For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast
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- 361Facing the Challenges of the Sandwich Generation with Jenny HuttAre you smack dab in the middle of the Sandwich Years? That precarious time where you’re squeezed between the demands of caring for aging parents and still supporting children? We’re here for you, and we’ve got a friend to the show who is living it out in real time, sharing how she’s getting through it all. Jenny Hutt was the host of the Just Jenny Show on Sirius XM and is now hosting her own daily podcast–all while dealing with the long-term care of her father (and his recent death) and the launching of her adult children out into the world. Jenny and Jen discuss unique issues relevant to the Sandwich Generation: Learning to re-calibrate your role as a parent in the lives of your newly “launched into the world” kids Dealing with unresolved parent/child issues that sometimes arise with the death of a parent Recognizing generational anxiety and equipping ourselves and our children with the tools to handle it The importance of relying on a strong network of family and friends to draw from during this time (not being afraid to ask for help). Having the hard conversations with your parents about being prepared for their passing (and also making sure you’re taking care of that for your children too) So whether you’re managing being part of the sandwich generation right now, or you’re mentally preparing yourself for it, or you know someone who is facing it head on, there’s something for all of us to take away from this candid and vulnerable convo with Jen and Jenny.* * *Thank you to our sponsors!FOCL | Your personal dream team of premium hemp CBD + 5 soothing botanicals for a full night of deep, restorative sleep. Get 20% off at FOCL.com using code FORTHELOVE. MeCourse on Parenting Tweens & Teens | Get help parenting during the tween and teen years from Jen and Mercedes Samudio. Visit mecourse.org and sign up today! Thought-Provoking Quotes“Somebody should have said to us before we had kidS: ‘you're gonna have children and you're gonna be tired and it's gonna be fun when they're babies, but it's also gonna be awful when they're babies. And then, they're gonna grow up and they're gonna leave you. And when they leave you, you're gonna feel like they're gone for good. And you're also gonna feel like you are not gonna make it.’” - Jenny Hutt“While your parents are still healthy is when you have to have the conversation [about their affairs] and it's pretty simple. It's things like if there are bank accounts, designate somebody to automatically have the bank account upon your death.” - Jenny Hutt“Ask [your older parents] all the questions you want answers to, because if you don't ask them now, as uncomfortable as they might be, you're never gonna be able to ask them.” - Jenny Hutt“We all find our purpose at different points in our lives. I think that one of my biggest purposes is to show that you can live through things that feel like you can't live through them.” - Jenny Hutt Guest’s Links WebsiteJust Jenny PodcastInstagramTwitterFacebookYouTube Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeBunny Eyez Eyewear For You When I Am Gone by Rabbi Steve Leder Connect with Jen! Jen’s websiteJen’s Instagram<a href="https://twitter.com/ ...
- 362[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Suleika Jaouad's "Between Two Kingdoms"Suleika Jaouad joins our show today to discuss her extraordinary book "Between Two Kingdoms." Suleika shares her story of receiving an early-in-life cancer diagnosis and the way that experience changed her relationship to her sense of community and hope. Suleika is a journalist, writer, speaker, and cancer survivor. She has written for The New York Times, Vogue, and NPR and her memoir “Between Two Kingdoms” details her journey of being treated and recovering from leukemia at the age of twenty two. Join Jen and Suleika as they discuss the following: Suleika's experience of being diagnosed with cancer at a young age and how it changed her perspective in life. The vital role of community and support during challenging times, and how Suleika's own community rallied around her during her illness. The challenges of writing a memoir and going from a journalist to a memoirist, professionally How to practice self compassion while experiencing “Big Grief” in all it’s different stages * * *Thank you to our sponsors!Jen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruiseJen Hatmaker Book Club | Use code READ for $5 off your first month at jenhatmakerbookclub.com Me Course — Sex | Sign up for the presale price at 40% off at mecourse.org Thought-Provoking Quotes“I think as a culture we're so focused on positivity and self-improvement and on living our best lives that we sort of forget how to live in discomfort.” - Suleika Jouad “We live in a culture where we're told that if we only work hard enough, we can live the life that we've always wanted to live. I've been told that my whole life. And you know, there's that saying that when you make plans, god laughs.” - Suleika Jouad “I have a post-it note on my desk that's sort of my guiding light in terms of what I'm trying to do when I write. And it says, if you want to write a good book, write what you don't want others to know about you. Yeah. And if you want to write a great book, write what you don't want to know about yourself.” - Suleika Jouad “With the distance of time, I see that what I initially thought of as a complete loss of my identity was actually an invitation to get closer to my truer self.” - Suleika Jouad “I was a planner, I was a doer. I was someone who had a one year plan and a five year plan and a 10 year plan, and all of that went up in smoke when I got sick. Yeah. Um, and I realized that for much of my adult life, all four years of it at that point, uh, I really summed up my sense of self based on achievement, based on my work ethic, based on my output, based on my grade point average. Yep. And all of that was stripped away from me when I got sick. I lost my job overnight. I was dependent on my parents as much as I've been since elementary school. That's right. I lost my independence, even my ability to shower alone, which for someone who doesn't like to ask for help, who had always thought of myself as fiercely independent, that was a hard pill to swallow.” -Suleika Jouad Guest Links Suleika Jouad WebsiteSuleika’s Instagram - @suleikajaouadSuleika’s Twitter - @suleikajaouadSuleik’s Facebook - @SuleikaJaouadPage Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode “Wolfish” by Erica Berry “Heads of the Colored People” by Nafissa Thompson-Spires“Nonviolent Communication” ...
- 363When Chaos Reveals Who You Really Are: Alexis JonesWe’re kicking off a new series called For The Love of Calming the Chaos and we’re looking at all the ways chaos invades our lives, how to identify what’s causing it, and how we can forge a way to calmness (at least some of the time). It’s one thing to be busy, tackling the everyday things that need to happen, to feel like you are pulled in a million different directions. It’s another thing to be overwhelmed, where a sense of hopelessness creeps in that the storm of chaos that surrounds your days might never subside. Author and speaker Alexis Jones hit a wall in a life that looked amazing from the outside, but was teeming with chaos and fear on the inside. After several hard-hitting circumstances knocked the wind out of her, she found herself unable to take even the tiniest step forward after living a life that had been full of activity and accomplishments, checking off all the right boxes–and realized she had lost sight of who she really was. Her latest book Joy Hunter: Messy Face Plants, Radical Love, and the Journey That Changed Everything details the story of how she found her way back to herself in the midst of the chaos–and you can too.Jen and Alexis talk about: The moment Alexis realized how the “gift of falling apart” would show her what really mattered When a tidal wave of chaos causes us to falter, how we can take steps to do something differently What it means to be able to find true joy after true sorrow How you can reconnect with a version of yourself that is real and authentic * * *Thank you to our sponsors!Betterhelp | 10% off your first month. Visit Betterhelp.com/fortheloveStoryworth | Save $10 on your first purchase. Visit Storyworth.com/fortheloveMake Me Care About | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts. Thought-Provoking Quotes“If I don't have these things that I can pull out of my back pocket and impress you with, then maybe I'm not extraordinary at all. And maybe I am simply an ordinary girl. And for me, that was never enough.” - Alexis Jones“Every single thing that I'd ever thought made me matter, was taken away from me, one after another. And that was the most beautiful invitation I had ever been given to find out who I really was and to start that journey of enoughness.” - Alexis Jones“We live in a society where it's so easy to numb. It's so easy to distract ourselves so that we don't have to feel all the feelings that are uncomfortable.” - Alexis Jones“I did everything right. I played by the rules and I checked all the boxes and I did all the things. Aren't I supposed to be happy?” - Alexis Jones“An ordinary experience like sitting in an RV, eating canned chili with my best friend and my husband, watching an old movie, and thinking, this is the most joyful I have felt in years.” - Alexis Jones Guest’s Links Alexis’ Website Alexis’ InstagramAlexis’ FacebookAlexis’ Twitter Resources Mentioned in This Episode I Am That Girl - book by Alexis Jones<a href="https://www.amazon.com/Joy-Hunter-Faceplants-Radical-Everything/dp/0593578066/ref=asc_df_0593578066/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=652542016202&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11108343920589077841&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1015214&hvtargid=pla-2006716384786&psc=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxYOiBhC9ARIsANiEIfYcMYuqVgV06bEzOm7J4uVeKP0To9QX2WV5PNHUl541e8RJ_Rp7YB0aAlwoEALw ...
