Skip to content Finding Hope in the Aftermath of Domestic Violence with Karen DeArmond Gardner Oct 9 · 22 min ...more
Finding Hope in the Aftermath of Domestic Violence with Karen DeArmond Gardner
October 9, 2026 · 22 min
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Recognizing Domestic Abuse 0:04 And I'm sitting across the room from him, and I'm realizing I can't deny this anymore. I just can't deny it. And it was hard to admit. It was less hard to admit that he was abuser. It was more difficult to0:16 admit I was being abused.0:26 Karen, welcome to Focus on the Family.0:28 Oh, thank you for having me.0:29 Yeah. It's good to have you here. It is a difficult topic, and that's part of the, I guess, the, cautiousness of it. People don't quite know if they're in it. Some0:41 obviously do. Mhmm. But you're married to a man that you called Guy, you're not using his real name, obviously, for, like, 30 years. That's a long time. Tell us about how you met and the over the top affection,0:53 which is kind of the way some of these abusers will work. What was courtship like with Guy?0:59 Well, with most abusers, the guy that you meet is the charming, sweet, funny guy, and he was over the top. He was at the end of his tour in the marine corps. A friend introduced1:11 us, and we dated because I had nothing better to do for the summer. So we dated, but it was over the top. And...1:19 You said, like, he love bombed you.1:20 What is that? Yes. But I didn't know that's what it was.1:23 That's a term that people use.1:25 We use that now. It's where you're kind and you're sweet and you're funny, and he was the boy next door. Everybody loved him.1:32 Let me ask you. How long after your wedding did the guy kinda change? That this romantic, great listener, good person, all of a sudden, woah. Who is this?1:44 Well, I thought it was slow. However, once I left and and came and was with my family again, my brother let me know 1 time,1:56 hey. We saw him change immediately. But when you're in it, you don't see it. You don't know that's what's happening because on my end, it was slow, and there was no physical violence. Physical violence wasn't his2:07 go to. It was verbal and emotional and psychological. He only used physical violence when it served a purpose and which was not that often.2:17 Yeah. Well, again, you were married 30 years, and I think, you know, thinking about that, the the shame and guilt factor that comes with all of this, you process it as what am I doing wrong2:29 as opposed to what is he doing wrong.2:31 Mhmm.2:32 How did you... I guess, what did that feel like in the early years, and then how did that get arrested? Meaning, how did you get a handle, a better objective sense of what's really happening here?2:45 They make you responsible. Like, it wasn't that I took it on and went, oh, this is all my fault. But over time, he kept putting things back on me and would tell me it was my2:56 fault, and I started to believe it. Right. When? I don't know. I... There's not a there's not a a time that I can point to to say, oh, this is the day. But most women take it on. And the message that3:08 we get often is women, try harder, do more, forgive more, turn the other cheek.3:14 Well, I'm not enough.3:15 Yes. And In whatever way. And they make you feel like you're not enough. Like, it's constantly of a a destroying of your identity, of...3:28 They they pick out the... Your most vulnerable places and exploit them.3:32 Yeah. How... Let me ask you this. Explain how abusers can actually trigger compassion in their victims and kinda keep them on that3:40 hook. They, 1 of the... Almost a requirement of every abuser... And I use that word versus narcissistic. I use abuser because that's what they are. But they love women3:52 with empathy because you are going to think, oh, I want back the man that I married. What they don't know that the man that they married never existed. What they did is he took off his4:04 mask. And... But you believe you want back that man. And so you think, as a Christian, that if I pray more and if I can do more, that he4:16 will he will come back. And and that empathy kicks in because we want to help people that are broken. And4:28 it's so hard to describe how they do it because it's deception.4:33 Uh-huh.4:34 And deception is like having a film over your glasses. You can't really see clearly.4:40 You know, a common question... This even sounds insensitive, so I don't wanna say it that way, but a lot of people say, why do victims stay in those relationships? And I don't know if some of4:52 it is, to your point, like a bent, a temperament that we all possess. Like you mentioned, somebody who really is empathetic and wants to help and Mhmm. Has a, you know, the old breakdown, the5:03 golden retriever kind of heart. Uh-huh. You know, someone who is there for you, almost to the point of no matter how you treat them, they're there for you.5:11 Mhmm.5:12 So I think that plays into that a bit. But for that person, it's a little more hardcore, always picking on the engineers. But, you know, that person that sees life black and white, they're going, why... Okay. Why would5:24 that person stay in that relationship?5:25 Mhmm. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I heard that often. I would never. I'm really strong. I would never.5:31 Right.5:31 And I said, that's what we all said.5:33 Mhmm. Yeah.5:34 That's what we all said. And I know this question is very insensitive. It's a horrible question to ask. Why did you stay? However, it's an opportunity that oftentimes in Christianity, we don't know we5:46 can go because we're... We hear God hates divorce, that marriage is the ultimate goal, and we so we can't violate that. So I honestly didn't know I could5:58 go. And by the time I left, I didn't even care that God was mad at me. Be mad at me. I am not putting up with this man anymore.6:05 Yeah. Let... If I can, let's dig into that a little bit because, again, you differentiated between different abuses, like physical abuse, and then you have emotional abuse, verbal abuse, those kinds of6:17 things. Mhmm. But certainly in the context of physical abuse, I mean, you've gotta get yourself to a place of safety, especially if there's children involved as well. And that's something here at Focus we want you6:29 to know Mhmm. That that's that's plan a. Mhmm. You've gotta get to a place of safety. But in that verbal abuse context where you start laying on, you know, the the importance6:41 of enduring it because you're a Christian and6:44 Mhmm.6:44 This is the spouse I married, and so this is what I get. Mhmm. Lord, teach me what you wanna... You you hear the way I'm going here.6:52 Mhmm.6:53 How's a healthy Christian processing of this to get to a better place if you do have that abusive spouse?7:01 That's a tough... It's interesting question, and it has so many dimensions to it. Because the majority of marriages are not physically abusive.7:13 I talk to women every day. He never hits me. That they'll lead with that. He's never hit me. But he does this. He's verbally abusive. It's violence with your7:25 words. It's just... Our words give... Bring life and death.7:29 That's what the scripture says.7:31 And when someone never physically harms you but constantly controls you, whether you sleep in their bed, whether you get to eat dinner, or whether7:43 you get to drive their car, or isolate you, or all of these little things, they go silent. They don't talk to you for days. You don't7:55 understand what's happening. And so you don't know that it's even abusive until you say it out loud to somebody, and and they're like,8:07 that's not normal in a marriage.8:10 So it's almost like a fog.8:11 Oh, it is.8:12 I mean, and you're trying to discern, is this true? Is that true?8:15 Mhmm.8:16 And, Karen, as you're speaking, I'm I'm just thinking that there's kind of a a scale, and the challenge probably is figuring out, well, when does it become abusive? How do you know?8:28 Like a scale of 1 to 10?8:29 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if he crosses this boundary, it's abuse. Or if she does that, that's that's abuse.8:35 It's, there's no scale. If we believe just because someone can look good, like you meet somebody, and they're nice and they're charming and it8:47 seemed like a happy family, because we look like the happy family. But nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors. And so when she comes out and says something, it's hard for people to8:59 imagine this person that they know could ever be that way because they've never seen it.9:03 Yeah. But it's been normal for for the victim.9:05 But it's normal. And, honestly, it happens once. If it's a a repeat, and usually, it is. Now there are times Tom and I have been married, well, Well, coming up on 15 years. We've had theDistinguishing Abuse from Marital Difficulty 9:17 last year and 0.5, 2 years have been hard in our marriage. We're doing fine.9:22 That's your 2nd husband.9:23 2nd husband. 2nd husband. And he's... We've had some really hard and challenging times, but we've come through it together. We've had to work through it. There's a difference when someone... A marriage is hard and9:35 difficult because he's controlling. It determines what you wear and when you wear it and controls all the finances and would rather have you be at home, which is not a bad thing. I mean, it's9:47 what we want. We wanna raise our kids, and we wanna be at home with them. But for some, that's a way of isolation because nobody... You're not gonna interact with people that you could share what's going on in9:59 your marriage.10:00 Yeah. Very different setting. I mean, I'm thinking of that manipulation. When you talk about, you know, great constructs in marriage Mhmm. When you have children, yeah, it's wonderful for a parent to be there, to be with10:11 the kids. Somebody has to do the breadwinning, and those kinds of traditional things in a healthy, loving home are terrific. And in fact, all the social science supports that. I mean, the healthiest10:23 children generally come from those kind of loving, intact homes, and that's a good thing. But when that person, that spouse is manipulative, is10:35 domineering, all the kind of underbelly of unhealthiness, that's when you have to kinda understand what's happening. Mhmm. 30 years in, there's a turning point. You're going through a10:47 Christian magazine, I think, if I understand the story correctly, and an article caught your attention. What was that wake up call?10:53 Well, my wake up call actually happened. That was September when I read the article. My wake up call came in June in 2004, and I came home all excited because I just got... I had had a promotion after11:05 3 months, and now I got a raise and a bonus. So I was ecstatic, and