we gain so much when we center stories that have been pushed to the margins, when we allow ourselves to be curious about ourselves and other cultures. Alicia shares her own history in the church as a Black queer woman, and how, after her “burn it all down” phase, she’s learned to embrace the beauty of who she is and how she chooses to express her faith in God’s love for her. Jen and Alicia dive into why it’s important to create protective spaces for affinity groups of all kinds (everything from parents, to race and cultural groups, to LGBTQ+ spaces), and why sitting down at the table is the most equalizing force in our universe. * * *Thank you to our episode sponsors!Author School | Reserve your spot today at authorschool.com/jenhatmakerRothy’s | Check out all the amazing shoes and bags available right now at rothys.com/fortheloveThirdLove | Go to thirdlove.com/forthelove to find your perfect-fitting bra, and get 15% off your first purchase! Jen Hatmaker’s FIERCE Mask | Get yours right now at jenhatmaker.com/shop
- 187The Black Woman’s Fight to Be Well, with Christina M. RiceThough many of our country’s systems of care desperately need an overhaul, there’s one system in particular that could improve greatly to help Black Americans: healthcare. It might be unimaginable that we might get lesser care, for example, if we found ourselves in a medical emergency or were giving birth to our child. But Black women and men find themselves in these situations often, where healthcare professionals aren’t listening to their needs or taking time to understand their health concerns, and this sometimes leads to disastrous consequences—even death. These healthcare gaps are part of a feedback loop where many Black Americans find themselves. Many times, it starts with a huge imbalance in economic resources, which leads to a lack of access to healthy food, gyms, nutritional education, and as our guest today says, “places that are considered well.” Christina M. Rice is a wellness expert and chief experience officer of OMNoire, a social wellness community for Black women and women of color dedicated to living well. Christina shares about her own wellness experiences as a Black woman, and how finding yoga helped her realize the need for wellness spaces where Black women and women of color feel seen and welcome. Christina describes why it’s so important for everyone to prioritize the health of Black women and men. Tackling healthcare inequity may be daunting, but siblings everywhere must speak up and do our part to amplify voices of color so that Black bodies are allowed to flourish.* * *Thank you to our sponsors!Author School | Reserve your spot today at https://authorschool.com/jenhatmakerBetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove Jen Hatmaker’s FIERCE Mask | Get yours right now at https://jenhatmaker.com/shopKiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month—plus FREE shipping on any crate line—at http://kiwico.com/forthelove
- 188Celebrating the Rich Legacy of Black Culture, Art & Fashion in America, with Dr. Tanisha C. FordBlack culture is central to American culture—we simply don’t have America without having the Black experience, born of slavery and systemic racism and white supremacy, of physical and mental and emotional pain. But through generations, Black women and men have passed down stories given from their mothers and grandmothers. They’ve cooked and sang and danced and played the most beautiful music. They’ve wrote and dreamed and created. Black culture has inspired us for hundreds of years as it has woven its way into the tapestry of American life. And today, we’re going to talk about the richness of it all with Dr. Tanisha C. Ford, a cultural critic and professor of history at CUNY. Dr. Ford shares the artists and icons that shaped her world as a young Black woman growing up (everyone from her own mother and her leather jackets, to the music of Aretha Franklin and TLC, Roberta Flack and Mary J. Blige). Dr. Ford shows us how looking deeply at culture helps us see the threads of politics and society woven within. We learn why cultural appropriation is tied to systems of exploitation. We see why we need to shift our eyes away from history books that haven’t centered important Black pioneers like Anna Julia Cooper and Ida B. Wells, why everyone needs to read words from thinkers like James Baldwin and Audre Lorde. We see how Shirley Chisholm paved the way for Kamala Harris. We see the beauty and strength of artists like Nina Simone and Billie Holiday, and how they birth artists like Alicia Keys and Janelle Monáe. And through it all we see how new forms of technology have carried Black voices to new corners of the world for decades, planing the seeds for social media to blossom into a powerful force for the change that we’re seeing today.* * * Thank you to our sponsors!Author School | Reserve your spot today at https://authorschool.com/jenhatmakerNoom | Sign up for your trial at http://noom.com/forthelove Jenni Kayne | Get 20% off your first order! Go to https://jennikayne.com, promo code FORTHELOVEFabFitFun | Use coupon code FTL for $10 off your first box at https://fabfitfun.com #fabfitfunpartner