- 364Drama Free: Untangling Chaotic Relationships with Nedra TawwabWelcome back, Chaos-breakers! We’re here trying to shake things up with another episode in our For the Love of Calming the Chaos–and this ones hitting us right where we live. Relationships; we’ve all got them, some we’re born into, others we choose, and others choose us. But what happens when certain relationships tax our energy, fill us with dread, and drain us of all ability to manage them? We have a great guide today to help us reframe relationships that have become dysfunctional, and how we can minimize the drama and chaos they bring. Therapist Nedra Tawwab is back on the show, and we couldn’t be happier. Nedra’s wildly popular Instagram account brings us life on the daily with her practical tips on recognizing when relationships are out of whack, how they might have gotten there, and how we can survive and thrive in the midst of it. Nedra has written two best selling books Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself, and Drama Free: A Guide to Managing Unhealthy Family Relationships. Nedra and Jen get into the following topics around eradicating relationship drama in our lives: The sometimes difficult but very possible ways to begin creating healthy family dynamics Finding the courage to have conversations with people when they hurt our feelings How to create boundaries and what to do when those boundaries aren’t respected Learning how to discern love from dysfunction in our relationships Life is full of chaos and confusion, and it is important to find a balance between healthy relationships and self-care to maintain peace. Nedra provides us the tools to express ourselves, say no, and be open to uncomfortable conversations. * * *Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | $20 off your first purchase by visiting Rothys.com/fortheloveMake Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts. Storyworth | Save $10 on your first purchase. Visit Storyworth.com/fortheloveThought-Provoking Quotes“Being a human is a lot of content in and of itself.” - Nedra Tawwab“Adulthood is really interesting because you have this opportunity to grow up and be your own person. But so many of us are still very much our parent's child. And I mean child in the sense that we’re a little child where [our parents] are still very much ruling what we’re able to do–at least when they're with us.” – Nedra Tawwab “How often are we willing to have those conversations and let people know they hurt our feelings?” - Nedra Tawwab“We all have a different capacity to tolerate dysfunctional things.” - Nedra Tawwab“So we really have to disentangle love from dysfunction, because we often think that because I love these people, I have to accept the dysfunction.” - Nedra Tawwab“We have to decide how much we are willing to give of ourselves to be in certain relationships with people, family.” - Nedra Tawwab“The biggest thing we have to focus on is ourselves. And that's really hard because the really easy thing is to change the other person.” - Nedra TawwabGuest’s Links Nedra’s WebsiteNedra’s Instagram<a hr ...
- 365From Chaos to Healing: Stephanie Foo’s Experience with Complex PTSDSometimes, bad things happen (obvi, right?). Many times, we know what’s happening to us in the moment is awful and wrong. We know that it’s painful. But sometimes, we don’t know how bad those things were until that pain shows up again in our lives, maybe years later, in a completely different way. And when these seemingly bad things come up, our lives are thrown into a tailspin—creating chaos and unhappiness and we’re not even even sure why. So how do we begin to identify the source of the darkness? How do we walk toward healing when the muck of our trauma is so deep we feel like we can’t move forward? Our guest this week has navigated through this very thing (and is still navigating it). The chaotic parts, the hard parts, the painful parts. Author and This American Life producer Stephanie Foo had found success in her thirties–working at her dream job and in a loving relationship. But behind her office door she was having panic attacks daily and sobbing at her desk. After years of questioning what was wrong (and blaming herself), she was diagnosed with complex PTSD–a condition that happens when trauma occurs again and again over many years. She was determined to understand this diagnosis, and the result of her findings is a beautiful and powerful memoir called What My Bones Know. Jen and Stephanie have an illuminating discussion around these topics: The difference between PTSD and complex PTSD and why that’s an important distinction when it comes to healing How an unresolved mental health issue can impact our physical health, which can manifest (as it did for Stephanie) in panic attacks, joint issues, migraines, and endometriosis. How our traumas can be handed down through previous generations through our genes, but also through how we were (or weren’t) nurtured. What it feels like to pull back the curtain on our coping mechanisms to reveal why we react to things the way we do, or why we put up walls in safe places with safe people Join us for this very real, raw, but gentle conversation as Stephanie’s story sheds light on how to walk away from chaos into healing. * * *Thank you to our sponsors!Chime | Visit https://www.chime.com/apply-debit/?ad=podcast_forthelove to learn how you can benefit by using chimeBetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month!Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts. Thought-Provoking Quotes“You can get traditional PTSD from a single traumatic event. So if you're in a car crash, you can get PTSD. Complex PTSD is kind of like if you were in that car crash every week for five years; it's when the trauma occurs over and over and over.” - Stephanie Foo“I felt scared all the time and I was burning out at work. I felt unable to actually produce. It was around 2018, and work had always been my constant source of comfort. And no matter how depressed or anxious I was, I would always be able to be productive. So when I found myself struggling to do that, I felt sort of lost.” - Stephanie Foo“I may have inherited my grandmother's desire and ability to hustle and that might be in my genes. It might be through nurture as well, not nature, and what I was taught as a child. It's kind of a mystery, but it certainly would explain a lot.” - Stephanie Foo Guest’s Links:Stephanie’s WebsiteStepanie’s Instagram Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Complex PTSDMala ...
- 366[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Kerri Maher: “The Paris Bookseller”It’s time for a good spring read–and what could be better than taking a literary trip to Paris in the spring? We are so excited to introduce you to Kerri Maher, the brilliant author of our latest book club pick, 'The Paris Bookseller.' Kerri is a rising star in the literary world, known for her captivating historical fiction that transports readers to different times and places. Kerri is the author of several critically acclaimed novels, including 'The Kennedy Debutante' and 'The Girl in White Gloves,' which have been praised for their historical detail and complex characters. In ‘The Paris Bookseller’, Kerri takes us to post-WWI Paris, where Maher brings to life Sylvia Beach, the founder of the bookstore Shakespeare and Company. 'The Paris Bookseller' is a tribute to the power of literature and the strength of women. Come be a part of the conversation here with us, and if you aren’t already a member of the Jen Hatmaker Book Club, jump on over to jenhatmakerbookclub.com after this episode to sign up! Thought-Provoking Quotes:“It's amazing how much I learned about writing fiction from writing the truth.” - Kerri Maher“I spent a lot of time in the research stage of that novel feeling inadequate. Who am I to write about these people? I'm just some housewife with five unpublished novels in my attic. And two writer friends from very different parts of my writing life responded to that comment in almost exactly the same way. They were like, ‘but Kerri, this is your novel, isn't it? I was and that was very liberating to me.” - Kerri Maher“I've really had to embrace representing real people and real time periods. Yes,I want to absolutely do right by them. I want to kind of represent the truth of their essence.. But I also have to cop to the fact and respect the fact that these are my versions of these people.” - Kerri Maher Kerri’s LinksKerri’s websiteKerri’s InstagramKerri’s FacebookKerri’s Twitter Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeThe Kennedy Debutante book by Kerri MaherThe Girl in White Gloves book by Kerri MaherAll You Have to Do Is Call book by Kerri Maher The Paris Wife book by Paula McClain A Moveable Feast book by Ernest HemingwayUlysses book by James Joyce Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow book by Gabrielle Zevin The House of Eve book by Sadeqa Johnson The Midnight Library by Matt Haig Connect with Jen!Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s Facebook<a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confi ...