he couldn't bother... Be bothered. He wasn't happy for me, wouldn't talk to me, would11:17 not would not acknowledge my existence that I had this. And in that moment, I was done.11:24 And11:24 and I talk about, you know, we always had the commercial with the easy button. And for women and domestic abuse, and I use the word abuse versus violence because it's not all physical, is you have a done button11:36 the day you just realize you're just done. And... But I didn't know what to do. And then when that magazine came, it's the 1st time anybody talked about abuse in a Christian11:48 women's magazine. And as I read that, and I'm sitting across the room from him, and I'm realizing I can't deny this anymore. I just can't deny it. And it was12:00 hard to admit. It was less hard to admit that he was abuser. It was more difficult to admit admit I was being abused.12:07 Why? What was that communicating to you?12:10 That I was weak. A weak person would have never survived what I survived.12:14 Mhmm.12:15 I was stronger than I knew. However, I did not know how to leave, and it wasn't until later in the year when my mom came for a visit that she was then 72 and12:27 rescued me. And we left... I left the day after Christmas.12:31 Take us through that day. I mean, again, you have to build up the courage to say, I'm seeing this correctly. Mhmm. I can only imagine the self talk and all that, you know, this I am right. Mhmm. He is wrong. What was the12:42 escape plan, and how was it executed, and what happened?12:45 Well, a day after Christmas happened to be a Sunday. So we were going to church. We'd already been talking about going to church. So he expected the car to start and all this, and so that was12:57 our plan. And...12:58 It was just you and your mother?13:00 Just me and my mom. Okay. And so the next morning, got up, loaded everything in the car. We didn't drive away because the battery was dead. So we had So13:09 you went after the car, started it on your escape, and it didn't start.13:12 It didn't start. So I I was ready to yank out the... I mean, I was yanking out the suitcase and I was losing my mind and his window is right here, so right up into13:24 where I could not make too much noise in my13:27 So you're full of fear.13:28 Oh, I was so afraid. I knew what he was capable of. I mean, he'd been telling me for years, even though, again, physical violence wasn't his go to, it was used when needed, but I also knew13:40 what he was capable of. And so if you go back to that question, why did she stay or why didn't you go get help? He was in law enforcement. Oh, that's a joke. When he's in law enforcement, all your friends13:52 are in law enforcement. You know, who are you gonna go to? Yeah. And so that was also a challenge. And so at this point, you know, we we left14:04 the house and called... Mom called the tow truck driver, and I just walked up to his truck and said, I'm running away from home, and you need... You cannot wake him up. And she she went back14:16 to the house with him to bring the car over because I couldn't go back there.14:21 So he jump started your car and you got away?14:23 He jumped and we drove away?14:25 Well, that's the reason you even do the program here because people need to think through what situation they're in. The other side of this can be someone who's, going through this too quickly. Like you said earlier14:37 with your 2nd husband, Tom, there are just marital difficulties you fight through and you fight for each other, etcetera. So you you've got to really take a healthy assessment of what we're dealing with here, and make14:49 sure that you are accurate, that you are being abused. And that's where that, if I could say, double clutching probably occurs. Right? Am I really in that spot?15:00 Yeah. But even through all the hard, Tom didn't try to destroy me.15:04 Correct.15:04 He didn't tear me down. He didn't try to control me, and he he doesn't, you know, make fun of me or pull at my vulnerabilities.15:16 Consistently all the time. Yeah.15:18 He he did not do that. A matter of fact, a couple years ago, he came out of his office, and he goes, I just realized that what I did when we were dating15:30 is what abusers do. And I had to pause on that for a 2nd. And I said, no. Actually, they mimic you. They mimic authenticity and genuineness and15:42 character. And because Tom did kinda do some of the things that my ex did, except Tom was just genuine. He's a good listener.15:54 He loves people. He's an honest man. He's full of integrity. Right.15:59 So there's margin there for not being perfect.16:01 There's margin there absolutely because he's not perfect. Neither am I. Thank goodness. But there's a difference that when you go through difficult times that you don't attack 1 another. Have we had moments like16:13 that? Yeah. Then we come back, and he's the 1st to apologize. When we got married, Tom is the 1. He served me long before I could serve him.16:23 Mhmm.16:24 He he would remind me I'm not your ex husband.16:28 And Oh, I'm sure. There's a reflexes.16:30 Oh, yeah.16:31 The words16:32 Though...16:32 Yes. Said to you. What are you saying to me?16:35 Yes.16:35 You sound just like16:36 my former husband. But he... It was... There is a difference when you're going through hard things versus a hard or difficult marriage where he is consistently being abusive. That happens16:48 often the moment they say