- 189Centering Mental Health & Self-Care in Black America, with Dr. Chanequa Walker-BarnesCultivating a healthy mind is essential for our entire well-being. Psychologist and theologian Dr. Chanequa Walker-Barnes joins us For the Love of Black Lives series to help us unpack how the anxiety and trauma carried through generations of Black Americans affects the flourishing of communities of every stripe (and newsflash: the trauma we experience can be passed down through four generations after us). For so long, Black women have been praised as “strong,” and they absolutely are. But when we only view Black women as unshakeable “superwomen,” we take away their right to vulnerability, their right to care for themselves, and their right to be cared for by someone else. And instead, we hand them a standard that’s impossible to achieve—which, as anyone knows who’s tried to achieve something that can’t be attained, causes shame and depression. Dr. Chanequa describes the effects of living in a community where anxiety is normal for everyone. As she says, “I was never taught to think of what I had as anxiety, even though now I realize, on both sides of my family, there’s anxiety.” She explains why it’s vital for Black women and men to have access to Black mental healthcare providers, so clients can feel truly seen and heard, and receive the true care they need. And above all, Dr. Chanequa reminds us that every Black woman, child, and man is worthy of self-care. They are worthy to notice and treat their pain and anxiety, so they can flourish in wholeness. * * *Thank you to our sponsors!BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove Laurel Springs | Register your child at laurelsprings.com/forthelove today and receive a waived registration feeStamps.com | Start your 4-week trial, plus free postage and a digital scale without a long-term commitment! Go to stamps.com, enter FORTHELOVE
- 190[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Sejal Badani’s “The Storyteller’s Secret”Want a sneak peek into the book club of your dreams? Then allow us to present: the Jen Hatmaker Book Club! From time to time, we’ll drop in with what we’re reading in hopes you’ll join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com—because we *know* you’ll love it. This month, we read the gorgeous bestselling novel The Storyteller’s Secret by lawyer-turned-writer Sejal Badani. Sejal gives us a behind the scenes look at what it was like to write a fiction story that’s deeply rooted in her own family history, and how examining the lives of her ancestors helped unravel her emotions about her own upbringing. What began as a way to break free from family secret-keeping became a way for Sejal to explain her heritage and history to her children. Writing Storyteller also became a method of healing, and Sejal shares how exposing the most vulnerable parts of who we are can help create a better world for someone else. * * *Thank you to our sponsors!BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove Jen’s Fierce Mask | Get the cutest mask ever at jenhatmaker.com/shopJen Hatmaker Book Club | Join our sisterhood today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com
- 191“Education Is Freedom Work”: Dr. Monique Morris on Investing in Black StudentsHaving access to learning is a portal to opportunity, a key to unlocking your dreams and leaving doors open for those who come after you. That’s what education has been for Dr. Monique Morris, an author, scholar, justice educator and die-hard Prince fan who, in sixth grade, found herself at a fork in the road. She got into a fight with a boy who’d provoked her. And instead of suspending her, expelling her, or arresting her and pushing her away, Dr. Morris’ teachers reconnected her to her learning community—a key moment in the life of a girl who’d been dealing with sexual abuse and violence in her home. This moment of restoration paved the path for Dr. Morris to go on to earn a doctorate in education. Others in Dr. Morris’ situation haven’t been as fortunate, and find their studies interrupted by disciplinary action and a descent down the slippery slope known commonly as the “school to prison pipeline,” where they are pushed out of the education experience and criminalized by administrators. Dr. Morris uses her own education and experience to advocate for Black and brown students, encouraging schools to look at themselves as places of healing and restoration, not punishment, so that more students of color can become the scholars they are meant to be. Because no person is “unrecoverable,” and the important“freedom work of education begins when teachers ultimately see themselves as healers.* * *Thank you to our sponsors!Rothy’s | Check out all the amazing shoes and bags available right now at http://rothys.com/forthelove Jenni Kayne | Get 20 percent off your first order! Go to http://jennikayne.com/, enter code FORTHELOVE at checkout.“2 Hearts” film | Only in theaters October 16! https://2heartsthefilm.com/
- 192Empowering Black Entrepreneurs: Jessica O. Matthews Turns Adversity into StrengthWhat does it mean to build the world in a way where every single person, no matter their color, gender, ability or religion has access to security and opportunity? That’s a question inventor and entrepreneur Jessica O. Matthews has spent much of her life asking. Jessica is the CEO of Uncharted Power, a company looking to build sustainable infrastructure in the world—which Jessica launched when she was just twenty-two years old! She shares the legacy of curiosity and hard work her parents passed onto her, and why having countless hmm moments leads to that one a-ha! moment. Jessica and Jen hash out the opportunities the world has left on the table of innovation and why Jessica’s place at several intersections—a Black woman who’s a dual US/Nigerian citizen—helps her recognize developments that are still possible for parts of the world that typically don’t receive investment. Because as Jessica says: “I have the ability to not see the world as it is but to see the world as it should be. That's something that would not have happened not only if I wasn't just Nigerian American, but if I wasn't a woman of color.”* * *Thank you to our sponsors!BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month plus FREE shipping on any crate line at https://kiwico.com/forthelove “2 Hearts” movie | Mark your calendar—“2 Hearts” is in theaters only nationwide on October 16! https://2heartsthefilm.com/
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