- 367Inviting Calm into Your Life and Home: Emily P. Freeman and Myquillyn SmithIn our ongoing quest to squash the chaos in our lives, we’re talking to two experts (who are in fact sisters) who literally help us create space for our souls and our homes to breathe. Emily P. Freeman hosts the Do the Next Right Thing podcast where listeners flock to hear her soothing voice guide them with small ways to achieve mental clarity and avoid analysis paralysis when making decisions. Her sister, Myquillyn Smith, better known as The Nester, has the superpower of helping us create peace in the physical places we live with smart solutions that tweak our spaces to bring us calm–because when our homes feel out of control, our inner chaos rises as well. Highlights from this discussion with Jen, Emily, and Myquillyn include: How Emily and Myquillyn played with their Barbies as young girls was indicative of the roads they chose later in life How sometimes the things that we are influenced to purchase to help us conquer chaos can become triggers for chaos (ie: THE BASKET PEOPLE) How to not get bogged down with the pressure to plan your whole life, and how looking at past decisions can inform the decisions you make in the future What it means to “quiet a room” in order to bring calm to your living spaces Join Jen, Emily, and Myquillyn as we all seek a little refreshment for our lives and homes. * * *Thank you to our sponsors!Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts.Thistle Farms | Use code For the Love for 15%off at checkout. Visit https://thistlefarms.orgJen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruiseThought-Provoking Quotes"We would play Barbies—like I'm talking multiple levels of Barbie life. But the thing is, the way we moved through our Barbie life as kids echoes into adulthood. It is the way that we live our lives as grownups." - Emily P. Freeman"Decision making and discernment is not something we can quit, ignore, graduate, retire from, or often delegate. It is always with us. Unfortunately, sometimes it's great, sometimes it's not. And let's not forget it is a great privilege to be able to make a choice at all." - Emily P. Freeman"There are tons of studies about clutter and chaos and what it does to our literal heartbeat, the stress that we feel." - Myquillyn Smith"Our best teachers for decisions we are going to make in the future are the decisions we've already made in the past." Emily P. Freeman"The work of discernment is so much less about what should I do or not do? It's about can I trust myself?" - Emily P. Freeman“If you think of every single singular item in your space, having a voice over the months, over the years, maybe decades—it gets louder and louder.” - Myquillyn Smith“We think creating a beautiful home is about what we add in, but often it's about what we remove.” - Myquillyn Smith“If you cannot put your decision into a sentence, then it is not time to make the decision yet.” - Emily P. FreemanResources Mentioned in This EpisodeThe Next Right Thing PodcastThe Next Right Thing Book by Emily FreemanThe Next Right Thing Guided Journal by Emily FreemanEmily P. Freeman's For the Love Podcast EpisodeThe Cozy Minimalist 17 Questions that Changed My Life by TIm Ferris<a href="https://irismurdo ...
- 368The Emotional (and Sometimes Chaotic) Life of Teenagers with Dr. Lisa DamourCalling all parents of adolescents, or those of you who are about to have adolescents in your midst–if you’ve been feeling like you’re not sure what is normal in the emotional landscape of teenagers, we’re here to help. Face it—teenagers are literally in the epicenter of chaos–and because they live in our homes, sometimes it bleeds into our lives too. These kids are in developmental flux and there’s so much on them with school work, keeping up grades, extracurricular activities, friends (not to mention friend drama), anxiety about college—it’s a lot. But we can find ways to stand by them in their emotions, without getting too overcome with our own–and help them manage all this chaos in a way that serves them, and serves the whole family. Our guest this week is the perfect breath of calm in the midst of teen emotional chaos–she’s lived it, she studies it and she practices in it. Dr. Lisa Damour is a New York Times bestselling author who has written a book on the subject called The Emotional Lives of Teenagers, in addition to being an expert on adolescent development and family mental health. She and Jen hit the high points of: The seven developmental tasks that teenagers face Why the emotional world of teenagers is very different than during any other time in their life, and how they navigate emotions and how they express them How to know when a teenager is having a mental health crisis or if it’s just a teenager being a teenager How to manage a meltdown in nine steps Dr. Lisa gives us actionable tools to help understand teenagers and gently guide them as they wade through the somewhat chaotic season of adolescence. * * *Thank you to our sponsors!Betterhelp | 10% off your first month. Visit Betterhelp.com/fortheloveMake Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts.Thistle Farms | Use code For the Love for 15%off at checkout. Visit https://thistlefarms.orgThought-Provoking Quotes:“There is so much change in an incredibly short period of time. There are so many demands on that teenager in terms of how they're gonna grow, what is gonna be different between when they were 11 to 18. I mean, those are not the same people” - Dr. Lisa Damour“Teenagers make choices that can have a very dramatic impact on what's available to them in young adulthood, in terms of their options” - Dr. Lisa Damour"I think so often when we think we're listening, we're not listening. We're waiting for [our teenager] to pause so that we can make a suggestion. That's not listening." - Dr. Lisa Damour"Once your kid is into adolescence and is more autonomous and wanting more independence, and they come in close and ask for support--savor it and set your watch by the fact that it is gonna end probably within the next 30 seconds and it's not gonna end in a nice way." - Dr. Lisa DamourResources Mentioned in This EpisodeUntangled by Dr. Lisa DamourUnder Pressure by Dr. Lisa DamourThe Emotional Lives of Teenagers by Dr. Lisa DamourThe Ask Lisa PodcastThe Little MermaidDr. Damour’s BookmarksGuest’s LinksDr. Damour’s websiteDr. Damour’s Instagram Dr. Damour’s ...
- 369The Power of Rest & Retreat in Difficult Times: Katherine MayWe’re at the tail end of our For the Love of Calming the Chaos series–and if you’ve gotten a chance to hear the whole series, we hope you’ve been able to take away some actionable items toward further peace in your life. Our last episode in the series is the perfect capper toward extending that ability to calm the chaos during the disruptive times of our lives, but also during the heartbreakingly difficult times. Our guest this week brings us the very comforting message that simply bucking up or trying to cheerlead ourselves into positivity isn't going to cut it. She gives us permission to actively accept our sadness, and then some tools for how to process it and move it from chaos to a place of peace. Katherine May is an international best-selling author, including the books Enchantment Awakening Wonder in An Anxious Age and Wintering: The Power of Rest and Retreat in Difficult Times. Katherine is going to walk us through not only her own story of a hard winter season she endured, and what she learned, but she’ll show us how we can be gentle with ourselves and believe that we deserve peace, no matter the circumstances. Jen and Katherine talk about: When those winter seasons come, just when you think you can’t or will never be happy again and the dark pit feels too overwhelming; that’s typically when the winter begins to cease and recovery begins Giving yourself grace to believe you haven’t done anything wrong if you’re still suffering a week, a month or even six months later - the process of unlearning your old ways of life and relearning new ones can be painful and lengthy Not all the lessons we learn come from happiness, they come from sorrow, and how to accept that Chaos doesn’t just emanate from choices that we've made or that we've onboarded too many things, but sometimes when tragedy or heartache has found its way to our doorstep. Allowing ourselves to rest and retreat at these times is a gift we can all give ourselves. * * *Thank you to our sponsors!Rothy’s | $20 off your first purchase by visiting Rothys.com/fortheloveMake Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts.Caraway | Save 10% on your next purchase on all Caraway products by visiting carawayhome.com/forthelove and use code: forthelove Thought-Provoking Quotes:“One of the defining parts of [a season of winter] is that feeling of being trapped in a space with a window onto the outside world. And it seems like everybody else is carrying on and they're all fine. And you are uniquely not fine.” - Katherine May “There's something about how raw you are in that time [of suffering]. So there are moments of intense beauty that are an integral part of this, part of the suffering.”- Katherine May “People who've gone through major winters always seem to look back and say, ‘do you know what? I wouldn't have not gone through it if it meant that I couldn't be who I am now.’ You almost appreciate them because change is always necessary.” - Katherine May “You are not alone. You feel very alone, but you are actually part of a massive community of other people who are going through the same thing as you, but maybe for different reasons. And there's this incredible bond between all of you that might not be obvious, but you can trust this space and you can trust your sadness.” - Katherine MayResources Mentioned in This Episode: Enchantment: Awakening Wonder in an Anxious Age - book by Katherine May Wintering, the Power of Rest and Retreat in Difficult Times - book by ...
