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Early Marriage Surprises: Resentment and Repentance 0:00 I think I was mortified and heartbroken the day I realized how much resentment I held towards Kate, how much I use the word hatred and it has shock value, but it's really true. I mean, that's what it really becomes over0:10 time. Mhmm. I I hated my0:17 wife.0:21 We're so excited to have JJ and Kate Tomlin back with us. Thank you guys for hanging out with us for yet another episode.0:28 Yeah. We're so excited to be here. Let's get into it, guys. This is so fun.0:32 We kinda talked a lot about dating stuff and dating, heading into marriage, and what you guys have learned, and you guys entering into marriage, and entering into ministry together0:44 and all just really really good stuff. You guys are so well spoken and have such great information. But let's shift into marriage. And Yeah. What would you say has been0:56 kind of the biggest surprise for you guys as you entered into marriage? What what has surprised you?1:02 Nothing. We knew we knew. We had a crystal ball. Yeah. And we knew everything that was gonna happen. And so It's so fun.1:09 It's a very 24 7 fun. Right.1:12 It's like1:13 a Lego movie. Everything is awesome.1:17 So, you know, people always say they're shocked to find out we've only been married 3 and a half years. So we are, I would say, you know, definitely still in that newlywed phase. But what has, you know, expedited our1:29 marriage, I would say, is also the fact that we work together, and we are together a lot. So1:37 Every day.1:38 Every day long.1:39 Every hour.1:39 Every day long. So Yeah.1:42 We both work from home is great. So things that have been surprising. I I would say, you know, I'm very grateful. I will first say it. I'll just toot my horn or toot toot1:54 our horn on the fact that I'm very grateful for the pre engagement and premarital work we did before getting married2:00 Okay.2:01 Because it really helped us, I feel like, identify what were gonna be our future problems, which were our future problems. Yeah. And so I would say we had a good2:12 awareness of some of those things. But I I think I don't even know what my biggest shock in marriage at the beginning was. What was yours? I'm I'm like,2:23 there was a few I mean, to go off that, we live in, like, a hyper awareness culture. It's like a hypertherapy, hyper but that's only half of it. I think, you know, when the rubber meets the road, which is that other2:35 50 percent, it's, you know, how difficult it can be and how much your flesh really is. If even even if you have 1 percent flesh left, you know, and, like, your sanctification process2:46 Yeah.2:47 Just how deep. It's like the Mariana trench. Just how deep that crevice can go, and your selfishness and your flesh and how much you are just focused on yourself. Mhmm. You know, the self2:59 protection, the defensiveness, the entitlement. I mean, that for me has been a huge journey of just the journey of looking in the mirror Yeah. And not veering off to look into Kate and what she's doing wrong. And3:11 and the poison I drank for the longest time in the first year, year and a half of marriage was if only Kate would change this, then our marriage would be so much3:22 better.3:23 Mhmm.3:24 And and what it did, it was it just excused him right from the table. Yeah. And there was no ownership, and there was no change, and there was no growth. And, and I just built that resentment, you know, over time,3:36 where I just looked at Kate. And, you know, we love doctor Gottman and, the Gottman Institute. Yeah. And that's where that resentment leads to contempt, and that's just pure acidity in the in the3:48 mixture of relationship. And so until I was able to stop focusing on Kate, start taking ownership for JJ and JJ only Yeah. And also repent to Kate. There was a huge moment of just listening to the bait of Satan4:00 and John Bevere after the first year and a half of marriage, where I had to I had to repent and get on my my knees and apologize to Kate for all the resentment and hatred I held towards her that I just didn't4:11 communicate, all that unresolved pain, that I held a concern. And she knew that, but I was just quiet. It was just that quiet apathy Mhmm. That just silently, you know, kills a healthy4:23 marriage. And so and it was it was a hard, hard, hard, first year or 2 for us.4:29 Yeah. How I love that. Mhmm. Thank you for your honesty. Yeah. What was kind of that? What what was the turning point for you? Like like, so many people stay so focused on their4:41 spouse and I did the same thing.4:43 We4:43 have so much control over our4:44 spouse. Exactly.4:45 My word.4:46 Yeah. I mean, I wanted