I do and they go into the hotel room, it's like a different guy shows up.16:55 Right. And so in that context, I mean, all this has happened. Again, the book is important to read, and it gives you more of an indicator of, is this me? But in that context, you got across that...The Turning Point and Escape 17:07 What I would describe maybe as the finish line of all this, to forgive that person.17:12 Mhmm.17:13 You know, when you look at all the circumstances in life, I'm thinking these families that experience a murder. You know, however it happens, and then for Christian families that experience that, how17:25 do they find forgiveness for the perpetrator that took the life of 1 of their loved ones? I mean, I have not had that experience. My heart goes out to that person. I'm not sure how I would handle that, to17:37 be honest. I would hope I'd handle it well. But this is also a very difficult thing to forgive someone of, of 30 years of abuse. Mhmm. How did you get there?17:47 Well...17:47 Or did you?17:49 There's a couple different answers to that. Number 1, when I 1st came out because I was being a good Christian girl, I thought I was supposed to forgive, and I did. And I realized later, I didn't.18:02 And18:02 Explain that so we understand our own unforgiveness.18:06 The, what I've learned about forgiveness is that... I love the way Matthew says it. I can't remember the exact place, but he's talking about forgiveness. And it18:18 says, if you refuse to forgive from your heart... And all of a sudden, I went on a pause. Because we are not refusing to forgive. But you can't forgive from your18:30 heart until you deal what's in your heart. To forgive somebody without dealing with the pain, acknowledging the pain, sitting in the pain, and getting some healing,18:41 forgiveness becomes a byproduct of your healing because you realize you... This person doesn't get to have any more space in your life. And so when I realizedForgiveness After Trauma 18:53 that forgiveness, I've watched it come naturally with women. But to just forgive, it's not... Some people like to say it's an act of the will. Well, it is.19:05 If Tom and I have an off moment, we forgive each other. We don't say the words. We just do it without even thinking. But when you have this kind of trauma, you have to deal with what happened to19:17 you. You have to deal with the pain and the trauma before you can release somebody, because that's what forgiveness is, is releasing them. But you're not refusing. And that's the key.19:29 There are people that absolutely, I will never forgive you. You know, we've heard it in the movies and TV shows. The point is is we're not refusing. We just can't.Redemption and Hope for Healing 19:41 You you just19:42 I mean, I get it.19:43 It's it's... You just can't, and yet it's 1 of the most beautiful things that god has given us. But we can't allow anybody to tell us when it's time for us to forgive somebody.19:54 But keep moving toward that,19:56 God. Absolutely.19:57 Yeah. I appreciate that. Right at the end here, Tom was your knight in shining armor. Did he redeem all of the male gender for you? He20:06 he did. It's, I actually had somebody ask me, how do you know when you're in love? And I said, you know, I really didn't know, but I can tell you now. I did not know what love was20:18 until I met Tom Gardner.20:20 Wow. That says it all.20:21 And so because that's... He showed me love. And it actually... And even though I would tell you I love God, over my healing, my love for God has deepened in a20:33 way, and I see him in a way that I never saw him before.20:39 Yeah.20:39 And so Tom is the 1 that really showed this is what love really looks like.20:45 Karen, this has been so powerful. I just wanna say thank you. I'm sorry you went through those things that you went through, but praise God that you understood intellectually,20:56 emotionally what you're going through, and you made changes. And it sounds like the Lord has blessed you with Tom and that that has now been a very good thing in your life, to feel loved for the 1st time. Mhmm.21:08 And that's a that's a blessing, so that is good. If you're in that spot where you're not sure or you're very sure that you're in an abusive situation, call us here at Focus on the Family. We have caring Christian21:20 counselors who can talk with you, help you to sort out if you're seeing things correctly, provide other information and other resources, including additional counseling in your area. So get in touch21:32 with us, and let us be the sounding board for you. Yeah. Get in touch.21:36 Our number is 800, the letter a, and the word family. And, we do have copies of Karen's book, Hope for Healing from Domestic Abuse, Reaching for God's Promise of Real Freedom. Ask about that when you21:48 get in touch. Our website is linked in the description below.21:53 Karen, again, thank you so much for being with us. Sorry for all the pain, but, thank you for the bouquet that you now experience and truly feeling loved.22:01 Yes. Thank you.22:03 And thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daley. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.In this video 0:00 Recognizing Domestic Abuse9:10 Distinguishing Abuse from Marital Difficulty17:00 The Turning Point and Escape18:48 Forgiveness After Trauma19:40 Redemption and Hope for Healing
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