- 370Seeing and Hearing the Disabled Community: Dr. Amy KennyWe’re back with our series For The Love of Being Seen and Heard. There is so much right now floating around in culture about what happens to us when we don’t feel like we’re either being seen or heard. For most of us, the longing to be understood by others is a core need. And for some groups or communities, including the disabled community, the task of being seen, heard and understood is more challenging, and we’ll hear why as we talk with disabled scholar-practitioner Dr. Amy Kenny. Dr. Kenny has made it her life’s work to shed light on and help clear up misunderstandings around the abled community’s view of the disabled. Her latest book, My Body Is Not a Prayer Request does a deep dive into one of those communities—places of faith—and the particular biases and unintentional ableism propagated there. Amy compassionately offers insight and solutions toward understanding in a new way. Jen and Dr. Kenny discuss: Common misunderstandings that abled people have toward disabled people plus words and actions they can learn from disabled people toward connectedness The “invisible qualities of God’s divine nature” and how we might be able to accept imperfections in nature, even considering them beautiful, but are unable to accept or find beauty in the imperfections of our bodies “Inspiration porn” a phrase that relates to the overall view of disabled folks being the poster children for overcoming—putting them in the position of feeling as if they are objects on a pedestal and that their sole purpose in life is to inspire the abled The challenges around access for disabled people and how to think differently about the right of access for all people There’s hope in this conversation, and Amy guides us to a place where we can unlearn some ableist tendencies and learn more about a community that has much to contribute to our world. * * *Thank you to our sponsors!Chime | Visit https://www.chime.com/apply-debit/?ad=podcast_forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using ChimeBetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month!MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit https://www.mecourse.org/lgbtqia-parenting for more info.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“I'm not ashamed of my disability. It's an intrinsic part of the way that I navigate the world and the way that I am treated by the world and by various communities.” - Dr. Amy Kenny"I grew up in a household and in a church community that taught me that everyone was made in the image of God. And I had the audacity to believe it. Unfortunately, I wasn't treated as though I was made in the image of God a lot of times because I received potions and prayers and all kinds of shaming tactics to try to pray me away, essentially." - Dr. Amy Kenny"It's a beautiful interdependence that disabled folks bring and that we all can co-flourish when we have interdependence with one another." - Dr. Amy Kenny"We create this hierarchy of worth in humanity where we have societally constructed ideas of what's normal, who's intelligent, what's productive enough--who's contributing enough. All of those ideas uphold, ableism, racism, transphobia, colonialism, they're all interconnected." - Dr. Amy Kenny "My body is made of the same stuff as stars. Just watch me shine." - Dr. Amy Kenny“I have learned from the disability community that I have permission to show up as myself.” - Dr. Amy KennyResources Mentioned in This Episode:<a href="https://www.amazon.com/Body-Not-Prayer-Request-Disability/dp/1587435454/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Amy+kenny&qid=1637618335&qsid=138-8231968-4407434&sr=8-1&sres=1587435454,3030052001,B0742NDYKC,B006HSYI ...
- 371From The Church to The Pride Parade: Sara Cunningham with Free Mom HugsWe’re back for more of our Being Seen and Heard series! In a time where it feels like we are struggling to really see and hear one another, there are some bright lights who make it their mission to help one another understand each other a little better. Our guest today, Sara Cunningham, the founder of FreeMomHugs.org, is one amazing example of what can happen when we really see people for who they are and begin to hear their stories. Sara was on the show right at the beginning of her journey with Free Mom Hugs, and now the org—which started with the simple idea of attending Pride parades and holding up a sign that said “Free Mom Hugs,”—has become a national and world wide phenomenon. She uses her own experience as a guide to how she advocates, and is absolutely passionate about connecting with faith, civic, business, and government leaders in efforts to make the world a kinder safer place for our LGBTQIA+ family. Sara and Jen touch on these topics: Sara’s roots in conservative evangelicalism and how she found herself moving “from the church to the pride parade” after she reckoned with her son’s admission that he was gay and going to live in his identity The stories of people who, after coming out, lost their families, were kicked out of their churches, and felt completely alone and found solace and comfort in the simple act of a mom extending a hug Sara’s son Parker’s (as well as her own) journey of self-discovery and then coming to live authentically after seeing others, who had come out in faith environments, survive and thrive after loss How we can affect change with our voices as it relates to legislation that targets the LGBTQIA+ community * * *Thank you to our sponsors!BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month!MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit https://www.mecourse.org/lgbtqia-parenting for more info.FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchaseThought-Provoking Quotes:“I remember there was a time, at the beginning of that journey, I call from the church to the pride parade. It was like reality was setting in. The bubble that I was in, the evangelical conservative mainstream bubble that I was in where everyone looked like me and talked like me, had just shattered. And I wanted to take a banner and put it outside of my house on the front door, like, welcome to the real world. And suddenly it's like my eyes are truly open.” - Sara Cunningham“I think about [my son] Parker early on in his journey of self-discovery and then coming to live authentically. He had people in his life that had survived the loss, who had survived being outed, kicked out of their place of worship and losing their family. Just seeing them go beyond that and thriving and having a place of their own and working and contributing to society; he saw people that had faced what he feared and then came out on the other side of it.” - Sara Cunningham “Our mission statement is that we empower the world to celebrate the community through visibility, education, and conversation.” - Sara Cunningham, about FreeMomHugs.orgResources Mentioned in This Episode:Mama Bears FTL Episode ft. Sydney Hatmaker Kai Shappley’s Website Free Mom Hugs Revolution ConferenceKimberly Shappley’s Website<a href="https://momas ...
- 372The Black & White of Feminism with Rachel CargleIt’s another week of our illuminating For the Love of Being Seen and Heard series. We’re talking to people that are doing the life-changing work of helping each other see and hear each other–to see and hear communities that we are not a part of, to see and hear voices that have been traditionally silenced or marginalized, or even to see and hear ourselves in honest and affirming ways. Our guest this week is a powerful advocate, but with a tender heart who works in so many spaces that matter: feminism, racial justice, the arts, activism, self care and healing. Rachel Cargle is a writer and entrepreneur who has created powerful online learning spaces. She’s a regular contributor to Cultured Magazine, The Cut and Atmos. She’s been featured in the New York Times and Forbes as well. Her work centers around an invitation to pursue healing and growth, as well as re-imagining how systems that no longer serve us can be dismantled or changed to embrace justice and liberation. Her belief is that every one of us has power–the power to unlearn, relearn and reimagine–taking ourselves out of stuck spaces and creating places for understanding for everyone. Her thoughts on feminism are so insightful as she looks at how a well intentioned movement for the progress of women leaves out key communities and how reimagining how to see and hear the needs of every woman toward better conditions for all women. This powerful discussion centers around: An explanation and brief history of the feminist movement and how communities of color often are left behind in this work How the culture, both inside and outside of black communities often stereotype black women as workers, as strong, as able to bear pain differently than their white counterparts; and Rachel’s work to help black women feel cared for–which leads to an amazing ripple effect on families, organizations and communities The Loveland Foundation, which gives black women access to black therapists, to self-care and to other resources that are so often not readily or affordably available Simple ways that women can get involved in the conversation to become clear about this intersection of feminism and race by hearing and telling truths, and to engage in knowledge, empathy, and action. Sometimes the truth can be hard to process, but when there is intentionality in how we exist in our efforts toward benefitting the condition of women, the result is liberation for all women. * * *Thank you to our sponsors!Thought-Provoking Quotes:“I believe that when black women are poured into, it really offers a ripple effect to most other places in our communities and societies.” - Rachel Cargle"The systems are insistent on us not being curious. If we're not curious, they must stay the same. And if they stay the same the people who built them to win will continue winning." - Rachel Cargle"A lot of what I didn't yet know was what it meant to be a black woman in the feminist movement, in spaces full of white women who were having a very different experience than I was, and who were benefiting from the outcomes of our collective work--more than the black women who were doing equal amounts of the work--and sometimes even more of the work in these spaces." - Rachel CargleResources Mentioned in This Episode: Photo of Rachel from the Women’s March in 2017 per Huffington Post article “Feminism is White Supremacy In Heels” an article by Rachel Cargle in Harper’s BazaarElizabeth Cady StatonIda B. WellsBe the Bridge<a ...