Erin to be made in my image. Like, I wanted her to do certain things, you know. What for you, JJ, then, what was what was kind of the moment? Like, how'd you figure that out?4:58 It just the holy spirit and reading the beta Satan and just seeing what what resentment, what holding offense does and giving the enemy a foothold. It literally gives the foothold of5:10 the enemy into your life. And, and I just I was so I I was just the holy spirit. He tells the story there about, basically being wronged by a boss, and the holy5:22 spirit not only equips you to forgive someone in your heart, but to proactively move towards them and forgive them and also ask for repentance even if you've been the 1 who was initially wronged. Mhmm. And that just5:34 blew my mind. Yeah. And, and more importantly, you start to see the gravity of your sin, which is amazing how little, you know, it really and how much you justify it. And so I think I just realized,5:46 man, I just I think I was mortified and heartbroken the day I realized how much resentment I held towards Kate, how much I use the word hatred, and it has shock value, but it's really true. I mean, that's what it really5:57 becomes over time. Mhmm. I I hated my wife. Mhmm. This is the woman I made a covenant to love and serve and die for.6:06 Yeah.6:07 And, you know, I still went my best example is this. We still went out on date night, but I much rather have been on the golf course working out, having fun, hanging with the boys6:19 than on a date with6:20 her. Wow.6:21 And until that resentment change, and I I I forgave her, I forgave myself, I repented, you know, that joy of the relationship came back immediately. And and from that6:33 moment on, I I enjoyed spending time with my spouse again. I loved her. Yeah. It just it's amazing how much it just it's amazing how powerful our repentance can be. It just humbles you6:45 and just restores and softens your heart. And, man, I just from that moment, it's been, not always perfect, but just a just a different journey. It's like 2 marriages. I just can't explain it. It's like literally 26:57 marriages.6:58 Game changer.6:59 Yeah.7:00 Yeah. Kate, what was that like for you to have your husband come to you and confess and to repent and to even hear him say, like, I had so much resentment and hatred.7:12 Yeah. I I could I could relate because I felt like I was on my own journey of experiencing the same kind of thing. And I, so when he came to me, it7:24 wasn't shocking to me because even though he I'm an expresser, so I'm gonna tell you all the things I'm thinking and feeling and you're gonna know. JJ does not. He doesn't lead with that as much. And so even though7:36 he didn't lead with maybe his resentments towards me through time and he kind of compartmentalized them, I could tell. I could definitely tell. I knew on the date nights, like, this is forced. I7:48 knew different moments. And so but as a wife, you can't I I it's very hard. You don't wanna just say, hey, you resent me. Figure it out. Yeah. That7:59 works.8:00 Yeah.8:00 It's a it's a delicate8:02 Yeah.8:02 Dance there. And my my I felt my role in that season, was to just pray that this would that our relationship would be restored. That also that I you know, simultaneously, the8:14 Lord has been working on my heart because I have big issues with control. And so I was also trying to control him in many ways and try to get him to be the way I wanted him to be because,8:26 like we said on maybe the last episode, you know, I'm type a. He's type b. I'm like, let's run our house this way. Let's do And, you know, through time, if he doesn't have a voice and he doesn't feel valued8:39 and if he just constantly feels like I'm almost like his mommy controlling everything, like, that, of course, creates resentment in a man. And, you know, my I the advice given on our wedding8:51 the eve of our wedding on our rehearsal dinner is advice that I wish I had done a bit better the first few years of marriage, which is make a man feel like a winner and he will be a winner.9:04 But let's take the inverse. If you always make a man feel like a loser, he's going to be a loser, you know, and you're going to start seeing him as a loser. And so and then you might treat him as a loser. And9:16 that is what happened on my end. And so, of course, he had resentment. I'm not saying it was justified, but I think in my control and in kind of not being kind and not realizing9:28 how many issues with control I truly had Yeah. Justifying them, I made him really feel like a loser in many different ways. And so when he came to me and9:40 said all that, you know, there's also breaking in my spirit of, like, man, but look at what I've also