- 373Inside the Fight for Better Gun Safety with MomsRising’s Gloria PanIf you’ve listened long enough to our show and also follow Jen, you probably know that the conversations we invite come in many stripes—thoughtful, timely, fun, encouraging, helpful, educational and inclusive—plus, we’re not afraid to veer into some of the deeper stuff. Important stuff that is sometimes hard to wrap our heads around, but if we don’t, no change can occur. Whatever we think about gun rights, there are voices to consider who are doing hard work to create a future where kids can safely attend schools, where people won’t be shot just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, where mass shootings become a thing of the past. Wherever you stand on the spectrum of this issue, at the end of the day, many polls show that roughly 90% of us agree that we should have stricter gun laws. So we’re opening the For the Love Floor to someone who is seeing and hearing first hand from families affected by gun violence, who makes it her priority to educate the public, and puts the issue in front of legislators for increased gun safety. Gloria Pan is the VP of Moms Rising, a group of caring moms who take on the most critical issues facing women, mothers and families. She’s the head of their gun safety initiative and works with their membership to accelerate impact on Capitol Hill and state capitols to affect legislative change. She's also been a trusted voice who’s spread the message on CNN, with The Los Angeles Times, NPR, and all kinds of media platforms. Gloria and Jen have a discussion around: + The origins of the 2nd Amendment and how the narrative of guns rights proponents has been shaped over the last 50 years + Practical steps toward what we all can do if we want to make our voices heard about this issue and take action toward better gun safety+ Hope toward a new generation of young people who are engaged in creating a better future and are paying attention in ways perhaps previous generations haven’t This work is not glamorous and can be full of disappointment, as moving mountains can often be. We’re grateful to people like Gloria who give us a glimpse from inside the fight, and bring us hope that change can really happen.* * *Thank you to our sponsors!Thought-Provoking Quotes:“Gun violence deaths in this country hovered around 32,000 people a year. That was pretty consistent for many years. Now we're nearing 50,000 and we have so many guns. We have more guns than people in this country.” - Gloria Pan“We consider all moms and families who care about the future of their families and their communities and our country as our constituency. We very much believe that our job is to bring their voices and their concerns to the policy-making table” - Gloria Pan“Not too long ago, issues that are concerning for moms and families were never even talked about in Congress. Childcare, paid family and medical leave, and policies that enabled families to be able to care for our families were never even talked about. But because of the work of MomsRising, our partners out there, and moms and families speaking out, it is now front and center for many lawmakers.” - Gloria Pan"Join us. Help us build this momentum toward this future where the well-being of families is front and center for this country. Because what are we without our families?" - Gloria PanResources Mentioned in This Episode: Sandy HookMaxwell Frost Attitudes Toward Gun Ownership in America: Pew Research2008 Heller Decision The Bruen Decision<p ...
- 374Seeing and Loving Your Body (and Yourself) With No Shame: Jessamyn StanleyWe’re back with maybe the most foundational episode in our Being Seen and Heard series–and it’s all about how we see ourselves. Were you taught to love yourself when you were growing up? Many of us never grew up hearing anything about embodiment, and maybe we’ve treated our bodies as “the enemy” for most of our years. Maybe you grew up in a time where you didn’t see people that looked like you, or had your body type represented in magazines, on TV or in movies. Perhaps you even had shame about your body (or still do), and you bought into diet culture and were constantly worried about your size and the number on the scale. It’s hard to see ourselves as beautiful when we’re looking outside ourselves for a standard of beauty. Our guest today is doing the good work of helping people see themselves differently, and it’s giving them freedom to love themselves for who they are today. Jessamyn Stanley has become a powerful voice for wellness and body acceptance (she also dubs herself the “Beyonce’ of yoga” - who can’t get behind that?). After attending yoga classes with a friend, Jessamyn fell in love with it, but she noticed that she didn’t see anyone who looked like her or had a body like hers–and when she moved to a different city and wasn’t attending yoga classes anymore—she craved a community to share her practice–except she wanted all kinds of people and body types to be a part of it. She began sharing her yoga practice on Instagram in 2012 and was amazed by the overwhelming response from many who had never done yoga before because they had felt just like Jessamyn had–that maybe it wasn’t for “people like them.” Her fledgling Insta-yoga classes grew into an organization called The Underbelly, a unique and inclusive digital wellness experience that draws thousands of people into its safe, accepting space.Jen and Jessamyn touch on these topics: Jessamyn’s experience being ashamed of her body as a middle schooler and being bullied for being different and how she looks at those years of bullying as a revelation that everyone is self conscious about their bodies-bullies includedThe realization we all have at the end of the day; all we have is ourselves-and if we can accept ourselves as we are right now-not who we thought we should be, or who we might be-we’ll enjoy the ability to be fully present and authentic in all of our encountersDebunking the long held notion that many people have about black women (and also that black women have been taught to believe) that they are “stronger” and “superwomen,” and what it means to allow themselves moments of rest and self-care Key changes that could be made to empower everyone to have their own agency toward self care, by making it possible for anyone-no matter how much money you make, or where you live-to participate in wellness practices like yoga Thought-Provoking Quotes:“Middle school was a time when I was really heavily bullied. That experience for me, looking back, was one of the greatest experiences because what it was actually teaching me is: everyone is self-conscious about their body. There's no one who is not self-conscious. And the person who bullies is having the most traumatic experience.” -Jessamyn Stanley“If I am all I have, then I have to learn to accept myself where I am right now. Not where I could be in the future, or where I thought I should have been 10 years ago. Like, what does it mean to just be who I am today?” -Jessamyn StanleyResources:Leslie Kinzel - Body acceptance writerMaryanne Kirby - Body acceptance writerNicolette Mason - Fat fashion bloggerDianne Bondi - Yoga practitioner<a href="https://www.shape.com/fitness/workouts/things-you-need-know-about-bikram-yo ...
- 375Reimagining Our Relationships Toward Rebalancing The Domestic Workload with Eve RodskyWe’re back with another installment of our Being Seen and Heard series, and we think this one is going to strike a nerve with many of you out there who are looking for a better, stronger, fairer, narrative when it comes to the balance of work in your home and toward raising children. Are you the one in your relationship who is handling the lion’s share of the care and feeding of your littles PLUS taking care of their pickups and dropoffs to school, daycare, sports, bathtimes, bedtimes, wiping noses, butts PLUS managing the domestic front of grocery shopping, cleaning, organizing, handling the social calendar, vacations, PLUS working a 40 hour a week job either inside or outside the home? We see you and are asking a question that maybe you ask every day; why are women still, in a day and age where we make up 55.9 percent of the workforce and where 40 percent are the main breadwinner in the home, still responsible for so much when it comes to child rearing and domestic workload? Our guest this week has created a national conversation about greater equality on the home front with a system she created through intense research that helps couples create balance, by understanding that women are doing what she calls almost all of the “invisible labor” in the home, with at least two thirds of them having a job outside the home as well. Eve Rodsky is a Harvard Law School grad with years of training in organizational management When she had her first child (and began to see her identity at her job being stripped away because of it) and then began the dance of balancing her job with all of her duties as a mother (for which she bore the lion’s share of the domestic and child rearing responsibilities, as so many women do) she started to wonder: what would it be like if couples could reimagine their relationships as to how it relates to rebalancing the work it takes to run a home? So began her “Fair Play” system, where she sets couples up for success in relationship and parenting by helping them change the way they think and talk about their home life. Jen and Eve discuss: The patriarchal history that has been around for centuries that informs why the imbalance of domestic workload still exists when so many other categories for women have been elevatedHow important it is to invite men into their full power into the home, removing barriers and stereotypes as to what men’s and women’s strengths are thereChanging the notion that women’s time is somehow less important than men’s–and that the “invisible work” women do is toward guarding the time of men How the overwhelming pace of work, child rearing and home management eventually ends up making us sick and damaging our relationships, and what we can do about it BONUS: Eve puts Jen to the test with a question from her Fair Play card deck where we dive deep into Jen’s family values–a question that is illuminating to all of us in understanding each other in relationship. Thank you to our sponsors!Thought-Provoking Quotes:“Changing and inviting men into their full power in the home is the only way women are gonna be able to step out into their full power in the world.” - Eve Rodsky“We've convinced women that their time is sand. It's infinite. Whereas we guard men's time as if it's finite like diamonds.” - Eve RodskyResources Mentioned in This Episode:Peter DruckerRobert Waldinger Ted TalkFair Play Life InstagramFairlifeplay.com<a href="https://www.amazon.com/Im-Glad-My-Mom-Died/dp/B09VHWC5YK/ref=sr_1_1?hvadid=604480761348&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9031339&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvran ...
- 376[BONUS] Gates Foundation: Season Wrap-Up with Melinda French GatesTo close out season one of the Make Me Care About Podcast, Jen sits down with the co-chair of The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Melinda French Gates. In the spirit of helping us care about important, but sometimes little known facts, resources and phenomena, in this final episode, Melinda helps Jen wrap the season by discussing why she thinks we should care, and why she herself cares about the topics discussed throughout the first season. She also fills us in on what new initiatives are brewing at the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the foundation's future. She discusses a central tenet toward enhancing women’s economic power, and why she believes this is such an important goal for the foundation.Join Jen and Melinda as they discuss: What happens when we start to care about important topics like the ones discussed in this Make Me Care About series How women having true economic power changes everything in their household and in the world Jen’s pick on the episode from this season that had the most impact on her How Melinda’s travels around the world provide crucial perspective on other cultures and ways of life toward helping others thrive You won’t want to miss this fascinating wrap to Season One of the Make Me Care About Podcast with special guest Melinda French Gates.***Gates Foundation LinksMake Me Care About Podcast SeriesGates Foundation Resources for this EpisodeKrystal PayneDeon Woods BellChef Pierre ThiamConnect with Jen! Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube
- 377Demystifying Therapy with Lori GottliebIf you or anyone you know and love has ever had issues with their mental health, you know how painful it can be. As we conclude our “For the Love of Being Seen and Heard” series, we just want to remind you that there's no shame in admitting that you might need a little help. Maybe you’re feeling low, or more anxious than usual, or sad, scared, or just off—anything that feels different or keeps you from flourishing. Our guest today is here to encourage you to take agency over your mental health, and as a therapist herself, she’s here to help us shed those stigmas around seeking help from a therapist or counselor. Lori Gottleib is a renowned psychotherapist, a bestselling author, and a leading voice in the mental health space. Her latest book (which was also a a selection for the Jen Hatmaker Book Club) Maybe You Should Talk To Somebody leads us into her own experiences with the transformative power of therapy and gives answers to those who might have hesitations about beginning this process. Lori and Jen talk about: Identifying the stereotypes about therapy and debunking them, plus what to expect so that you can a get the most out of your time with a therapist Developing an attitude that mental health is just as important as physical help and that seeking a therapist is on the same level as getting a check up with a medical doctor toward whole body health Jen’s personal experiences with therapy - and how she processed pain and betrayal, plus what it looks like to be in active recovery Becoming aware of and taking responsiblity for our own patterns, actions and responses to life events as it pertains to our mental state and interactions with others As Lori says, “one thing that therapy will teach you is how to be your real, messy, imperfect, fallible self, but also still love who you are.” * * * Thank you to our sponsors!BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month!FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchaseJen Hatmaker BookClub | Vist jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase!Thought-Provoking Quotes:“I think a lot of people are maybe afraid to open up to a therapist. They're maybe afraid to say, ‘this is the truth of who I am.’f That's why I really wanted to be open about what I was going through when I went to therapy, because I want people to know that this is a space where we've seen it all, not only as a therapist, but as a person in the world ourselves.” - Lori Gottlieb“The more you can show the truth of who you are, the deeper your connections will be with the people in your life.” - Lori Gottlieb“The internet is the most effective short-term non-prescription painkiller out there because it's really something we use to distract ourselves.” - Lori Gottlieb “The value of therapy is that you get wise compassion; we will hold up a mirror to you and we will help you to see what you haven't been willing or able to see about your role in the situation.” - Lori GottliebResources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of Reconnecting Podcast episode- Rewriting the Stories We Tell Ourselves: Lori Gottlieb Maybe You Should Talk to Somebody by Lori GottliebJen Hatmaker Book Club<a href="https://www.aspenideas.org/pages/about-the-aspen-ideas-festival?&utm_sour ...
- 378Finding Friends, Keeping Them and What To Do When You Break Up: Laura TremaineWe’re in a brand new series; For the Love of Friends and Community. Friendship and community often serve as the cornerstone for many women's lives, providing a vital support system that nurtures connection, empathy, and mutual growth. In a recent survey from Psych Central, nearly half of most women report having fewer than 3 close friends, one third report having between 4-9 close friends, and 12% say they have no close friends at all. We know that friendship contributes to more satisfaction in life and is good for our overall health. So what’s the key to finding and keeping friends? How many friends do we need to get those good friend vibes? Our guest this week, author and podcaster Laura Tremaine, has written extensively about friendship, drawing from her own experiences and the experiences of other women she has talked to. Laura wants us to identify, create and nurture these deep connections that we long for. She also teaches us that friendship takes work, and vulnerably shares her friendship fails (yes, even a friendship expert has a few friend misses now and again). Jen and Laura discuss: The key qualities that make a friendship meaningful and enduring, and how those things are defined by what you value A rundown of the things we all may think are important about friendship and looking at the things that aren’t as important as we’ve been made to believe they are How to navigate friendship breakups and friendships ending, allowing grief over that loss, and leaving room for that vacant “chair” to be filled by someone new Finding the “fellow obsessive” friend - the one you can geek out about with things that you both love Creating meaningful friendships is not just about having a social circle. It's about experiencing true companionship and vulnerability and support. And it's these soul connections that can bring so much joy and fulfillment to our lives. * * *Thank you to our sponsors!MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit https://www.mecourse.org/lgbtqia-parenting for more info.FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchaseJen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase!Thought-Provoking Quotes:“You can have all the data about why we connect or don't connect or how many people we can reasonably connect with. There's data and then there's actually real life.” - Laura Tremaine“It's great to have the friends who knew you when. It's also great to have friends who are like, ‘I had no idea you used to be that way and I'm glad we're meeting at this stage.’” - Laura Tremaine“My friendship with one of my best friends ended not by my choice, and it was as devastating as any romantic breakup I have ever been through.” - Laura Tremaine“Sharing your stuff, even when it's messy, brings you closer to who you are.” - Laura Tremaine“When you make a new friend and someone likes this newest version of you that you have fought so hard to be, how validating is that?” - Laura Tremaine“Friendship is a to-do and I have to put it on my to-do list like I put work tasks on my to-do list.” - Laura TremaineResources Mentioned in This Episode:Share Your Stuff I’ll Go First (a book by Laura Tremaine)Friends song by Michael W. SmithBrené Brown’s WebsitesJamie B. GoldenSteven King Summer (A book club with Laura Tremaine)<a href="https: ...