done. So I think there was you know, we've been working we've, since day 1, have worked with9:52 counselors, which has been awesome. And and I think just in recent year and a half, 2 years, we really have cracked some different levels in our marriage where we understand what we10:04 call or our counselors call the disaster dance, what triggers him and how he responds and what triggers me and how I respond. And it's very predictable now. It's like we can see and understand10:15 where and when we are in that, and it's almost always the same story. So now we feel so much more equipped. And we know that if that disaster dance just continues and we don't really resolve it and call10:27 it out and show up in more kindness towards each other, it's where those roots of resentment will continue to grow or will start growing again for him or even for me. And so, yeah, I10:39 think him saying that to me and coming to me, and I will just speak to this as well as a man. Yes. He's younger than me. There has been such transformation I've seen in him in just stepping up10:51 and being more responsible and taking his, you know, the headship of our marriage, like, so seriously, which is a huge prayer of mine. And in a11:03 beautiful way, it's also made me wanna be less controlling. You know, it's like, wait. Like, this is it you know, while I probably should still not be controlling if he even if he wasn't that way,11:15 like, it's just amazing how the Lord has shifted him and really grown him and, like, put him in this place where now he's like, oh, hey. I I'm gonna do no phone an hour before bed. You should11:27 join me. And I'm like, what? You're asking me to join you in that? Like, this would used to be me asking you to join me in that. And I'm like and and then I'm still on my phone. He's like, hey. So when are you gonna get11:37 off your phone before bed? I'm like, dang. This guy is like it's like, he's really ahead of me and really, you know, somebody that I really deeply respect. And I think in the11:49 beginning of marriage, that was probably the biggest issue I had was really, like, knowing and showing him respect as a man. Mhmm.Wives Empowering Husbands: Control, Respect, and Leadership 11:58 I which is is you guys are talking, it it brings me back as a young husband because I I I it sounds like, JJ, you and and I are a lot alike in terms of I'm just12:10 very chill, kinda go with the flow, like, hey, whatever. What do you wanna do? I'm you know? And and it it was hard for me to gain a real vision for what does leadership12:22 mean? Like, we I heard that, would hear the sermons, would read that. I I couldn't figure it out, especially because, Katie, Erin Erin is has so much so much12:33 strength that12:35 That was a kind way to say it.12:37 No. It's true. That's a very honoring thing. It's a beautiful thing. But it was it was hard for me to figure that out. So Mhmm. You know, JJ, for for guys who are going, man, feel the same12:49 way. I've I've no idea. I'm not sure if she even wants me to lead. Like, how do you coach a guy who's maybe more on the laid back end of the spectrum to to13:00 really embrace13:01 social the word passive, just laid back.13:03 It's Yeah. Yeah. That's also very kind. Yeah. Well, otherwise, I'd be saying that about myself. So, you know,13:10 I'm trying13:11 to preserve some self worth here. So how do you coach a a a husband into that sort of role?13:19 Mhmm. Well, you know, the root of that is passivity. You and I both know there's a there's a strength to the easygoing, flexible and I'm not trying to demonize that. But, you know, in Genesis, we look at13:31 what happened with Adam and Eve, and Adam was given the commandment, not Eve. So he's given the responsibility to teach Eve. And then Eve, under his watch, he was there when she grabbed the the fruit. And what did he do?13:43 He watched.13:44 Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. Said nothing. He was passive. Yeah. Yeah.13:47 Mhmm. Did nothing. Right? So the Achilles heel of a man is passivity. Mhmm. Right? It's the rejection of responsibility. And that's a lot of times, you know, I would say, like you, hey. I'm just a chill,13:58 easygoing, flexible guy. But really what it was under the surface was is it was an excuse to be lazy and rejection of responsibility. Mhmm. Like, I'm a lazy guy. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I didn't I didn't want14:10 the responsibility in all the work that came with it.14:13 Yeah. Mhmm.14:13 Right. So it's just easier to chill, say, yeah. Whatever you want, honey. You know? But now now I'm just on the other end of that where yeah. I I personally I I14:25 hate the phrase happy wife, happy life because what it really is saying, like, yeah. Be that guy who doesn't care care. Let your wife make all the decisions and just chill. Right.14:35 Yeah. You14:36 know? And I mean, that's, it's a sad life to live. And so I just for me, I think the number 1 place that I would start is I think every guy needs to14:48 hear, hey. You have what it takes to be that guy that God created to be in Christ. Mhmm. Like, you've got what it takes, man. Yeah. Like, you have got what it14:59 takes in Christ to be that dude who I know underneath the surface, you feel God created you to be. And so I want you to be able to look in the mirror Mhmm. When you go to bed and say,15:11 I gave it my all. I did my best in Christ today for my family, for my job, for x y z. And until that's activated, I just I I think everything else might be some kind of performative Mhmm.15:23 Jocko, David Goggins, you know, mental, you know, theme that might be effective. Yeah. But it's all hype. Yeah. Yeah. You know, this is, like, an eternal purpose and why that God's given15:35 you.15:35 And I and I if if you go to back to Genesis 2 24, what what's always what what what I learned about that verse to to, you know, the leave15:47 and cleave. So leave you know, a man should leave his father and mother and then cleave to his wife is we really dug into that cleave means close pursuit. And and that's when I15:59 started to learn that there there has to be this initiation, this this intentional stepping up, this close pursuing her in in all these different areas. And16:11 you're right. I mean, it's easy to to be I'm just chill, but but that's an excuse because there it it can't ever replace that just that that that that role that God16:22 has has offered to us going, man, you know, you you get this beautiful way to come alongside of her and sacrifice for her, but that's gonna take16:31 Yes.16:32 Pursuing her and all these things.16:34 Yeah. So16:35 I love what you're saying.16:36 Yeah. And speaking of pursuing, you guys work with couples around intimacy and you speak about married sex. So would you be willing just to share, like, kinda some of the the bigIntimacy in Marriage: Expectations vs. Reality 16:48 issues you're seeing or the challenges that you're seeing couples are dealing with?16:53 Especially, like, young couples when it comes to married sex? Yeah. Is that what you would Yes. Clarify?16:58 Yeah.17:00 I mean, I'll be honest. Like, Kate and I, talk about our story often. We don't work a ton within married ministry. And so to be on here with you guys is is an honor. We wanna teach17:12 out of a place of maybe, excellence and authority. And so we've actually reserved teaching on marriage, you know, extensively Mhmm. To audiences because we we wanna come17:24 from authority and anointing in it. So but from what we've heard and from what we know as far as our peers is I think there's a lot of silence around it, to be honest.17:33 A lot of passivity.17:35 A lot of passivity and a lot of silence is probably what I would say.17:38 Yeah. There's a lot of silence, and I would say a lot of misunderstanding of the covenant of sex that we've seen while helping singles. Right? So you see a lot of singles that have maybe17:50 reserved themselves for marriage and or somebody who, like me, had a really extensive past and then made a recommitment or decision to, you know, not have sex till marriage,18:02 with my, you know, new with a new partner and which is what JJ and I did. But I think the problem with it and where and we should speak about our wedding night and how amazing that was because I think the18:14 problem is some people are they just have these grand expectations and, like, it's this tight knuckle, you know, thing where they don't ever talk about and connect in18:26 other ways emotionally, spiritually. All of it is what leads to a healthy, intimate relationship. And so for me and JJ, like, it was such a redemption to18:38 have our wedding night because while we we didn't go in with these grand expectations, we didn't go in, I would say, even in the first year of marriage, we're thinking like, oh, my gosh. We're gonna have sex every night,18:49 and it's gonna be the it's just like just you know?18:52 Yeah.18:52 Like, I would say I mean, there were some expectations we definitely worked through for sure. But Yeah. I would say on our wedding night, there was such a beautiful redemption that happened in19:04 that for somebody like me with a big past, it I I came to the realization, like, I actually had never experienced true covenantal sex. So even though you could say, like,19:16 I had these relations with people in the past, I'd I had never really experienced godly sex. I'd never experienced what sex is