- 379The Friendships That Save Us: Maggie SmithGenuine heart friendships have an incredible impact on our lives, including our health. Many recent studies tout the connection between health and the quality of your relationships, and that loneliness (not to be confused with being alone) can have a negative effect on our health–possibly even bigger than smoking or drinking or poor eating. So is it possible that our friends can actually help save us? Our guest today thinks so; writer and poet extraordinaire Maggie Smith recently went through a divorce and she credits her close knit friend group for being “her parachute” in that process (much like Jen’s friends have been for her as well). Jen and Maggie discuss these topics around friendship: The way friends can invest in you in a way that family isn’t able to when you’re going through disruptive life moments The friends that intuitively know what you need during a rough patch and show up proactively with solutions so you don’t feel so lost How we can nurture those “life saving” friendships by being a good friend ourselves Thank God for the friends who remind us of who we are–of our core goodness and worth– when a disruptive time shakes up our identity. They help bring us back to ourselves. * * *Thank you to our sponsors!Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Caraway | Save 10% on your next purchase on all Caraway products by visiting carawayhome.com/forthelove and use code: fortheloveBetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month!Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I was in a ‘not seeing the forest for the trees' mode. I was painting an inch from the canvas. I had no idea what the shape of anything was and I was just panicked and trying to spackle everything back together as quickly as I could. And so having people who could remind me of my goodness, my core worth, which I think is so easy to forget in these moments." - Maggie Smith"When friends come in, they're not necessarily invested in the relationship. They're invested in your happiness. Whatever that looks like for you, it doesn't actually impact your friend a block away. If your marriage doesn't work the same way it impacts your family, who's thinking, 'Oh, what are we gonna do for Christmas now?'" - Maggie Smith“I think there's something that we do that hurts our adult friendships in particular, which is why we prioritize them sometimes way below our romantic relationships. It happens even when we're dating. We all knew or we were the girl who was 15 and as soon as she got a boyfriend stopped hanging out with her friends on the weekends because she was like, ‘I just wanna be with my boyfriend and if he's busy then I can come hang out.’” - Maggie Smith"Maybe someone hurt you five years ago now seems pretty small and not unmanageable or unforgivable. So what would it take to just reach out, call your friends, and have them help you craft a text to someone that you haven't talked to in a while, or leave a voicemail—if you're phone brave, I am not phone brave, so I would text or probably email. If you know where they live, send a little postcard that has some little private joke or something that reminds you of them." - Maggie Smith Resources Mentioned in This Episode: You Could Make This Place Beautiful: A Memoir by Maggie Smith My Thoughts Have Wings by Maggie Smith (A picture book releasing in winter 2024 by Maggie Smith) Moving Forward After Pain Rips Your Script: Maggie Smith (FTL Episode featuring Maggie Smith)Guest’s Links:<a href="https://maggiesmi ...
- 380What Is Your Friendship Attachment Style? Ft. Dr. Marisa FrancoHey friends, we are back with another episode in our For the Love of Community & Friendships, and we happen to have a true friend of the show returning to lay down some expertise about what it means to make and keep friends. We’re delighted to have Dr. Marisa Franco, (who also partnered with Jen to create a MeCourse on Friendship) who delves into the fascinating world of friendship attachment styles. Dr. Franco shares her extensive knowledge and insights on how our attachment styles, often formed during our early years, can significantly influence the type of friendships we form as adults. She discusses the three main types of attachment styles—secure, avoidant, and anxious—and explains how understanding our own style can help us navigate our friendships more effectively. Jen and Marisa touch on: How the three main types of attachment styles can change over time as we typically become more secure as we mature How, when we’re younger, we tend to have more friends (and friends who are very similar to us) as we look to expand our identity, and when we become more solid in our identity, we’re more open to be friends with people who are different from us Why friendship doesn’t just typically “happen,”--it takes effort, and some ways you can put yourself out there to make new friends, and how to do the work to keep the friends you already have How to approach conflict in friendship where we kindly share our needs with a spirit of reconciliation over an attitude of defensiveness * * *Thank you to our sponsors!Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime!FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchaseJen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes:“If you don't understand your attachment style, you think that the world is just mean and cruel and people are gonna reject you or people are going to betray you. If you're more avoidant and you don't have any power, you don't have any agency because all the issues are out in the world.” - Dr. Marisa Franco“I think if we can understand our attachment styles, we have more agency, we have more control, we can shift our behaviors and we can find the relationships that we really want.” - Dr. Marisa Franco“People are a lot more likely to be friends with people that are similar to them. It's called homophily. The value of these similar relationships is they do make us feel very safe.” - Dr. Marisa Franco“We see in the research that people who see friendship as happening without effort are more likely to be lonely five years later. People that see it as requiring effort are less likely to be lonely five years later.” - Dr. Marisa Franco“What we see in the research is that when people try to reconnect with someone, that person is happier to receive that reconnection than we predict.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “In a healthy conflict, I think of; what does this conflict look like without blame? What if I go into here not trying to blame this person, not trying to even assume that they were trying to intentionally hurt me. So then, how do I navigate it with that being what's going on in my head?” - Dr. Marisa FrancoResources Mentioned in This Episode:Platonic How The Science of Attachment Can Help You Make and Keep Friends a book by Dr. Marisa FrancoGuest’s Links:Dr. Franco’s Website Dr. Franco’s Instagram Dr. Franco’s FacebookDr. Franco’s Twitter<a href="h ...
- 381Shannan Martin on Friendship: “It Starts with Hello”When was the last time you reached out to one of your neighbors? Not just the people you feel comfortable with, but the ones who live near that you might not know beyond a “How are you?” in passing. As we continue our Community and Friendship series, we’re taking a look at why it enriches our lives (and the lives of our neighbors) to invest in the people around us. It doesn’t have to mean they all become our best friends, but a little curiosity, a little paying attention, and a little effort to listen will go a long way in developing the kinds of relationships that make life sweeter. To help guide this conversation, we’re delighted to welcome author and speaker Shannan Martin back to the show! Through her writing, Shannan has revolutionized the way we think about relationships with her refreshing perspectives. She articulates the need for genuine, deep-seated friendships that stretch beyond conventional norms. She also unravels the complexities of forging meaningful connections in our modern world, and her last book “Start with Hello” beckons us toward extending hospitality in ways that might feel awkward at first, but will net us that sense of community and belonging we all long for. Shannan and Jen discuss: How Shannan, a self proclaimed introvert, faced her loneliness after she and her family moved from the country to the city by getting outside her comfort zone and making herself available to meet her neighbors What it means to be deeply embedded in a neighborhood where you are both a good neighbor, and your neighbors are good neighbors to you How making new friends, no matter how big or small, always starts with a simple “hello” and the small steps towards getting to know someone by making eye contact, paying attention and helping when we can Shannan and Jen agree that when we reach out beyond our fears, beyond our comfort level, and beyond our borders with radical hospitality, good things start to happen in our neighborhoods which then trickle out to our communities and begin to affect society as a whole. And, be sure to stay with us ‘til the very end–you won’t want to miss a little bonus chat among friends about whether ice cream is healthy for you or not, and what flavors Jen and Shannan swear by.* * *Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month!Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase!FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchaseThought-Provoking Quotes:“Every relationship that we have, whether it's the smallest acquaintance or our truest loves, began with a hello.” - Shannan Martin“There's this unfair idea that if somebody is unhoused, they're gonna be inherently a danger to us and it's just simply not true.” - Shannan Martin“What if we just decided to eat together? What if we decided that nobody is exempt from being in our home? Everybody's invited. That makes life really interesting.” - Shannan MartinResources Mentioned in This Episode:For the Love of Books SeriesThe Window (a nonprofit organization out of Goshen, IN)Shannan’s BooksFor the Love Episode ft. Osheta Moore An article on the health benefits of Ice Cream by The AtlanticToad the Wet Sprocket Tour<a href="https: ...
- 382The Hardest Part of Friendship; When It’s Time To Say Goodbye ft. Erin FalconerWe’re back with our “For the Love of Community and Friendship Series, and this week, we delve into an area of friendship that all of us may face, but inevitably dread. It’s that moment when you know a friendship has run its course, or perhaps has become toxic, or you’ve just drifted apart–and you don’t know how to go forward. When life changes, when we change, and a friendship no longer serves us, how do we gracefully (and honestly) communicate about it? Our guest this week, who is here to walk us through this touchy topic, is writer, former standup comedian and political consultant Erin Falconer. Erin's written a book called How to Break Up With Your Friends: Finding Meaning, Connection and Boundaries in Modern Friendships. Lest you think this is just a conversation on how to wipe your friend slate clean, stick around–you’ll hear Jen and Erin talk about how to create and maintain the healthiest friendships through all the seasons of our lives in order to avoid the painful friend breakup. They also discuss: Erin’s “Six Pillars of Friendship” that help us take stock of who is in our life and how we’re serving each other What to do when we see a friendship has run its course or needs to shift or change in some way How to keep the source of joy going in our adult friendships, and minimize the pain It’s tough to grapple with the complexities of friendship breakups, but it all starts with building healthy relationships from the start. * * *Thank you to our sponsors! Trust and Will - Get 10% and Free Shipping when Visit trustandwill.com/forthelove. See how Trust and Will can benefit you! FOCL - Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase!Thought-Provoking Quotes:“There's no collectively agreed upon language out there in the zeitgeist about how to navigate conflict in [friend] relationships. There’s no blueprint for what a good one looks like, what a bad one looks like, and how to get out of good bad ones and into good ones." - Erin Falconer“The default setting on any one relationship should be one of positivity. It's so easy to slip into negative thinking and negative conversations because they feel so good. They feel like you're seen and you're heard and done. But you have to be really careful to not lean too heavily into those things.” - Erin Falconer“Relationships take work. To show up, you need to commit to the other person and you have to find your rhythm of what that looks like. It doesn't mean you have to be getting dinner every week, but there has to be some kind of agreed-upon level of commitment in this.” - Erin Falconer“It is true that individuals themselves can be toxic people. That is such a small percentage of people. It is, in this case, the relationship that is toxic, and even if somebody else is behaving badly, you've allowed them to continue to show up in this way in your life. We teach people how to treat us and there's a certain degree of responsibility we need to own within these relationships because with responsibility comes freedom and power.” - Erin Falconer“Relationships are very much a mirror to you. The more you explore these types of relationships, the more you explore yourself. To that end, understanding who is in your world is really important to understanding who you are.” - Erin Falconer Resources Mentioned in This Episode:<a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/u ...
- 383Redefining Community & Friendships When Faced With The Unexpected ft. Emma NadlerAs we close in on the end of our Community and Friendships series, we’re reflecting on the great conversations we’ve had toward building relationships in our lives. And this week’s convo puts the cherry on top as we discuss our friends as “chosen family” and the shape that our friendship and communities take when we are in a place where we need extra support. Our guest this week, Emma Nadler, is a therapist, author and speaker who is doing valuable work in helping people build deeper relationships. Emma knows firsthand what it means to rely on her circle in ways she never thought she would, when her daughter was diagnosed with a DNA disorder, shifting the life she knew, and navigating the special care, multiple hospital stays, and more than full-time parenting her daughter needs. By leaning on her community and being brave enough to ask for help (when sometimes the tendency is to act like we’ve got it all under control). Emma’s goal is to show us how we can look beyond preconceived notions about what it means to be valued and to belong, and leads us toward building a world where thriving in community is possible for every single person. Emma and Jen touch on: What it looks like when our “family” looks different than expected in the context of friendships and our communities How to understand and learn to tolerate our emotions when it comes to interacting with friends and community and how to find meaning in everything—good and bad Practical steps on fostering really authentic connections, asking for help, and creating inclusive spaces The power of being direct when reaching out to connect with new people, or friends you’ve drifted from, to foster a deeper relationship There’s so much value in learning how to meaningfully connect with others and create communities and friendships that celebrate our joyful times and anchor us at difficult times.* * *Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Thought-Provoking Quotes:“We're born into something and we get certain things from that family; we might get a lot of things. We might get a lot of love. Some people do, some people don't get what they need. I think we can take that and build on it in the relationships that we create in our lives.” - Emma Nadler“There are 53 million caregivers in the United States right now and we can really feel alone, even though we're not. Often our work [leaves us] tucked away. We're at home. We have so much that we're grappling with that isn't seen. And so it can really feel [lonely].” - Emma Nadler“What would it be like to be open with people about what we are looking for in our relationships, what we want, and really let that in? ” - Emma Nadler“To me, in relationships, the question I'm most interested in is, do we want the same things out of this relationship?” - Emma Nadler Resources Mentioned in This Episode:The Unlikely Village of Eden by Emma NadlerFeed These People by Jen HatmakerDr. Robert Waldinger’s Harvard Second Generation Study Guest’s Links:<a href=" ...
- 384Yelled at By A Clown: How Nate Bargatze Found His FunnyWe’re looking for laughs and we found them in all the right places, and we’re sharing the hilarity with a brand new series called For the Love Of Funny. If you’ve hung out with us for any amount of time, you know that Jen is an avid devotee of all things funny. So we’ve rounded up some of her favorite funny people to not only bring us laughs, but to unpack the art and science of making people laugh. And for our very first episode, we couldn’t be more delighted to welcome “The Tennessee Kid” himself–Nate Bargatze! Nate’s known for his down-to-earth humor and deadpan comedy delivery, his highly viewed Netflix specials, and his favored status as a frequent guest on “The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon: (10+ times!). Surprise guest interviewer Tyler Merritt joins Jen as they pull back the curtain on Nate’s comedy journey. Often referred to as the “nicest man in standup,” Nate talks about growing up in a performance forward home (his dad was a Christian magician), the origins of some of his funniest jokes (Yelled at By a Clown, anyone?) and the side of fame that isn’t so pretty–like his sister’s incredulity that anyone would want to take a selfie with him. * * *Thank you to our sponsors!Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime!Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase!FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love Episode ft. Kevin NealonNate Bargatze: The Tennessee Kid Nate Bargatze: The Greatest Average American The Nateland PodcastThe Be Funny TourThe Second City Comedy ClubHannibal Buress’s WebsiteKumail NanjianiT.J. Miller’s WebsitePete Holmes WebsiteAmy Schumer’s WebsiteAziz Ansari’s WebsiteDusty Slay’s WebsiteSinbad: Afros & BellbottomsBrian Regan’s WebsiteKurt Metzger’s WebsiteBig J Oakerson’s WebsiteBill Burr’s WebsiteDave Attell’s WebsiteEddie Murphy: RawEddie Murphy: DeliriousThe Comic StripSteve MartinJustin Smith’s WebsiteGuest’s Links:Nate’s WebsiteNate’s InstagramNate’s TikTokNate’s YouTube ChannelNate’s TwitterNate’s Facebook ...
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