supposed to be and designed to be. And19:28 so while I healed and learned that before marriage Mhmm. It's what made our experience together on the first time the first time we did have sex, like, beat to beat so beautiful19:40 and so wonderful and so different because I was so afraid, like, oh, my gosh. Am I gonna be, like, thinking of all these other things? Or is this gonna be you know, I just and God just really used it just to be,19:51 like, the first time I had ever had sex in my actual life. And it was so beautiful and so redeeming. And I would say another thing that we've just really seen, I think,20:03 that has been a interesting part of marriage was do you wanna talk about, on our honeymoon? Kind of like the expectation thing versus reality?20:11 There you go.20:11 We vote that you do. So yes. We have a vote. We say yes. Yeah. Yeah.20:17 Yeah. So on our honeymoon, we're super open about talking about this. We, you know, I kind of had this expectation, like, JJ has never had sex before. He's gonna wanna have sex every day, like, maybe more than 1 time a20:28 day. And I'm like, okay. Like, I'm getting myself hyped up thinking about this. Like, okay. Like, this is gonna be the expectation. And I found that that was not the reality.20:40 JJ might wanna, you know, connect with me every day, potentially, but he didn't really have a desire for more than once a day. And I'm just thinking, like, this guy is gonna be, you know it's gonna be20:52 crazy. Yeah. And so Yeah. It was confusing. And so we ended up talking about it because there started to be these things in my head that started popping up of, like, oh my gosh. Am I not this, that, and the other? You21:03 know, questioning myself, rejection lies that Yeah. Really just the enemy are putting is putting there because there's you know? Or am I is something is he unsatisfied with something? Yeah. And so, eventually, when I21:14 brought it up to him, what we realized and I think you should explain this part more, like, what was going on on your side for you to feel like you were completely satisfied with21:26 just what we were doing.21:28 Yeah. Well, I mean, as a young man, a single guy, I was a virgin when we got married. You just have all these kind of just different expectations, and then you just realize when you actually encounter the real thing and21:39 the fruit of it. I I was just so satisfied by the real thing Mhmm. That I loved it, and I enjoyed it. And and I didn't have this crazy libido of 2 or 3, 4 times a day. Like,21:51 I was good. You know? Like21:53 And I think the emotional and spiritual connection.21:55 Well, that and that's what I mean. Like, the trifecta of of having an emotionally, spiritually, physically connected experience is so satisfying and overwhelming.22:07 It really makes sex just a part of the fun of the journey, but not the focal point. Mhmm. Yeah. And and if sex was everything, I'd I would have wanted it every single day and every22:19 single moment. And and that's not to demean sex. It just I think in the and I'm still that way today. The best sex we have today is when we are emotionally and spiritually unified22:31 together in harmony, and then we have the best sex ever. We still have sex as a means of reconnecting when we're not there. But for me, the best sex has always been just a byproduct of an22:42 amazing connected relationship. Mhmm. And, yeah, and there's been different times in our marriage where, I guess I'm more of the feminine or girly, you know, stereotype where in life, if we're not connected, I don't22:54 necessarily always wanna have sex.22:55 Yeah.22:55 Yeah. You know, because it's that it's it's super meaningful for me to for us to be in unity and that harmony together and and know each other and have peace. I I don't23:07 want the cheap stuff. Yeah.23:09 Yeah. And it's really good in in what what what we're also hearing is the the importance you guys place upon communication. And Yeah. Whether that's talking23:20 about just the differences between libido, talking about the differences between do you need to feel more emotionally, spiritually connected?23:28 Right.23:28 Or is sex a way that helps you to connect? I mean, whatever those conversations are,23:33 it's23:34 often where couples struggle with is they're just they're not talking. Are as you think about your marriage, are there other important conversations, you know, besidesShow more In this video 0:00 Early Marriage Surprises: Resentment and Repentance11:58 Wives Empowering Husbands: Control, Respect, and Leadership16:38 Intimacy in Marriage: Expectations vs. Reality23:39 Vital Conversations: Pain Cycles and Holy Spirit Harmony
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